CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[Chelly]

So now she PLANNED the girls murders. days in advance? Why would she do that?

Ok, The Murderer CW claimed his wife murdered their children......and we all know how credible a murderer is. But, victim bashing is another thing entirely. This is Victim Bashing and totally inappropriate.

 

[cottonweaver]

Strangling usually leads to severe bruising around the neck, and I imagine a child's neck would bruise greatly under the force of a grown man

Only sometimes.
just saying, for the sake of the thread,

 

[SuziQ]

Apparently, you can change the wake word, I just haven’t figured it out yet.

I changed mine to "Echo" and now when I cough it comes on.

 

[Seattle1]

Hello everyone,
I am new to the conversation, but not new to websleuths. I would like to give my opinion, but please keep me in line with the rules:

Regarding CW's account of what happened, I read somewhere that he asked to speak to his father before giving this account. I believe his dad is who encouraged him to sell this story to LE because you can get less time if it does'nt look like a "premeditated" murder. Premeditation is hard to prove and this may also be why he is holding back on his plea. I also saw an interview of a friend who worked at a beauty salon. The friend was speaking about meeting CW and saying that he was "standoffish". She mentioned that SW had confided in her that they were planning to split and a separation had been discussed regularly. So how can SW be so distraught hearing this from Chris if it was already in the plans??? Although I feel that SW struggled to pull the trigger on this relationship, I feel that she knew a different side of CW than what she displayed. People don't just snap and become violent enough to kill without having demonstrated violence or previous abuse in the past. I also find it odd that a woman who constantly overshared on SM about her life and detailed her every move would NEVER (to my knowledge) explain how she got the scar on her neck (visible in multiple pics) or why she had worn a neck brace last year. Just food for thought!

When a sociopath is exposed in any way, shape or form, they take it out on the "exposing party". When they know they are no longer tricking you, it's "game over" time! Unfortunatly, I think he was ready to show his true colors and she fought back (hence the marks on his arm during interview). I think this is all about CONTROL and nothing to do with affairs or finances. The prosecution needs to paint a picture of a controlling abusive and narcissistic husband. Just MOO!

Welcome to the thread @ Carolina Mom. I want to comment on your statement about CW's Dad, because things got ugly here after earlier posts became accusatory of Dad giving CW his defense and/or implicating him. It's been reported that CW spent Tuesday night at home of friends N & A, and that CW left their house late Wednesday morning, to collect his Dad from airport. Reported that CW & Dad voluntarily went to Fredrick Police Station where CW was reportedly interviewed for hours before partially confessing; CW then requested permission to speak with his Dad, and if granted permission, promised to tell LE the location of the bodies. It was later reported that CW's family encouraged him to cooperate with LE.

IMO, CW knew that he'd never see his Dad again, except under jail/custody conditions, and therefore bargained with LE for this opportunity to see/talk to him, and possibly confess to Dad. I believe if he'd previously confessed to his Dad, they probably would have first sought advice of counsel , and then arranged to turn himself in. JMO.

Late Edit: CW request and LE permission to speak to his Dad is cited in the Arrest Affidavit. Of course the warrant doesn't give us the details of how much time they were allowed to speak, etc......

 

[Ronso]

Ok, So murdering CW claimed his wife murdered their children......and we all know how credible a murderer is. But, victim bashing is another thing entirely. This is Victim Bashing and totally inappropriate.

Please report the post. I wish everyone would just put the JA on ignore so we could have intelligent discussion without having to read a bunch of victim blaming/character assassination comments.

 

[katydid23]

His "running out of time" is key phrase for his whole bungled mass murder. Especially if he murdered the 2 little girls beforehand and wanted it to look like she did it. Oops, they are cold and stiff by the time she gets home, can't call the cops and blame her anymore. Just dump them all and go for blaming Shan'ann.

I am starting to lean more and more towards that possible scenario. He may have made up his mind to get rid of his family, by killing the children,just before she arrives, then waiting for her, so he can kill her and stage the scene. If he had called 911 and said she killed them when he said he was leaving her, it might be more believable.

But her late flight messed up the critical timing. So key thing to know is------what time did she tell him she was delayed?

 

[NuttMegg]

Welcome to the thread @ Carolina Mom. I want to comment on your statement about CW's Dad because things got ugly here after earlier posts became accusatory of Dad giving CW his defense and/or implicating him. It's been reported that CW spent Tuesday night at home of friends N & A, and CW left their house late morning, Wednesday, to collect his Dad from airport. CW & Dad went directly to Fredrick Police Station voluntarily where CW was reportedly interviewed for hours before partially confessing; CW then requested permission to speak with his Dad, and if granted permission, promised to tell LE the location of the bodies. It was later reported that CW's family encouraged him to cooperate with LE.

IMO, CW knew that he'd never see his Dad again, except under jail/custody conditions, and therefore bargained with LE for this opportunity to see/talk to him, and possibly confess to Dad. I believe if he'd previously confessed to his Dad, they probably would have first sought advice of counsel , and then arranged to turn himself in. JMO.

Do we know how long the talk with his father was?

