CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

[Stunned]

We, the public, have no evidence whatsoever but that doesn't mean such evidence doesn't exist. He may have been on medication for a mental illness and decided to stop taking it because he thought he didn't need it anymore. We just don't know.

Which a lot of people with mental illness do. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Since they went bankrupt, what bills do they have? Is the house loan rewritten? The credit card bills would be gone.

If they had the income they claimed they made including her Thrive, what were they doing with the money?

Did he have his own fun money account?

They still had to keep making payments on the house and vehicles. The bankruptcy would have eliminated other debts. I doubt their financial problems went away after the bankruptcy, and Shannan was unlikely to have made much money with her MLM business.

 

[Inthedetails]

That mask came off in private. While he was a Type B he was still controlling and probably the most passive aggressive person I've ever met.

Snipped.

In my armchair assessment, SW was passive-aggressive more than he was a narcissist. He's so passive-aggressive that he kills his family, but only because forced into it by his wife killing the children (so he says).

She praises him a lot, which in my observation, is the go-to method in dealing with a PA person. Any criticism sets a passive-aggressive person off and they don't stop until you apologize for whatever fault/mistake that was theirs....so it's easier just to praise them, even falsely. It's the PA person's way of controlling the spouse - the spouse can't do anything that will upset the PA and gets in the habit of praising just to keep the peace.

She tells him what to do and is "bossy." I can see a PA wanting their partner like this because then all blame when anything goes wrong (like money problems) can then be placed on the bossy spouse.

I do see him as lacking empathy, but I think that's PA driven. I don't think of him as full of himself like a narc, and even though he's a liar, it's almost as if he does want to get caught rather than thinking he wouldn't get caught. When a PA is caught, it's always someone else's fault....it's even the friend's fault that SW couldn't finish covering up the murders, not the fact he did a terrible job with the cover-up.

Jmopinion, from my armchair

 

[Bluefield]

Well, but illicit drug use could become part of the prosecution's case. I think it would increase his culpability.

Oh! I didn't think of that. It'll be interesting, then, to see the defense and prosecution try to use the subject matter to their advantage.

 

[stereopticons]

We, the public, have no evidence whatsoever but that doesn't mean such evidence doesn't exist. He may have been on medication for a mental illness and decided to stop taking it because he thought he didn't need it anymore. We just don't know.

You’re absolutely right. We don’t know. However, psychotic disorders are hard to hide, and if he had one and was medicated, we would likely have heard about bizarre behavior in his past. I’m not saying he had no mental illness (though as I’ve mentioned before, individuals with mental illness are much more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators). All I’m saying is of the broad spectrum of mental illnesses he could have, a psychotic disorder seems unlikely. But JMO, of course

 

[Ronso]

Snipped.

In my armchair assessment, SW was passive-aggressive more than he was a narcissist. He's so passive-aggressive that he kills his family, but only because forced into it by his wife killing the children (so he says).

She praises him a lot, which in my observation, is the go-to method in dealing with a PA person. Any criticism sets a passive-aggressive person off and they don't stop until you apologize for whatever fault/mistake that was theirs....so it's easier just to praise them, even falsely. It's the PA person's way of controlling the spouse - the spouse can't do anything that will upset the PA and gets in the habit of praising just to keep the peace.

She tells him what to do and is "bossy." I can see a PA wanting their partner like this because then all blame when anything goes wrong (like money problems) can then be placed on the bossy spouse.

I do see him as lacking empathy, but I think that's PA driven. I don't think of him as full of himself like a narc, and even though he's a liar, it's almost as if he does want to get caught rather than thinking he wouldn't get caught. When a PA is caught, it's always someone else's fault....it's even the friend's fault that SW couldn't finish covering up the murders, not the fact he did a terrible job with the cover-up.

Jmopinion, from my armchair

Not all narcs are "full of themselves" in the way I think a lot of people consider it. My ex wasn't someone who necessarily saw himself as good looking or anything like that. But he's what is called "cerebral" which means he did think he was smarter than everyone else (intellectually superior). I think the big thing with narcs is the lack of empathy and using others for personal gain. I suspect he's a covert narcissist rather than the overt type. And covert narcs are often passive-aggressive. Either way, we both agree he was likely very PA.

