CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[hunter1723]

Also, has the member dadvocate been verified as a family member or friend of CW?

 

[gitana1]

Seriously. Is this considered "plain language"? Maybe if you have an advanced degree.

No wonder CA is free.

Oh shoot. I thought it was!!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm also in the 'CW murdered the whole family' camp, his excuse for killing SW is pretty pathetic, imo. As others have mentioned, Christian Longo and even the movie Shutter Island springs to mind.

The theory CW planned this in advance after having 6 weeks of bachelorhood is a good one. With a new love and SW being too much woman for him to handle, a sociopathic brain would easily choose annihilating the family over allowing them to live and enjoy life without him. He's the centre of their world in his mind, if there's no 'him', they cease to exist. Many posters have already brought up the Narcissistic Personality Disordered thought patterns/behaviours, Christian Longo was diagnosed with this disorder and tried to use it in his defence but it was rejected.

One theory I have which might have been introduced does relate to CW killing in a rage. One of the daughters may have been hard to manage that night, hyped up after the birthday party like many children can be, he became enraged and hurt her in some way, she may have screamed and he strangled her. Then, he decided his other daughter had to die (as in the Jeffery MacDonald case) and his pregnant wife, SW, when she returned home.

Sticking with the rage attack theory, it could apply to SW, when she arrived home late, they had a spat, CW became so enraged he strangled her, then, cold bloodedly chose to murder his daughters and dispose of them in known territory as many killers do, and hope he could get away with it.

A poster said CW is innocent until proven guilty, but that's not entirely correct as he's confessed to killing SW and their unborn child. In his scenario, SW killed their daughters and he retaliated by killing her. SW spent 6 weeks with her daughters without him, she was ready to move on, he was too, but without the baggage.

CW's story doesn't hold water but like every accused person he deserves to have his claims tested. I doubt evidence will be back him up because this an afterthought, he's trying to lessen his jail term AND be a hero. This childish thinking is typical if you've followed other trials like Jeffrey MacDonald or Henri Van Breda, they're all 'heroes' who expect to be believed and will hold onto their fairy tale till the end of their days.
JMO

 

[DexterMorgan]

As of right now I don't believe there is any evidence out there that shows who killed the kids. We know CW has been charged, however there is no evidence either way. You are all speculating right now.

The state has the evidence which will be provided to his lawyers during the discovery process. There's tons of evidence that we just are not privy to at the moment.

 

[cottonweaver]

Also, has the member dadvocate been verified as a family member or friend of CW?

He hasn't said that that he is.
Posters have questioned that he might be leading to some coy answers.

I'm not seeing it myself for a number of reasons which I can't say due to ToS but I think I've read every post.

 

[mtnlites]

I watched it for the first time the other night. Eerily similar and COLD. Except Longo fled. I wonder if he’s ever told “why.” Probably no reason except being psychopath.

As far as I know, he still insists it was her. I wonder what CW's endgame was. Play grieving widower or betrayed spouse for a few months to make it look good and then move on? Some people have said that they are surprised he didn't kill himself, too, but I'm not. IMO it wasn't just that he wanted out of the marriage/family bur that he wanted the slate wiped totally clean. Psychologically, after a divorce his family would still be out there; he would still have ties and responsibilities. I think he wanted to pretend they'd never happened at all, that that had never been his life. He couldn't go back in time and change the past but he COULD ensure that they disappeared now. Not quite as good, but a similar effect.

When I was a crisis intervention specialist, I once worked with a woman (adult) whose father had tried to kill her. She said that he hadn't been satisfied to sever all ties with her, for him to be "happy" he needed to be able to pretend she'd never happened. That couldn't work since he occasionally passed her in town, people mentioned updates, etc

 

[pamelado2]

As of right now I don't believe there is any evidence out there that shows who killed the kids. We know CW has been charged, however there is no evidence either way. You are all speculating right now.

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence.
He's the only one who could lead LE to the bodies.
He admitted he placed them in the oil tank.
He killed their mother.
He hid all 3 bodies.
He didn't call for help.
He lied repeatedly for days.

If his story is believable (my wife was murdering my children so I killed her and hid all 3 bodies) why has something like this never happened before? When there is a natural reaction to an experience, you hear the same experiences repeated over and over. Name a case where a murderer was caught in the act by someone and that person killed the murderer and disposed of both bodies.

 

[gitana1]

IIRC and if I understood correctly, his lawyer said that he was waiving the right to have that within xx days, but withheld the right to have one, but wasn't asking for it yet. They said it had something to do with the defense team not yet having all the discovery in order to make a decision.

I am of the understanding that the next hearing is the probable cause hearing in November? If that waiving of what you're talking about ends up with him deciding he does want the right that he waived to have within xx days, does that mean there'd be another hearing before the probable cause one in November? I hope you understand what I'm talking about, because I don't know all these terms, but I do remember the bit about waiving something.

What is CO's law for releasing the autopsy report to the public? Sometimes even if the law allows for the release they still seem to hold it for trial?

Yes. The probable cause hearing. I call it a prelim.

I don't know the law as to when it would be released. I will research.

 

[Bluefield]

How much do we know about CW's friends, past relationships, family relationships, work relationships (other than the AP)?

I expect the investigators will find a ton of evidence on his computer that will answer a lot of these questions.
Also, I suspect they'll find he deleted a lot of correspondence between him and numerous women, and that one affair he has admitted to will be one of many.

 

[Stunned]

Hmmmm....

