CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[gitana1]

Agreed because the idea of a baby killer is so repugnant to all in society that admitting to this would certainly weigh in at sentencing time. He is using our natural instinct to protect children to his advantage hoping we would relate to why he killed their mother. Another sign he does not have normal human feeling as his actions say the opposite. He never attempted to revive his kids just kill their mother. Nonsensical.

You say it so succinctly! Love it.

 

[Stunned]

Or as mentioned wasn’t eager about raising someone else’s kids.

Maybe she wasn’t getting enough of his time and he realized this.

Ohhhhh, well she will have a lot less of his time now!

 

[BingoBongo]

Without going into analyzing, every interview of him seemed...off...to me. His words didn't seem "normal" for a person who's immediate family was missing, and potentially in danger. His demeanor didn't fit. His mannerisms didn't fit.

Nothing fit what a normal personal would expect to witness from a person who is concerned about their missing loved ones.

Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, which is EXACTLY how I felt when listening to a narcissist/sociopath lie.

 

[katydid23]

Whatever people may think about a woman who has an affair with a married man, she may very well be a victim here as well. Dragged into a horrible situation, that no one will ever forget. Her career at work may be destroyed, her situation in the community, affected.

Let's keep the focus on the criminal.

She might be very young and naive. I got sucked into a relationship with my boss, when I was young and dumb. He told me all the usual lies, about his wife being mean and cold and distant. I totally bought it all because I was so inexperienced. Embarrassing now, to think I could have been so stupid.

 

[Jewels53]

Or as mentioned wasn’t eager about raising someone else’s kids.

Maybe she wasn’t getting enough of his time and he realized this.

Here is a case of a father killing his 3 yr old son Brendan Creato because his girlfriend claimed he wasn't spending enough time with her. The father claimed the boy was kidnapped. He ended up strangling his own son and leaving by a river.

GUILTY - NJ - Brendan Creato, 3, found dead in Cooper River Park, 13 Oct 2015

 

[gitana1]

I’ve been thinking a lot about how anyone could do something like this to their children, and realized when I ask that question I am putting myself in that situation. I’d never do it. It came to me that once someone crosses that line, whether it’s to have an affair or murder their children, they’re different than me. What was not okay before is now okay to them. There are no more lines marking unacceptable behavior. Whatever it takes to get what they want and need is okay for them.

Right. Which is exactly the point. How abnormal people might act if they have crossed the lines of human decency and committed crimes, as opposed to how normal, innocent people behave, that is what jurors are allowed to consider when using common sense to analyze the evidence and determine whether there exists not doubt, but "reasonable" doubt.

 

[Chelly]

Did you think of any other cases where innocent parents threw their babies away like garbage instead of calling the police and giving them a proper burial, even though they didn’t kill them?

Exactly! Any logical, reason-minded person knows that a father who disposes of his children in this manner, is responsible for their death. All evidence and circumstance point it it.

 

[katydid23]

Without going into analyzing, every interview of him seemed...off...to me. His words didn't seem "normal" for a person who's immediate family was missing, and potentially in danger. His demeanor didn't fit. His mannerisms didn't fit.

Nothing fit what a normal personal would expect to witness from a person who is concerned about their missing loved ones.

Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, which is EXACTLY how I felt when listening to a narcissist/sociopath lie.

When I first saw the initial facts in the case, I suspected he MIGHT be involved. With the door locked from the inside, and the belongings still there, and the car in the garage...but I wasn't certain. Maybe she left with someone?

But after seeing him smirking, and doing Duper's Delight, in all his glory, there was no doubt left for me. I was certain he annihilated his family. That's one reason that his version of events seems so phony. If he had been weepy and emotional and obviously grief stricken, then I could consider the possibility that he came upon his wife, killing their babies. But after seeing his smiling, casual, confident interview, where he was modeling his fave t-shirt, and sounding like he was at a neighborhood BBQ, and not being interviewed about his missing pregnant wife and 2 baby girls---no way.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

In one of the court appearances, maybe the first one, the judge said that CW couldn't have visitors other than his lawyer? A similar restriction to that, anyway. Though I'm not sure how long that restriction was supposed to be in place.

But CW was free from the Monday to the Thursday? Would he have contacted his mistress in those four days? I would be interested to know what, if anything, he said to her in that time.

I don’t believe he was out of site of LE. AT THAT POINT there was more than enough evidence to bring him in for questioning.

 

[Chelly]

Not the cases you cite but years ago there used to be another forum that I frequented called CrimeNews2000 which was a forum such as this but they also had a weekly Monday night chat with the regulars that followed the Martha Moxley investigation. To our surprise the DEFENSE attorney was a frequent visitor to those chats and to his benefit actually identified himself to make his prescence known. It is a long story but many were invested in this case and there were several people who "appeared" with curiously knowledgable insight into the inner workings of the Skakel family even creating their own websites stating Skakel was innocent.

