Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #21

[NuttMegg]

I believe He states he was going in a rage bc Sw had strangled one child and then the other . He then strangled her in a reaction . Just saying I think SW killed them to punish him .

Well I'm on the other side, if only that he didn't bother to try to save their lives via 911 or EMS. And the vile burial, disrespecting ppl he supposedly loved. If he had called 911, the evidence could have shown reasonable doubt, IMO, but he didn't, so in my mind the case is too overwhelming against him that I'd have to see the evidence that she killed them before changing my mind. All JMO

 

[Asevario]

CW was involved with Thrive too.

I believe he was. I was specifically commenting on the LLR matching pattern comment. I am a TOTAL newb at this forum thing, bc I am sick of FB groups, so I may have done something to have my comment misinterpreted. If I did, my apologies.

 

[MsBetsy]

It was a hypothetical scenario. Sorry, I'll edit it to say hypothetical.

No, that's ok, I thought I had read something about the bed being unmade and that he was having an affair. Just trying to catch up on the details. I understood that it probably wasn't known for sure if he had had a woman there.

 

[Inthedetails]

Does it have to be a male? Because I’m a Type B introverted woman, and I have a very strong reaction to watching those videos. I grew up with a very domineering mother. That’s what I see. I see everyone walking on eggshells and hoping to please The Boss.

I think you're on to something. It also fits with my (current) theory that he unintentionally killed one daughter and killed the other in a panic to cover up. And, then, killed SW to avoid her ever knowing, to avoid her wrath and disapproval, etc. jmo

Go ahead, poke holes. It's a working theory, like everything else here.

jmopinion at the moment

 

[Shekkiec]

Well CW seemed perfectly fine with it since he went along with it. He has a mouth. He could’ve spoken up without hurting her feelings for example. That’s what marriage is all about COMMUNICATION

I was in an abusive relationship for years and I was not “ fine with it”. The steps are so tiny sometimes at first you think they just mean well . When the abuse starts it’s followed by a manipulative excuse like I was tired, sick etc . You may tell a friend but then you go back bc you feel bad . Then the excuses become “ if you didn’t do this or if you would’ve just listened “ at that point you feel isolated bc you have lost yourself and built this fake identity you need to protect bc it’s all you have . Your self esteem starts being based on everything they say . Mine included black eyes, broken bones , Assault charges etc I’m just saying From my experience marriage wasn’t a place I could speak up or leave easily. I can see a lot of SW actions abusive IMO. I don’t see her letting someone leave her without vindication .

 

[Inthedetails]

delete duplicate post

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Something that simply does not make sense to me is if he wanted to be free from his marriage why would he kill his family? Wouldn't common sense intervene and tell you that if you get caught you will have no freedom?

He didn't count on LE being called in so quickly and obviously figured he could lie his way out of things. MOO.

 

[human]

Would a pediatric surgeon do surgery on 2 young girls if there were no health issues?

Well, remember Joshie’s mom. I think her name is Kate. She had 8 kids that doctors did all kinds of intense unnecessary things.

Joshie’s mom was the one who said she lived by Desiree, Kyron’s mother. She made up lies about Desiree.

I think everyone was shocked at the serious unnecessary treatments the children received.

Then there was that girl who I cannot remember the name of now—two part name— who with her boyfriend killed the mother.

That mother had doctors giving that child all kinds of intensive treatments. So it does happen.

No way to know if it happened in this case, however.

 

[kkdj]

I think you're on to something. It also fits with my (current) theory that he unintentionally killed one daughter and killed the other in a panic to cover up. And, then, killed SW to avoid her ever knowing, to avoid her wrath and disapproval, etc. jmo

Go ahead, poke holes. It's a working theory, like everything else here.

jmopinion at the moment

I mentioned this upthread, that maybe he accidentally killed one daughter and then it spiraled to cover up. I think this seems plausible with the history of the loving father he was.

 

[violet67]

I wonder if CW was upset with one of the girls and went too far with her discipline and the rest escalated from there to try to hide his original assault.