I don’t know why exactly, but I was speculating/thinking he had been seeing the woman for a while but you make me wonder now...

I’m kind of amazed he didn’t blame in on the side piece!

 

[Waterdog]

I don't think it shows he hated them. Just that he doesn't have normal human emotion associated with them because his disposal is in no way associated with any burial rites or the psychological need of a parent to commemorate their children or lay them to rest with respect and love.

You pose an intriguing possibility but I'm not really feeling it. Even though that was his job. I mean what if his job was sewer maintenance or garbage man. Or waste treatment. If he worked one of those jobs and disposed of his precious children's bodies in a dump or sewer or sewage waste containment pond or whatever, would it be less psychologically abhorrent because he worked there? IMO, not really.

Rites and attitudes surrounding the death of children are very psychological and meaningful.

I think he simply did what he felt was expedient and could help him hide what he did. He didn't care about them so he didn't have any nostalgia surrounding their disposal.

Convenience being #1.

 

[Stunned]

I’m kind of amazed he didn’t blame in on the side piece!

If she came by to console him through ....separation..her fingerprints would be in that house.

 

[Boodles]

I’m kind of amazed he didn’t blame in on the side piece!

Well keep in mind that we’re only on version 2 of his “story.” Much more could follow!

 

[mickey2942]

Oh shoot. I thought it was!!

Case in point. From someone who has a J.D. degree, that is "plain language".

And to many people in the United States, it is beyond obfuscation. And yet to ask for clarity, a person in the court, raises their eyebrows, "well, that is CLEAR". Uh, okay, go slink in corner, with my obvious obtuseness.

 

[Waterdog]

With my ex, he is a total gaslighter. It was always my fault and now it’s always his wife’s fault. He is so intense that I started to question everything and think that he must be right, it is my fault. He is an innocent victim and the circumstances aren’t his fault. I see him do it to her (she shows me their texts) and it makes me sick.

He tells his coworkers and family about how awful he is treated and will demonstrate by showing text messages his wife sends but not share the context so it makes him look mistreated. He also tries this in court (he represents himself, always) and it never goes well.

Gaslighters are so unbearable to be around and have relationships with. I have a sibling like this. They are so explosive and abusive it damages your psyche after awhile.

 

[Medstudies]

We see often where a wife’s death has been ruled an accident. Then years later another wife mysteriously dies, often under the same type of circumstances...then they exhume the previous wife’s body and lo and behold, it wasn’t an accident after all...just noting ftr sometimes these nutjobs repeat these crimes (not necessary full FAs). So who knows, if he got away with it, and the mistress joined him, for all we know se could have been next one day.

Example, Drew Peterson, right?

Okay, I may regret posting this - a relative of mine married a sibling of

Lowell Amos - Wikipedia

I was young, so I only have few memories of interactions with him. - but over the years I have heard all the stories rehashed.

That aside, my family has spent the past week discussing CW.

Our basic summary: L.A.’s kryptonite: greed and sloppiness. CW’s kryptonite: SW’s amazing friend NUA - and he is a moron.

 

[CM0709]

I am still in shock that the trial for Nubia Barahona still has no trial date. That murder happened in February, 2011. Gabriella Doolin, still no trial date, she was killed November, 2015.

I hope that the judicial system in Colorado works faster than the ones above.

I don't, jail is way worse than prison. In prison you might get a tv go to the yard workout play games enroll in classes have a job. Jail is usually locked in a cell you get out at specific times to group watch a tv if they have a tv, socialize, eat etc. you get commissary in both but prison has a much wider selection. He will be held in jail until trial and sentencing also the longer he has to sit and think maybe it will make him plead guilty I highly doubt it but ask any criminal they would rather do their time in prison than sit in wait in jail.

 

[pocketaccent]

I think it was multiple pillow cases and also a sheet in the trash. What I’m confused about is it didn’t sound like these were part of the bedding in a pile on the floor of her bedroom.

Me too. It also looks like CW threw the pillow cases and a top sheet in the trash on Aug 15, the day LE found them and the day he was arrested. Though it may mean that CW threw them away right after the murder, just never took out the trash since then.

 

[bleuboy]

It's bad enough that CW could dispose his girls in that way, but he was also willing to deprive both families of a chance to say goodbye, not having a place to go an grieve and be constantly worrying and wondering what happened to them all IF he'd have got what he wanted and they were never found.

IMO he thought of no-one, not even his parent. But then again he was thinking about HIMSELF wasn't he.

 

[esmerelda]

When I first saw the initial facts in the case, I suspected he MIGHT be involved. With the door locked from the inside, and the belongings still there, and the car in the garage...but I wasn't certain. Maybe she left with someone?

But after seeing him smirking, and doing Duper's Delight, in all his glory, there was no doubt left for me. I was certain he annihilated his family. That's one reason that his version of events seems so phony. If he had been weepy and emotional and obviously grief stricken, then I could consider the possibility that he came upon his wife, killing their babies. But after seeing his smiling, casual, confident interview, where he was modeling his fave t-shirt, and sounding like he was at a neighborhood BBQ, and not being interviewed about his missing pregnant wife and 2 baby girls---no way.

THIS!!! So much this, it's why i was so insistent on the shirt thing. If my family was missing I can hardly believe if a reporter interrupted our interview to ask about a shirt my reaction would be so... I questioned myself if I wouldn't have gotten nasty with them because I think I would have if I was distraught. But he was proud to show it off! His whole demeanor changed, "yeah, I'm tired of talking about this missing persons stuff"WHAT???