 

[Bluefield]

Please delete if can't use this link: Wiki Strangulation (domestic violence) - Wikipedia
"Unconsciousness may occur within seconds of strangulation and death within minutes"

Minutes IS a long time when you're being strangled. Those who have strangled people to death, such as serial killers, have commented on how long it actually took to strangle their victims.

 

[Hhskstev]

Just occurred to me: Was Nico named after Nichole?

sorry i read the name wrong! possibly Nico could be after her dear friend!

 

[Inthedetails]

Only sometimes.
just saying, for the sake of the thread,

IIRC from other cases, strangulation is sometimes detected because there is a small bone in the neck that gets broken from the force around the neck. Someone will likely be able to clarify or correct me if I'm wrong. So, I'm thinking that the oil will not tamper with that internal evidence if they were indeed strangled.

I've have a suspicion, however, that the girls were smothered with a pillow. The reason I think that is because it seems like it would be easier and more "distant." But, he had to say he saw them being strangled on the monitor because being smothered might not look like anything to notice on the monitor. He needed an active way for them to die because he said he saw it happen on the monitor.

And, he figured the bodies wouldn't be found anyway, so he could say whatever he wanted about how they died. I am hopeful the ME will be able to determine COD (and what an awful case to work on with that oil. Wow....really appreciate the experts).

jmopinion at the moment

 

[flourish]

You keep saying CW didn’t kill the kids, but he admitted to killing Nico, so he killed a kid. Unless you want us to believe Nico doesn’t count? Is that what you’re saying?

Perhaps he didn't kill the living children.

He killed a pregnant woman and her fetus. I really don't think the OP was implying Nico doesn't count; just referring to the living children. I can only speak for myself but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on this one; the poster can clarify if needed. YMMV

 

[Allabouttrial]

I saw someone mention SW home-coloring her hair and maybe that was because of finances.... I color my own hair. Not because I have money problems, but because I always have and I see no reason to go to a salon for it. (Been doing it this way for almost 20 years now) I know people who disagree and won't home-color their hair and that's fine. But, I lighten and color mine temporary colors like pink, purple, blue, etc... and if I had a salon do it every time it needed done, I'd be dropping some serious cash on it. lol

Ha same!

 

[NuttMegg]

Whe

Welcome to the thread @ Carolina Mom. I want to comment on your statement about CW's Dad, because things got ugly here after earlier posts became accusatory of Dad giving CW his defense and/or implicating him. It's been reported that CW spent Tuesday night at home of friends N & A, and that CW left their house late Wednesday morning, to collect his Dad from airport. Reported that CW & Dad voluntarily went to Fredrick Police Station where CW was reportedly interviewed for hours before partially confessing; CW then requested permission to speak with his Dad, and if granted permission, promised to tell LE the location of the bodies. It was later reported that CW's family encouraged him to cooperate with LE.

IMO, CW knew that he'd never see his Dad again, except under jail/custody conditions, and therefore bargained with LE for this opportunity to see/talk to him, and possibly confess to Dad. I believe if he'd previously confessed to his Dad, they probably would have first sought advice of counsel , and then arranged to turn himself in. JMO.

Where was it reported that his family encouraged him to cooperate with LE? I am open minded, but he was allowed to speak privately with the Dad and afterwards came out with the part about being in a "rage" etc. Of course we don't know what the "partial confession" consisted of, do you? I'm waiting to see how long the meeting with the father was, and was it recorded. I don't give any of them a pass now on helping or not helping him form a story. 4 people were murdered.

 

[TeaTime]

Do not let this man trick you into suspecting the character of the pregnant wife that he murdered.

 

[Chelly]

Perhaps he didn't kill the living children.

He killed a pregnant woman and her fetus. I really don't think the OP was implying Nico doesn't count; just referring to the living children. I can only speak for myself but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on this one; the poster can clarify if needed. YMMV

He is a KILLER. Period.

 

[NuttMegg]

Do not let this man trick you into suspecting the character of the pregnant wife that he murdered.

No kidding. He admittedly murders her, puts her in a grave and THEN comes up with the story that SHE did it. Coward. If he had called EMS or 911 and spun the story, it could be proven/not proven. And 1 or both kids could have survived. There is nothing at all that provides a logical explanation for, if he did find her killing her children, why he didn't push her away or smack her and call the police to try to save a few lives, maybe ALL of the lives.

 

[flourish]

He is a KILLER. Period.

Okay...
That wasn't the point, however.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Do not let this man trick you into suspecting the character of the pregnant wife that he murdered.

If it IS a man. And, it's like SW is being murdered again.

 

[Seattle1]

Just casting out a line here, but is there any evidence of CW being a narcissist? Wanting attention, etc. Because looking at how poorly his plan was, going on national T.V. and begging for their return, burying SW's body where it could be seen, it makes me think he possibly planned all this for attention and fame.

Good question and time to repost from earlier:

@Seattle1

A Relationship without Empathy (a Narcissist) ...

So much time, energy and emotion is spent trying to understand why emotional manipulators do what they do. The answer has never been a secret. It’s always been in plain sight, but perhapsdue to its simplicity and our inability to relate, weshrug it off and continue the search for some way where we can blame ourselves.

