CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #15

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I doubt that he wanted them to be with their mother, but that is the easiest solution, they saw him do something to mommy and he had to kill them. But with the oil tanks being so far away, I have to toss Occam in this case and believe in premeditation.
I wonder why it took so long to kill them all, why he waited until 5:30 to leave the house. I saw a video someone posted here about the tank farm being inside of a ranch, I wonder if he simply couldn't get in there before 6 am or so, ie maybe it was closed.

Does anyone remember that post, a video, that showed an entrance way, with gate, into the ranch through buildings? And then another shot of the tanks which were isolated and had another gate to open?


I think he waited until 5:30 to leave the house because if he left at 3:30 it would look very suspicious. Leaving at 5:30 is somewhat normal time for a work truck to be seen loaded up in the am and driving off.
 
IMO the only reason CW told Nicole about a "seperation" was because he thought that would be a good reason for her to run off in sadness and despair. I don't believe they even talked about a separation. Another one of his lies.

Actually, they were getting separated, it was reported in the news--Shanann talked to her family about it when she was in NC.
 
I think you’re going to drive yourself crazy trying to figure out a why. There is no logical reason why C.W. killed Shanann, Bella, and CeCe. The logical solution to CW’s problems would have been to solve them, using smart thinking, without killing anybody.

You want to know what was in his head when he did what he did, but only he knows, and he’s not going to tell you. His words and actions were so contradictory, none of it makes sense, and he’s a liar who is capable of doing unspeakable things, so you can’t believe a word that he says.

You’re going to have to chalk it up to CW was screwed up. Maybe, his family and friends might have stories to tell, but so far they’re not talking. I’ve come across two people who knew him, a teacher from when he was in high school and a friend who went to that school with him, and they’re just as shocked as we are.

Maybe, further down the line more people will come forward, maybe they’ll make a Dateline, maybe they’ll write a book, but until there’s either a trial or a plea deal, it looks like those who know aren’t going to be talking, and you’re left to speculate without enough information to come to any conclusion with any certainty.

BBM.

Yes and no. First of all, we know for a fact that the prosecution has a ton of evidence that they aren't going to release until trial (if there is one), and the motive may develop from the evidence as clear as day. There may be text messages between CW and SW where CW spells out his motivations with 100% certainty.

And it is possible that the prosecution never suggests a motive. They don't have to. They could just say, "Ladies and gentlemen, the evidence proves to you beyond a reasonable doubt that CW killed his wife and children. We don't know why he did it. We'll never know, but we ask you to return a verdict of guilty." But that is very unlikely. The jury will return a verdict much faster and without any second-guessing if they buy in to the Theory of the Case: the facts plus the motivation.

And the other thing is that the prosecution doesn't have to prove his actual motive, they just have to have a theory of his motive that makes the most sense and ties the facts together.

So the trial is going to be interesting. We'll get more information and see if our theories are right, and we'll get to see the State's Theory of the Case, which will include their theory of a motive.
 
@RickshawFan
Post #525
Thread #14

I'm just not sure what I'm missing in the video & pictures you referenced.
Many posters liked and agreed with you. It leads me to think my brain may be wired wrong :)

No, But, honestly what am I misreading?

I see a young woman (in video you referenced) that seems at peace and content with her life.
I don't see 'phony'. It doesn't make me feel 'creepy', nor do the family pictures.

I know nothing about MLM. Only Amway two decades ago - a friend's husband was selling it. That's it, nada, except for that.

I'm wondering if people, for some odd reason, feel a jealousy toward Shanann because her experience with MLM was positive? Not in any way saying you feel that way. Just truly cannot understand all the negativity about Shanann...? Several posters agree with you - What Am I Missing?

Sometimes it feels as if the whole world is jaded :( Why can't a person post their beliefs, that they are content, and, YES, happy with life? Why are people all too eager to smear those people?

I, for one, am so glad that the last few years of her life she smiled a lot.
Glad that she enjoyed her much too short life & posted 'happy' moments.