I have thought this from the start. 3 and 4 year olds come back after 6 weeks in NC. Dad is scattered and all over the map with impending (alleged) financial problems and whoever the affair's with. Birthday party on Sunday and cranky and probably overstimulated kids don't want to eat their dinner (alluding to his strange remark in the tv interview about missing telling them to finish their dinner or no snack/dessert). Kids are crying or tantruming - don't want to eat - don't want to go to bed at their designated time and dad just snaps! it all goes downhill really quickly. CW's mind is going a mile a minute and nothing is anywhere in the realm of rationality. The rest of the night goes even crazier. Now he's got to do something with the bodies The tanks seem a solution at the time because of his knowledge of them and it is in line with his work schedule. I am really, really not trying to minimalize what has done - just trying to understand why he did what he did. No doubt in my mind that I think he killed them all. Now you have the reporters to deal with - I didn't see the gleefulness or delight that others did. I saw someone lying because his own sense of self-preservation is kicking in at this time. I watched that interview when it happened and thought ooh god he has killed all of them. The smiling, the distraction with his shirt feel like completely inappropriate responses that surface up during extreme anxiety. The swallowing when the dogs started barking was a huge giveaway but I think he has gone so far down this rabbithole that he might as well continue the charade. I really don't think he ever thought that his story would fly but the horror of the whole situation is making him fly on adrenaline. Making allegation about Shan'ann is more self=preservation on his part because I don't think his mind has caught up with the reality of what he's done. And at this point he probably isn't going to admit to any affair. This is just my theory - I think it is only CW who really knows exactly what happened. I don't think anything excuses the sheer horror of what happened that night and I think he really knows he is done. I really welcome the VI's input in this. I know some think this has a bias but no situation is going to be completely black or white. I think this is an extreme cautionary tale on so many different levels. Its insightful to look at all the nuances and angles involved. Interesting that it has touched people to the degree of having so many fast moving threads. There have been many more horrifying cases but there is something that is really relatable here. Maybe it is all the social media. Maybe it is because we all know couple like this (before the murders). Maybe because so many of us have been in situation of domestic violence and it touches so many nerves. I don't know and all of it is just my opinion.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

I’ll do my best to answer this. I can see where the masses view is what you said. It’s only because I know him I didn’t see that. I saw fear and nervousness. I saw someone who was trying to keep it together. He meant what he said. He wanted his family back. It was a nightmare staying in that house that night. It’s easy for me to have this view because I know his mannerisms. No need for anyone to jump on me for this. This is only how I saw it.

I’m sorry but With all due respect, this doesn’t make sense to me. He wanted his family back??when he was the one who killed them and put the girls in oil tank and buried his pregnant wife in a shallow grave?? Then during the interview he’s so calm and appears well rested, and happy. All his problems have gone away.

 

[Inthedetails]

I believe He states he was going in a rage bc Sw had strangled one child and then the other . He then strangled her in a reaction . Just saying I think SW killed them to punish him .

But she would be the one who ended up in jail while he would be free to carry on with AP. I don't see how killing their children would punish him.

jmopinon

 

[whisperOFwings]

People would call me abusive then because I tease my husband non stop about being bald and fat. It's all in fun. He's always teasing me about my gray hair which I blame on him and he blames his hair loss on me.

Me too My Hubby still teases me about trying to pet a skunk (I thought it was the neighbors cat).
I tease him about the "drinking with neighbors, guys jumping on the trampoline and one went flying" incident. We've been together for 34 years, teasing is fun for us.

 

[katydid23]

@Trinket78

Have you heard that CW deactivated his Facebook account and/or social media the week before the tragedy?

Can you confirm that this is true? Do you know why it was done, and if you don't personally know why, does it mean anything to you?

Thank you.

In one of her earliest posts, she said that SW kept complimenting SW, and praising him, even though she knew he wanted a separation. 'so he deleted his FB.'