So to answer your question is it common to have people take the side of the accused, yes it is. At least in the Moxley case there was a THREAD of reasonable doubt if someone was desperately searching for a reason to let Michael Skakel walk. To date this case doesn't have it. Defense has their work cut out for them. IMO the only way is to make wild accusations against SW which can and will be negated by a long list of people she knows getting on thestand to testify none of it was anything they ever witnessed Shannan do or say. It won't work, not in this case with this woman.

Excellent response. Glad you are here.

 

[Bluefield]

Like some, I suspect Watts killed the girls before his wife returned. Unlike most, however, I don't think he planned to kill them. I suspect he lost his temper with one daughter and fatally injured her, and when the second daughter was incosolable he killed her in a panic.
In contrast, I think he planned to kill Shannan the moment she walked through the door (and she quite possibly never knew her girls were dead as a result) because he knows she wouldn't have forgiven him or believed any story he could possibly come up with to explain why her girls were dead/not there.

 

[Chelly]

great post.

let's not forget Occam's Razor, simplest solution tends to be the correct one. The gap in logic in his actions is the givaway, no he wasn't trying to protect his wife's reputation by throwing the children in a vat of quite warm crude oil, similar to what we have to scrape off our feet at some Florida beaches. Simplest solution he killed them all and tried to cover his azz.

This is indeed the only logical answer.

 

[Ronso]

For many, even subconsciously, attractive men are not heinous and if it's proven they are, their heinousness must've been provoked by abuse, or something somebody (i.e. wife, girlfriend, someone) did.

The Matthew Hoffman case is the one that brought me to Websleuths and I lost count on how many times his perceived attractiveness made people "surprised" at his guilt. There were theories that he must've been abused, or whatever. Even when an ex surfaced and there was proven history of DV with him.

I've seen the same with women suspects too.... like attractive people are incapable of crime. Like every murderer/monster should look the part.

 

[mickey2942]

When is he likely to face trial ? Will it be a number of years away ?

I am still in shock that the trial for Nubia Barahona still has no trial date. That murder happened in February, 2011. Gabriella Doolin, still no trial date, she was killed November, 2015.

I hope that the judicial system in Colorado works faster than the ones above.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I'm not worried he will be found not guilty. I'm worried about a hung jury or two. I think there will be justice. But I also think we are in for a horror show of a case that her family may not be able to endure.

I hope they have a lot of direct support and people helping them survive. Psychologists giving them tools to get through each day. Etc.

And SW's family and friends don't need to be made to feel even worse than they already do!

 

[katydid23]

Yeah, that won’t be the case.

Unless he set it up that way, as an insurance policy...

 

[hunter1723]

I don’t believe we have any evidence that CW killed the children. We also don’t have any evidence that SW killed them. But I believe the jury will be presented with a lot to bring reasonable doubt into question. IMO

As of right now I don't believe there is any evidence out there that shows who killed the kids. We know CW has been charged, however there is no evidence either way. You are all speculating right now.

 

[gitana1]

Gitana, do you think they’ll hold back the autopsy reports and causes of death until trial or will that be released soon?

I don't know. I mean most of that stuff comes out in pretrial hearings. Did he waive that?

 

[pocketaccent]

Pardon the interruption: Were there members here who supported Casey Anthony , Scott Peterson & Jody Arias during their trials ? I was not a member here then.

It mystifies me seeing People support CW. I just can't imagine.

Arias case was the reason I joined WS in 2013. I didn't see anyone supporting her. But we still argued and debated on numerous matters and subjects, many times in a super heated fashion that moderators threaten to shut the thread down if we didn't behave.

I think this case can become as complex and ugly as the Arias case, if not more.

 

[Amonet]

I don't know. I mean most of that stuff comes out in pretrial hearings. Did he waive that?

IIRC and if I understood correctly, his lawyer said that he was waiving the right to have that within xx days, but withheld the right to have one, but wasn't asking for it yet. They said it had something to do with the defense team not yet having all the discovery in order to make a decision.

I am of the understanding that the next hearing is the probable cause hearing in November? If that waiving of what you're talking about ends up with him deciding he does want the right that he waived to have within xx days, does that mean there'd be another hearing before the probable cause one in November? I hope you understand what I'm talking about, because I don't know all these terms, but I do remember the bit about waiving something.

What is CO's law for releasing the autopsy report to the public? Sometimes even if the law allows for the release they still seem to hold it for trial?