CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[molly1255]

It's hard to recognize unless you've lived with and experienced it, and even then it's near impossible for anyone with empathy to wrap their brains around the reality of it.

I feel confident SW had to have seen signs, but maybe unable to realize the seriousness of it. Often victims blame themselves thinking they must be doing something wrong.

It's very sad.

Moo

My thoughts are that she probably did see some signs in him that were "off" that made her uncomfortable, but may not have been to realize what it all meant.

I agree with you. That is why the Scott Peterson case fascinated so many people. Add in that she was pregnant and it was Christmas Eve made this story so relatable to everyone. They were all sitting around enjoying their own celebrations with family and friends and this comes on the news. Pretty American girl next door and her dashing husband expecting their first child... They had the American dream and somehow it was robbed from them. First instinct is to look at the husband. Noooo, he couldn't be guilty, yet he was absolutely guilty and we still can't understand why.

I agree and what appears to be the common thread between the case of SP and CW is that they were both actively engaged in secret on-going affairs.

This means that they were not only betraying their spouses, they were also lying to their spouses. SP definitely spend marital money in order to continue his affair with AF, and CW likely did the same.

IMO, this kind of behavior is based in entitlement. It is extremely unfair, selfish and it is also cruel. I believe a fairly good argument could be made that before they were murdered, both LP and SW were victims of domestic abuse, and because they were intentionally kept in the dark about what was really going on with their husbands, they were denied an opportunity to take steps to protect themselves, their unborn children, and in SW's case, her daughters.

All JMO.

 

[margarita25]

Oh my gosh I just remembered something...there was this debate going on in CO surrounding the legislated privacy of the prison locations of certain inmates in high profile cases, ARS is one of them, the Aurora theater shooter was another one, iirc. Jessica Ridgeway’s family is not entitled to know in which prison he is residing, to which they were opposed...It was a big deal with the Governor, etc,...

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I’m really amazed the woman’s name hasn’t been leaked. This makes me think it was brand new. Or, anyone who knew is still so horrified by his end game.

I do think it was brand new, in the 3 weeks that SW's friend noticed he was distancing himself from the kids and his strange attitude.

 

[searchinGirl]

I’m really amazed the woman’s name hasn’t been leaked. This makes me think it was brand new. Or, anyone who knew is still so horrified by his end game.

I think before she gets named, LE will need to have evidence that links her to the crime. She may have helped him with knowledge. She may think she is smarter than everyone. She may be thinking her involvement is remote enough that they can’t establish a forensic link.

 

[margarita25]

Is CW allowed visitors in protective custody? Has the AP visited? Maybe LE urged her to...

 

[SumnerRain]

I’m really amazed the woman’s name hasn’t been leaked. This makes me think it was brand new. Or, anyone who knew is still so horrified by his end game.

I have a theory her social media and online presence is being actively scrubbed. His co-workers may have been told to keep their mouths shut or face defamation charges. JMO.

 

[CapitalBat]

So sorry, that is true. But I will be honest, a Parent, especially a Mother, will have an absolute visceral experience and reaction to seeing the oil tanks, and small children covered with crude oil.

I would have a visceral reaction to that, as would I think any decent human being. While I would never be haunted by imagining my own child in those circumstances, I would be haunted by the thought of my nieces and nephews treated that way - after being brutally murdered (I consider strangulation particularly brutal and heinous, just a personal thing) nevertheless. I believe any compassionate human on that jury will be sick with grief over those photos, regardless of what their family looks like.

I hear you about juries, and attorneys! In this case I feel really confident any jury will return a guilty verdict* due to significant physical evidence that hasn’t been released. I hope, of course, he pleads guilty and spares their family and friends from the torment of a trial, but I don’t think he’s ever walking away from what he did.

*This opinion subject to change as new information is released

 

[kkdj]

I wonder if the gf recently found out he was married with children and threatened to cut off the relationship with CW so he got rid of them.

 

[Layla123]

Great post!

MOO in the case of OJ = OJ was the all American hero. Mr. nice guy. Mr. Cool. The case followed the horrible treatment of Rodney King and other injustices of black Americans. Putting Mark Furman on the stand without first disclosing his history of blatant derogatory speech killed his testimony.

CW will be damned if he does/doesn’t take the stand. He is a known liar and cheat. I’m sure the state will have a long list of witnesses in friends/family/neighbors/coworkers who will destroy him and prove he murdered his children and wife.

He cannot escape from: All the interviews. All the evidence. Lie. After. Lie. Laughing. Grinning.

I wish I could be there to seem them take this trash out.

I think if C.W. wants people to believe his side of the story, he’s going to have to get on the stand to convince the jury “how it happened.” There’s too much physical evidence against him.

 

[margarita25]

I have a theory her social media and online presence is being actively scrubbed. His co-workers may have been told to keep their mouths shut or face defamation charges. JMO.

I can only imagine the outlash against her if her SM was open. People are nuts. Who knows what one might do.

 

[margarita25]

I wonder if the gf recently found out he was married with children and threatened to cut off the relationship with CW so he got rid of them.