 

[AmaranthaRuth]

This never crossed my mind, but SW did say that she lost a lot of friends because her diseases are outwardly invisible, yet she had a lot of physical complaints. People didn't believe her. Also, interesting that the mil didn't believe the girls' allergies.

SW was diagnosed w fibromyalgia and lupus (after a long period of undiagnosed health issues.)

Not to go too far OT, but i have learned over the years that things like fibromyalgia (& even lupus, MS, Parkinson’s etc etc) can be undiagnosed, tough-to-clear, often Lyme-type infections. (Which are near epidemic level these days.)

If this is the case (which is common) this could have also affected the daughters. If it was an infectiously-related illness, their daughters may well have been born w challenged immune systems & thus been sick more often.

(Source: 14 years personal experience, 14 years research & ongoing treatment by world-famous Lyme doc.)

It is true that a person dealing w this type illness often (I now know) feels much, much worse than they look.

I would never have believed it before.

We get cranky. We get impatient.
We could be accused of being ‘bossy,’

It gets extremely tedious dealing w not only the fact that it hurts to move & much more...but the loss and judgement of family and friends who don’t understand.

Sometimes the best you can do is to cultivate a positive, can-do spirit. I don’t see SW as wanting to capitalize on her health challenges at all.

I see her as being feisty and hopeful; giving it her best. I have been there for years. I’m old enough to be her mom, but I recognize and relate to much about SW.

I can also say that, once there’s DV, the entire couple dynamic collapses. It is nothing like discussing matters w a trusted friend and partner any longer.

Now you’re dealing w someone you’re afraid of, who’s exercising ‘power over’ you... and hiding it so damned well.

Who, these days, wants to admit that they’re afraid of their partner?

It happens fast, too. For awhile, the cognitive dissonance makes the denial seem almost normal.

The shift in worldview that comes from living w DV is pretty incomprehensible if you’ve not been there.

And the wishful thinking doesn’t stop once you see your partner’s not-nice side. (It might be better if it did, imo.)

It becomes a situation of dealing w someone who seems determined to undermine you at every juncture, while (very often) staying well-hidden; looking like a good guy, and you’re the one getting called ‘crazy.’

Once you realize that you might be the other person’s cheerleader, but it’s not reciprocal, it’s not unusual to pull away, bide time till you can leave, and otherwise be distant and self protective. Maybe even bitchy towards your underminer. It depends just how bad it is behind closed doors.

There’s a syndrome called IIRC ‘reactive abuse’ where the abusee is good & damn well fed up w it all and no longer just heaping praise on the abuser. There can be snarky comments, etc.

But the love and hope is not yet gone. It’s bizarre and unsettling— this is traumatic bonding, aka Stockholm Syndrome.

SW looks a bit Stockholmed to me. Takes one to recognize one, I suppose.

DV is terrifying and heartbreaking: to try and explain it based on normal couple dynamics of fairness and give & take is simply not possible.

I have observed from my own experience and learned from extensive DV study, that the worst offenses are generally meticulously hidden by the DVer.

Some DVers can appear to others as absolute sweethearts. Such a shy, sweet guy could never get nasty behind closed doors, right? Wrong.

‘Mine’ was very much like that. I’m lucky I got out alive. I digress...

This all leaves the DV ‘recipient’ angry and exhausted at the hypocrisy...such a nice guy towards everyone else! So mean behind closed doors. What a crock.


I am sure it was hard on CW too.

Well, i try to be magnanimous.

But still. Get a damn shrink if you’re that conflicted/confused/thinking of nefarious non-solutions.

Or at least, think *advertiser censored* through.

MOO!!!

PS: Sorry so long. Hoping not to get booted off for my rather strong opinions.