 

[Traymar]

This photo posted by @gitana1 of CW is chilling.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/img_9697-jpg.145186/

Reminds me SO much of an ex of mine who was a textbook sociopath and narcissist. He had a way of putting on this soft, gentle-looking smile and tilting his head just so. I thought, in the beginning, that he was just a sad old soul who'd suffered a lot of wrongs in his life but who was trying to smile through the pain and make the best of it.

It took me a year and a half plus a truckload of heartache and chaos to see through his crap. The image he projected worked so well, and you cared a lot by the time the truth of who he was started to show through.

IMO, the way CW looks and acts, from his "I'm a nice guy" smile to his fake-vulnerability head tilt to his silly childlike response to the question about his shirt, is EXACTLY the way my ex presented himself -- for the sole premeditated purpose of making himself seem likable, wounded, and utterly incapable of anything nefarious. It's the devil's angel costume and it works very well - most of the time.

MOO, as always.

 

[Bill Carson]

Snipped.

In my armchair assessment, SW was passive-aggressive more than he was a narcissist. He's so passive-aggressive that he kills his family, but only because forced into it by his wife killing the children (so he says).

She praises him a lot, which in my observation, is the go-to method in dealing with a PA person. Any criticism sets a passive-aggressive person off and they don't stop until you apologize for whatever fault/mistake that was theirs....so it's easier just to praise them, even falsely. It's the PA person's way of controlling the spouse - the spouse can't do anything that will upset the PA and gets in the habit of praising just to keep the peace.

She tells him what to do and is "bossy." I can see a PA wanting their partner like this because then all blame when anything goes wrong (like money problems) can then be placed on the bossy spouse.

I do see him as lacking empathy, but I think that's PA driven. I don't think of him as full of himself like a narc, and even though he's a liar, it's almost as if he does want to get caught rather than thinking he wouldn't get caught. When a PA is caught, it's always someone else's fault....it's even the friend's fault that SW couldn't finish covering up the murders, not the fact he did a terrible job with the cover-up.

Jmopinion, from my armchair

BBM

I like your analysis. I agree that it is almost as though he wanted to be caught. Yes he lied, but it wasn't a whopper. And so many things he didn't do---didn't clean up the crime scene when he drove away with the bodies, didn't erase his text messages, it really looks to me like he expected that he was going to get caught.

MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

I am certainly not a pharmacist, chemist, nutritionist or doctor, but here is what I found about Thrive patches. It includes text about the Thrive ingredients. Interesting and easy to read.
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Does Thrive Patch Help With Weight Loss? A Sales-Free Review (Updated for 2018)
Home » Foods and Nutrients » Does Thrive Patch Help With Weight Loss? A Sales-Free Review (Updated for 2018)

By Erin Peisach (Registered Dietitian Nutritionist)
[Last updated 14th August, 2018]
Thrive Patch is a weight loss patch placed directly on your skin.

Some have touted it to be a “weight loss wonder,” but do actual results reflect this bold statement?

This article reviews how Thrive Patch supposedly works and whether or not it can actually help you lose weight.
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Does Thrive Patch Help With Weight Loss? A Sales-Free Review (Updated for 2018)

Several pages back, our VI told us the products CW was using and posted the files below which include the ingredients. (Just in case you missed it.)

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

It’s incredibly important. Saying “oh, he was just evil” would be ignorant.

Saying he is a narcissist would be ignorant in my opinion. No one can make that diagnosis about someone they have never met, not even an expert. It's one thing to say he might be, but some are stating it as fact. IMO

 

[Ronso]

Saying he is a narcissist would be ignorant in my opinion. No one can make that diagnosis about someone they have never met, not even an expert. It's one thing to say he might be, but some are stating it as fact. IMO

I try to say "I suspect" each time I mention it. I definitely don't know him personally, but simply draw parallels between him and narcissists I've known. (I'm a narc magnet, unfortunately)

 

[tjredline]

Many a parent has gone broke, funding the defense of a clearly guilty child. Parents can be blind when it comes to blood.