So, what the heck is wrong with me?
Why am I not seeing what so many of you are seeing? What Am I Missing here? Serious question.

Tia

Hard to imagine there could be actual happiness with a cheating husband whether she knew it or not. Financial issues once again on the horizon ( HOA fee not paid).

And of course, a husband who happily killed her and the children.

No way could a monstrous person completely hide his evil.

The proof is in the pudding.
 
Ok I went back and had a quick look at both. Reply is quite long but have left loads out!

I think we have to bear in mind that the SM accounts are a marketing tool.

I think Shanann is great at it. As I've said before, I can see her being really popular on a sales channel, a QVC or equivalent. The vids & posts have the same quality , that intimacy & positivity, except in her home & on your device instead of on the big TV screen, in your home.

Think what I have to hold in my mind when I watch them is - what is the product. Is it the 3 steps, eg the patch?
I think it's quite hard to sell a patch, it's pretty dull. From a few videos and posts I have seen, across all 3 SM accounts & the MLM training guidance ( and I watched a few CEO speeches - the emphasis is on "sharing") You sell the benefit to your life & personal achievements. Basically the product is your life ( because it's hard to make proven & specific product claims) you sell feelings etc. I can see why SW would be achieving more than most distributors. She is dedicated to it & really good at it.

Cause it's a marketing tool I can see why that OP u posted might say s/he's cynical about a promotional tool , in shorthand. (I can't speak for him so I'm just summarising) We're all consumer savvy these days aren't we?
I think there are going to be tensions when you're selling your life, you have to omit & exclude stuff. It's part of the SOP.

I follow some people who use SM every day for their work, posting often and some of them never post anything about their personal life ( wouldn't know a single thing about them.) Some also have a separate account with a diff name for their personal shares.

I don't agree that pointing out the diff between the marketing & the reality we're dealing with - loads of revelations & queries about double lives/
impending separation? a work affair etc - on a victim-friendly crime sleuthing site means those questions are necessarily coming from envy.

I get what you're saying re "jaded" I think we're all consumer savvy & nosey & prone to theorising & speculating on the whys, hows, timings, motivations, background. If we weren't we wouldn't be WS members. Well I shouldn't say "all of us", perhaps, but I'd count myself in that ^


I greatly admire your posts. You are very considerate and lay out your thoughts so intelligently that it seems effortless. That's a gift I wasn't given in line the day it was passed out. :)

Thank you for taking the time and explaining what you saw & how you feel about marketing products. It's so strange to look from the outside in or vis-a-versa.

I would like to know if you find the videos and family pictures 'creepy?
I'm not getting that vibe. I know that because of the horrifying outcome of this family, just seeing CW in family pics ... It can cause a sense of disgust, revulsion, etc. But, aside from that, do you find the family pics 'creepy' because of being so 'phony'? (not
my words, nor my belief)

Thank you for taking the time to review the video & responding!
 
Yes, but turning off your headlights looks very suspicious and will draw attention immediately if you are seen. And the brake lights would still light up unless he took pains to disable them.

Many times, there are oil hauling trucks coming and going from oil tanks like that around the clock, so another truck wouldn't be suspicious necessarily.
True! I agree he picked a good place for hiding his dirty deed. It looks to be pretty remote.
 
Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

Thank you,
Tricia
Snipped.

Bumping message....
 
You want to know what was in his head when he did what he did, but only he knows, and he’s not going to tell you. His words and actions were so contradictory, none of it makes sense, and he’s a liar who is capable of doing unspeakable things, so you can’t believe a word that he says.
RSBM BBM

I actually don't think his words and actions are contradictory.

His basic message throughout all of his media interviews is that his wife and kids are gone and he has no idea where they are. That's his story and he sticks to it consistently.

His actions are that he killed them and tried to hide their bodies where no one would find them. He didn't kill them in his house and then leave the bodies there, which is something some family killers do.