 

[SweetPeas56]

You all are nicer than me about the AP. I have no sympathy for her. I think I'm alone in this sentiment, but that's the honest truth. I would never condone stalking or harassing her (in person or online). I wouldn't call her names or post her info online for others to harass her. Getting involved with a married person is low low low. Cheating is low low low. Any consequences that arise from such actions are on those people who took the actions. Sometimes infidelity only leads to pain (often excruciating pain for partners and kids) but sometimes it leads to worse. This isn't the first murder with cheating involved. I feel that whatever else was going on in the relationship, the affair(s) was/were part of this whole thing. 4 people are dead and one is in jail. If the AP (any AP who knew CW was married) feels guilty, MOO is that she should feel guilty. I am not wishing bad things for her. I just don't feel sorry for her. I feel sorry for her family; they're victims in their own way. I hope she learns a valuable lesson about the consequences of one's actions. I hope she grows as a person. I don't want her to drown herself in guilt, but if she recognizes what lies and betrayal can lead to, she can avoid making the same mistake in the future.

It's not that every affair leads to murder, but HOW MANY murders have cheating involved in the circumstances??

Jeffery MacDonald, Scott Peterson (obviously AF had no knowledge of the wife; many "APs" don't), and Christian Longo are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[esmerelda]

I believe He states he was going in a rage bc Sw had strangled one child and then the other . He then strangled her in a reaction . Just saying I think SW killed them to punish him .

So you are saying SW comes home at 2 am and strangles the kids? Honestly if thats how it happened there had to be a confrontation, argument about something to escalate her to go after them. The neighbors claim to not have heard anything.

 

[BelleIsle]

Especially when he would know that killing her meant killing his unborn son, like you said. I am not buying it for a second. I discussed this with my wife, and I told her, I would grab you, I might even try to knock you out to get you to stop hurting our child (and I feel weird saying that, but she totally understood), but I would never strangle you to death, because that takes two more lives, and the only family I have left. She totally agreed.

Almost word for word what my DH said.

 

[Starkville]

Yes. Please tel me it's not now being considered on this thread that SW had Munchausen's or something similar. What next?

We've seen muchausen's cases on websleuths before. I've studied them pretty extensively. They're intense and all for some sick form of attention. It's like a job for the person with the "condition". It's all they do almost.

They are the ultimate Debbie downers who are constantly discussing their children's illnesses with daily posts of "sad to tell you. Today little Parker had yet another episode. We had to rush him to the ER..."

The glory in medical procedures and constantly ask for more and more invasive ones. They love surgery for their kids. They also tend to love to discuss their own conditions.

SW seems quite the opposite. We know she had lupus and there's a post of her with some sort of neck brace after a surgery. She seems endlessly upbeat about those issues, minimized the neck thing barely talking abou it and seemed to be constantly talking about how great she felt with thrive.

Her posts about her kids being sick are far too infrequent to suggest a problem.

People who strive for attention from medical issues are very obvious.

True Munchhausen’s-By-Proxy is really extreme and sick. These women harm their children in awful ways - starve them of nutrients, poison them, etc. I cannot believe that Shanann would do that to her children.

But what I can believe is that something was... off.

 

[Asevario]

We really do not have confirmation about there being a babysitter on Saturday evening. The father of the child celebrating a birthday on Sunday allegedly posted that his daughter babysat the girls on Saturday, which was construed as occurring on Saturday 8/11, but then his wife allegedly posted a correction that her daughter was helping assemble birthday party guest bags on 8/11, and that she babysat the Saturday prior. I know these posts have been circulating, and maybe somebody captured screen shots. MOO

Unrelated to the named babysitter above , an earlier, unverified insider indicated that CW had the girls out late Saturday at a friends house. At first I thought she meant they spent the night at friends house but Member corrected me and said that CW took the girls home late. I'm wondering if the 3 of them were at a friends home, and CW stepped out for a few hours, and later in the evening collected the girls and took them home. Perhaps this explains the "babysitter" theory. I believe these friends may be witnesses and why they've not spoken. Are there any reports that the girls were tired, lethargic at the birthday? I believe they had a fairly early bedtime schedule, and were off their schedule Saturday. MOO

Weren’t they only home from NC 4 days before she left for AZ? That would mean she couldn’t have babysat (not saying it’s true/false) the prior weekend? Maybe I have my dates wrong? Everything is starting to run together at this point.