Why do Narcissists make such terrible partners? Why are they so hurtful? The answer is of course empathy, or rather a lack there of.

Empathy is defined as – the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings and thoughts of another, of either the past or present, without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner. – Webster

The DSM tells us that psychopaths lack empathy and that a Narcissist’s ability to feel empathy is impaired. This means that they cannot understand or have concern for the feelings of others.

Why are Narcissist’s so self-centered? – Becauseyour feelings, your needs do not compute. It’s as if they are emotionally color blind,thus, missing colors in their emotional color palette.

What does a relationship look like with someone that lacks empathy?

Lack of Empathy Symptoms in a Romantic Relationship

Everything is always about them. Your thoughts, feelings, needs and wants are not considered, unless they serve a purpose.

Emotional Manipulators ruin the holidays, birthdays or any special event that is important to their partners. They do not like to share attention and therefore, do not care to be a part of anything that doesn’t thrust them in the spotlight. They have an expectation to receive and feel uncomfortable with the concept of giving. They will, on occasion give, but the gift will often be off somehow, usually not exactly what you wanted or asked for. They do the absolute minimum in terms of effort, when it comes to bestowing something that does not directly benefit them.

When their partners are ill or have some type of pain or injury, the Narcissist will view this as an inconvenience to them and either be bothered by it or ignore it. They are not caregivers. They don’t do nurturing – unless it’s to get praise by others – “Look at how great Tom is being while Anne gets over her appendicitis.”

They are never wrong, so don’t expect to get an apology. You will always be wrong, and they will always be the wronged party.

No issue is ever resolved. They thrive in ambiguity. When you can’t pin them down for a time or a decision they can never be held accountable when they disappoint. Disappointment is what they do. Don’t expect to be able to count or rely on them for much, unless there is a benefit to them.

They have a real problem discerning cause and effect. They cannot see a link between their behavior and your reaction. They will look at your reaction to what they’ve done as the problem, rather than their behavior.[CW will never see that what he did was wrong; his vicious act was, and will always be, somebody else's fault. Also, if CW perceived anarcissistic injury from either SW's or his family, (which is a perceived threat to a narcissist's self-esteem or self-worth), it would serve to fuel his fire, and justify his actions. Undoubtedly, CW suffers from more than a personality disorder, but omitting the definitions and discussion of psychopaths and sociopaths here is intentional. I believe it's very serious stuff, and I'm not qualified to present it. Providing link below. All MOO].

Because of their fear of abandonment, they will try to control you through emotional, psychological and sometimes physical abuse. They will not care how this abuse affects you. They will not care if they have traumatized you, hurt you or that they are grounding your self-esteem into dust. The effects of their abuse do not generally even register with them.

Even if a Narcissist targeted you because of your wealth, business, fame, talent or connections, they will quickly start to resent you for these things. They are not supporters. They don’t do the cheerleader role. They will try to assert their control and methodically try to take over and try to take credit for your success, by undermining, demeaning and manipulating.

They will attack you verbally, emotionally sometimes physically if they feel that their ego is being threatened. You will usually be their emotional punching bag when things go wrong for them.

They have no interest in your growth and expansion. They don’t care about what’s best for you, your happiness or success. They will try to suppress these things, to maintain your compliance and their control.

They will make it very unpleasant for you to maintain outside relationships with family and friends. They want you there, focusing and serving them. They don’t want you to get any ideas, any hint of a better life. They don’t want people that love you to reach out and give you options, so any time you want to go out and socialize without them there will be a problem.

They will think nothing of flirting, spending time with or giving attention to another in your presence. They seek to be revered and the center of attention, it will not compute that their behavior is inappropriate or upsetting you. In fact, they will thrive on pitting one against the other, a term called triangulation. They love the feelings and attention that your jealousy gives them.

Nothing is ever equal. On matters that they care about they will insist on complete domination. In matters that don’t, they will not lift a finger to help or compromise.

They will not love you for you. They will constantly be trying to change you. They will criticize you and never let you feel comfortable in your own skin.

Their presence and energy will dominate your space. You won’t be able to work or focus on your own projects.

You will never be able to trust them. You will walk on egg shells because you will never know what’s coming or when the next shoe will drop. There is no relaxing, only high stress and anxiety.

You will never feel truly loved. You will never feel comfortable. You will never feel safe.

Why didn’t your relationship work? Stop searching. Stop looking for a way to make it your fault. If your relationship resembled many of the above behaviors, it’s time to stop obsessing. Stop the FBI analysis and start accepting the truth. Your relationship didn’t work out because you were involved with someone who has a Personality Disorder. It never had a chance.

Fair Use Act Disclaimer

This post is for education purposes only.

Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

www.esteemology.com, a website dedicated to educating and healing survivors of abusive relationships.

Psychopaths versus sociopaths: what is the difference?

LATE EDIT: Refresher since CW arrest. The signs are all there. MOO

 

[Allabouttrial]

He is a KILLER. Period.

Then I ask again. Why are we still discussing this case?