His actions (killing/hiding) and his story (they are gone and he doesn't know where they are) are consistent, and they reflect his motivation - get rid of his family so he can have a new life for himself.

Just my theory.
 
I think he waited until 5:30 to leave the house because if he left at 3:30 it would look very suspicious. Leaving at 5:30 is somewhat normal time for a work truck to be seen loaded up in the am and driving off.
I think he was very conscious of time, so he could go about his business as usual, so he wouldn’t arrouse suspicion, and to give himself an alibi. I can’t understand why he was so careless with the sheeting, though, leaving part of the sheet set in the kitchen garbage can and a matching one out in the oil field. That seems so stupid. It would have taken seconds to put all those sheets in a much less conspicuous location.
 
For me it's the fact they hugged immediately. It would have been different if they had just taken the fight inside, that's a more "normal" reaction IMO.

IDK. We went to a marriage counselor about 15 yrs into our marriage and that was a technique we were taught.

She said that when bickering and arguing is escalating into a bigger fight, then we should use a safe word, and then hug, or kiss on the cheek, or handshake, and AGREE to revisit the 'discussion' later, after we have both cooled down.

I don't think there is anything wrong with suddenly realizing you were both bickering, and hugging it out until further negotiations later on. We do that and it works fairly well.
 
Sure. NU can't reach SW on the phone. She goes over there, SW doesn't answer the door. She gets her son (IIRC) to look in the garage, the car and car seats are still there. What would you call it? I'm not saying it wasn't justified. She was rightfully concerned and she investigated.

I interpreted 'snooping' as having negative implications that, evidently, you didn't intend. I'm sorry.
 
Sure. NU can't reach SW on the phone. She goes over there, SW doesn't answer the door. She gets her son (IIRC) to look in the garage, the car and car seats are still there. What would you call it? I'm not saying it wasn't justified. She was rightfully concerned and she investigated.

Plus it’s probable that some “red flag” behavior had already taken place which SW told NU, so the second NU could not get her friend on the phone, she knew she better make sure she was okay. I have been afraid for friends in the past, based on things they had told me, if they did not return a text within a reasonable timeframe.
 
I think he was very conscious of time, so he could go about his business as usual, so he wouldn’t arrouse suspicion, and to give himself an alibi. I can’t understand why he was so careless with the sheeting, though, leaving part of the sheet set in the kitchen garbage can and a matching one out in the oil field. That seems so stupid. It would have taken seconds to put all those sheets in a much less conspicuous location.
He probably planned to come back and scour his house for evidence and pick things up and that plan was interrupted. The sheet was probably just a careless oversight on his part. Could be at that point he was in a panicked hurry. I can't believe that through it all he maintained his composure 100%. After the murders, I would think he had some mental clarity issues; more from a getting caught standpoint versus a what have I done standpoint. Should have made a to-do list I guess like alot of criminals do.
 
I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

Evidence of triple murder:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
A Global History of Child Death

12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf

I wanted to bump @gitana1's most excellent post that summarizes with citations all of the evidence that tends to prove CW's guilt in this case, together with the evidence that tends to disprove CW's own "confession."

We only have a small portion of the details in this case, but as gitana1 has pointed out, what we do know is damning against CW. We can feel pretty confident that we know the Who and the What.

The only question that remains in order to form a strong Theory of the Case is the Why. And that is the question that I think all of us want to badly to understand, because we don't like to think that good, loving fathers can just snap and kill their families. We need to believe that there is order in the world.

Thank you, gitana.
 
I apologize if this has already been asked.
Will Weld County jail allow the live streaming of the funeral for Shanann and her girls? I hope not.
According to Shanann Watts' obituary in the Sandhills Sentinel, the funeral Mass is set for 1 p.m. Saturday, September 1 at the Sacred Heart Roman Catholic Church in Pinehurst.

The service will be live streamed on the Boles Funeral Homes and Crematory's Facebook page.
 
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