Or as mentioned wasn’t eager about raising someone else’s kids.

Maybe she wasn’t getting enough of his time and he realized this.

 

[molly1255]

I do think it was brand new, in the 3 weeks that SW's friend noticed he was distancing himself from the kids and his strange attitude.

I don't know if the affair was brand-new, but I won't be surprised if LE finds a history of secret affairs CW had throughout the marriage. JMO.

 

[Amonet]

Before CW's arrest, I had a strong suspicion from his words in the media interviews and from the circumstances of the 'disappearances' that CW might turn out to be responsible.

I also thought maybe he might turn out to have a history of emotional abuse/gaslighting of Shanann in private while acting the part of the perfect loving husband in front of friends and family.

I'm wondering, though, how common is it for a gaslighter to not just gaslight their partner, but also relate stories to friends or relatives who live distantly in which the gaslighted partner is presented as the gaslighter? Or would a gaslighter be saying to distant friends and relatives that they love the partner and say positive things about the partner?

I don't know for a fact that personality fits CW, so I'm not accusing him of it, more trying to understand possible personality traits in someone who could commit a crime like this.

But thinking of that kind of gaslighting personality, wouldn't they also tend to be people who might do that and then have affairs and want to break up the marriage without looking like the bad guy, so they use techniques like that to paint their partner in a bad light and then go for sole custody of children... regardless of whether they truly *want* the children and more out of spite for their partner?

Obviously CW hasn't gone for separation/divorce/custody fight in the courts or anything like that. But he has minimized his part and blamed Shanann for the girls' murders, in what might be a ploy for playing the victim in a similar way to partners (male or female) who pull that trick that I'm talking about?

 

[searchinGirl]

I wonder if the gf recently found out he was married with children and threatened to cut off the relationship with CW so he got rid of them.

I think it’s entirely possible she helped him. But regardless, I think the motive is all about the AP.

 

[margarita25]

I wonder if the gf recently found out he was married with children and threatened to cut off the relationship with CW so he got rid of them.

Another thing, kkdj, he scrubbed his SM a week before the murders...didn’t want him with his family on SM??

 

[gitana1]

There's no difference. I'm not quite sure why we're supposed to treat the word of a defendant/suspect exactly the same as the word of law enforcement and make it applicable only in certain cases.

You know I want to defend our mods here. They seem to run a tight rope of trying to enable us to have real discussions that aren't just one-sided preaching to the choir. And that's cool.

And they don't appear to be saying that we have to treat the words for a defendant the same as info from LE. From what I can tell they seem to be saying that we should be allowed to respectfully debate the allegations and apparent defense and propose theories based on both. That seems fair, right?

Sadly there appears to be some taking advantage of that. I'm not a mod but I think, for example, it's probably okay to say something like, "Is it possible that SW suffered some mental health issues or extreme anger issues that would enable her to react as CW claims? Here is what I have found...".

But instead there apparently have been definitive allegations that she looks insane or was on drugs so she must have done this? That kind of stuff seems cruel, irrational and probably against TOS. I would just report such a post and not engage.

So much better for the blood pressure! And it enables us to engage in meaningful conversation without having to react to something ridiculous and ugly.

 

[Amonet]

Extending the thoughts/questions in my last post. CW has, according to LE, been having an affair.

What I heard from Shanann's friends in the video where NT and AT are on the park bench talking to the reporter, was AT saying that maybe Shanann had thought she might be seeing signs of an affair but was talking herself out of believing it?

Sometimes, a gaslighter will make their partner feel crazy, and even guilty, for suspecting signs of an affair?

What if that was happening to Shanann, and some of that guilt-tripping might well make someone in that position end up coming across as excessively gushing in praise for their spouse as an apology for being suspicious and not trusting their partner, who's convinced them that this is a false accusation?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

You know I want to defend our mods here. They seem to run a tight rope of trying to enable us to have real discussions that aren't just one-sided preaching to the choir. And that's cool.

And they don't appear to be saying that we have to treat the words for a defendant the same as info from LE. From what I can tell they seem to be saying that we should be allowed to respectfully debate the allegations and apparent defense and propose theories based on both. That seems fair, right?

Sadly there appears to be some taking advantage of that. I'm not a mod but I think, for example, it's probably okay to say something like, "Is it possible that SW suffered some mental health issues or extreme anger issues that would enable her to react as CW claims? Here is what I have found...".

But instead there apparently have been definitive allegations that she looks insane or was on drugs so she must have done this? That kind of stuff seems cruel, irrational and probably against TOS. I would just report such a post and not engage.

So much better for the blood pressure! And it enables us to engage in meaningful conversation without having to react to something ridiculous and ugly.

As usual, you hit the nail right on the head.

 

[kkdj]

Another thing, kkdj, he scrubbed his SM a week before the murders...didn’t want him with his family on SM??

That makes me wonder if the gf thought CW and SW were already separated. After all, SW was in another state with the girls for weeks and weeks. He probably had the gf over to the house even.

 

[BingoBongo]

How much do we know about CW's friends, past relationships, family relationships, work relationships (other than the AP)?