This is so true!! My brother has been in jail for 6 weeks because of a stupid choice. I had to bail out our mom because he stole money to fund his habit. I try to check on my nieces each week to see if they need anything for school or just anything. AND now, he's trying to guilt everyone into helping him get out...even house arrest. I can NOT do it and our mom was considering it. Yep, she's helped him his entire life and bailed him out of situation and situation. And now he expects it.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

If CW did suffer a psychotic episode as someone else suggested, the image of SW strangling the child he claims he saw on the baby monitor may have been a hallucination that he believed was real and he needed to intervene. He may still believe this delusion. I think it is entirely possible CW has a mental illness.

So he had an image of her strangling the child, so he needed to intervene and strangle her and then finish off what he was seeing her do?

Not buying this theory. Too much of a delusion to have no history in my opinion.

Next....

 

[Bluefield]

Saying he is a narcissist would be ignorant in my opinion. No one can make that diagnosis about someone they have never met, not even an expert. It's one thing to say he might be, but some are stating it as fact. IMO

I tend to agree with this. However, some people here have had the experience of living or knowing narcissistic people and have a lot of insight.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I hope and pray that the prosecution is allowed to play these interviews for the jury. Sometimes the defense fights to keep media interviews out. I am sure they will fight hard to keep these out. The defendants life could depend upon it in this case.

@gitana and bill... do you think that they would get in? is the probative vs. Prejudicial outweighing?

 

[Inthedetails]

As a sentimental aside, I like the name of the kids - the girls and the unborn son. Very nice names.

 

[Shahana]

We, the public, have no evidence whatsoever but that doesn't mean such evidence doesn't exist. He may have been on medication for a mental illness and decided to stop taking it because he thought he didn't need it anymore. We just don't know.

And btw..I'm quoting myself but...I think this whole thing is so intriguing and so difficult to grasp because in an evil way, it is just so scary simple. He wanted a cheap reset with no responsibility for it or from it. With another kid or a divorce and child support payments that just could not happen. So they had to go...in only this way from his perspective..the only option.
The rest of us just don't think this way naturally so we can't easily make sense of it.

I get it, but I still shake my head in disbelief..even though I believe it.
"But he looks so normal", lol..but he so is not. But he looks like any of us...yes..he does.

So like one person asked, "How do you spot that?" Well, it's hard...because they are good at looking normal...just like the rest of us.

Isn't that nothing but a plain old fashioned bonafide psychopath?

 

[MerryB]

They still had to keep making payments on the house and vehicles. The bankruptcy would have eliminated other debts. I doubt their financial problems went away after the bankruptcy, and Shannan was unlikely to have made much money with her MLM business.

I have reviewed their 2015 filing. I agree that most debts would have been wiped out, with the exception of student loan debt.
I am not convinced that they reaffirmed their debt (which is required to keep the house), seeing as they had a $3,000/mo mortgage and less than $900 total in checking/savings accounts.
CW owned a Ford Mustang with almost 100,000 miles on it. At the time SW was leasing a car.
We do not know what happened between the time their debt was discharged in 2015 and 2018 except for in those 3 years, SW quit her job at the call center & began MLM & CW began at Anadarko. He had a company car & she leased a Lexus through Thrive.
It is realistic to think that they were able to rack up more CC debt during these 3 years. I do not know that this happened, but I do know they would’ve been able to get cards after BK (although with staggeringly high interest rates) and they seemed to be having financial difficulties per family sources.
We also know that they had a court date on Aug 24th because they were being sued by their HOA for unpaid dues.

 

[Bluefield]

This is so true!! My brother has been in jail for 6 weeks because of a stupid choice. I had to bail out our mom because he stole money to fund his habit. I try to check on my nieces each week to see if they need anything for school or just anything. AND now, he's trying to guilt everyone into helping him get out...even house arrest. I can NOT do it and our mom was considering it. Yep, she's helped him his entire life and bailed him out of situation and situation. And now he expects it.

I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. Ugh. Please try and take care of yourself during this time; you can't "save" them from themselves.

 

[MassGuy]

Saying he is a narcissist would be ignorant in my opinion. No one can make that diagnosis about someone they have never met, not even an expert. It's one thing to say he might be, but some are stating it as fact. IMO

That’s absolutely true. But saying that he may be one, or even that he likely is, isn’t a stretch. His behavior appears to be narcissistic in nature, his lack of empathy, his self focus in his interviews, his lack of awareness (we could tell he was lying), his lack of remorse, manipulation of the media, etc.

Of course we are not medical experts, and the condition requires a diagnosis by a trained professional.