Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[maeleemae]

Thanks for the post about bias , objectivity & training.

Just want to query you on this part:"......along with the perspectives of others- witnesses and VI's who didn't loathe Shanann, and actually liked both parents....."

Gitana, I don't recollect Trinket saying anything about loathing SW nor about disliking any of the parents.
Loathe is a very strong word indeed.

I felt the term “cherry picked” wasn’t accurate. There are many videos demonstrating SW’s controlling behavior. Their entire lives are on display. I also am not a fan of her parenting style. I know we wouldn’t be friends. Of course the videos are relevant. With that being said, I still believe C.W. planned and carried out all of the murders. The trial will be very interesting. It’s all so very, very sad no matter how you look at it.

 

[Jennifer17]

It is obvious at least to me that SW was an extrovert. Being an introvert as I am, sometimes extroverts drive me crazy but a lot of times I wish I was an extrovert.

I think CW wanted out and took the worse way out. Extrovert, Introvert, Novert - makes no difference in this case to me.

I have a sister in law very much like Shanann appeared to be. If I run into her town, always, she will say 'I can't stop and talk, I am too busy', then will stand there for ten minutes telling me why she is too busy to stop and talk.
It annoys me immensely and I have to bite my tongue to avoid saying 'No one asked you to stop and talk'.

 

[Charlot123]

One question. We shall not know the answer now, but is it even possible that someone knew about CW's plans? Because I still think it was not an accident but premeditation.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, indeed. The prosecutor and the People of the State of Colorado.

Hell, you could throw in the people of the United States in general, as this case has garnered national attention.

This case is a tragedy on a couple levels. The loss of a mother and her children, and likely a character assasination by the suspect and defense, if it reaches trial. Pain all around.

 

[MassGuy]

One question. We shall not know the answer now, but is it even possible that someone knew about CW's plans? Because I still think it was not an accident but premeditation.

Who knows? Scott Peterson kept it quiet, as have many others. This is the type of thing you keep to yourself, although I suspect he expressed frustration to some of his circle. It’s always possible that he voiced his plans to someone, but as of now, there is no indication of that.

 

[Lucyray]

How in fact does a person actually premeditate killing his/her children? Do they actually think of this? How could they? I am not being facetious. Gee, I think tonight will be the night? Hmm, how will I do this? What will I Say? Please, don't anyone answer this. I don't believe I can handle the answer.

 

[Mosaic]

Who knows? Scott Peterson kept it quiet, as have many others. This is the type of thing you keep to yourself, although I suspect he expressed frustration to some of his circle. It’s always possible that he voiced his plans to someone, but as of now, there is no indication of that.

Probably not shared; but my guess is that family/friends/co-workers has been replaying their last interaction with them, looking for clues and red flags...

EBM: to correct typo

 

[Jennifer17]

One question. We shall not know the answer now, but is it even possible that someone knew about CW's plans? Because I still think it was not an accident but premeditation.

I don't believe that. I can't.

 

[gitana1]

AB 9/13/18 Part 2
1. Played NU’s tearful live fb video. SM have been ferocious to NU. Bullies have gone after her. If not for NU, CW could have had a lot more time to cover his secrets. CW had a lot of secrets.
2. Defense is upset leaks are tainting jury pool
3. DA said C.W. started it by sending so much information out to public.
4. In 2016 1600 women were murdered. 55% were murdered by their husbands, or boyfriends. 20% were pregnant. Obvious that LE is going to look there first every time there’s a new female murder.
5, Defense needs to have clean hands, too.
6. What is it about CW’s hands, what information can they gain? They will know how big CWs hands are, and know if they match marks on children’s necks. Not a perfect technique. Parts of palm and fingers will leave bruises. Defense needs to turn requested prints and photos over.
7. Why now? There are standard booking procedures, prints and photos go beyond what is normally done at intake.
8. If Defense is suggesting there’s a leak, is this a tactic of defense to sidetrack DA’s Office? It is a unique request. Defense should have left it to court. It fell flat. Defense is trying to protect their client. Defense may be trying to make DA’s Office look corrupt and incompetent.
9.Still no COD.
Viewer Questions
1. If NU didn’t report SW missing how long would it have been before CW reported her missing? It would have been found out very quickly. Lots of friends and family would have been concerned.
2. Can they find out if kids were dead before they were put in oil? Yes, COD would be either strangulation or drowning.
3. If C.W. had seen SW strangling on baby monitor why didn’t he try CPR or call 911, why didn’t he try to resuscitate them? In the throes of an event you would be very surprised what individuals reactions are. We’re looking at forensics, too. What’s on the baby monitor. Evidence needs to be reviewed. A juror would have a tough time getting past CW’s actions. Very compelling fact. Defense will have to look at C.W., who is he? How does he react? Is he impulsive?
4. Sociopaths don’t become sociopaths overnight. Something had been very dark inside that man since childhood. They know how to blend in and act normal...and people lose weight all the time. People also cheat...however sane folks don’t kill their entire family. There’s much deeper issues here? Dr. J. and Mr. Hyde’s walk among us every day. CW may be the type of guy who can charm his way into any situation, and then when it doesn’t go his way, he just snaps on a dime. We just don’t know.
5. Is it just me, or does anyone else think C.W. was so sloppy possibly because when his wife was dropped off from the airport from her girlfriend from the business trip...the next day NU filed a missing person’s Report...so he didn’t have as much time to discard evidence as the police were at his house so quickly? He was at work the next day. Thought he would get home before anyone knew. Trash day was Tuesday so everything would have been taken away.

Thanks for that synopsis!!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Probably not shared; but my guess is that family/friends/co-workers has been replaying their last interaction with them, looking for clues and red flags...

EBM: to correct typo

I think so. It must be so painful for them.

 

[MassGuy]

How in fact does a person actually premeditate killing his/her children? Do they actually think of this? How could they? I am not being facetious. Gee, I think tonight will be the night? Hmm, how will I do this? What will I Say? Please, don't anyone answer this. I don't believe I can handle the answer.

You said not to respond, but I can’t help myself.

You are looking at this through the eyes of a normal person. You understand pain, loss, love, and have empathy for others.

There is a segment of the population that doesn’t feel these things, atleast in the same way that you or I do.

They care only for themselves, and their own gratification. Life is about them, and less about those around them.

I’m speaking in a general sense, but some people don’t value human life like the rest of us.

 

[Doghairrules]

MerryB, you are my idealized, polite, calm self. Former Seattle Seahawk, Richard Sherman, is my other self.

Hahahahaha! Thanks for that.

 

[Layla123]

I’m trying to see all sides because there are many who believe it’s quite possible the story went just as CW said it did.

I’m struggling. Hard. So, I’m hoping that some of the posters who have more of an open mind than I do at the moment can help me get how you (generic you) see this playing out logically?

Scenario: That night, this good, calm, rational man who loved his kids and never lost his temper, never lashed out, who was totally calm, possibly abused and/or dominated by his wife and was actively seeing another woman, asked his wife for a separation and she got very angry and upset.

In the time it took to get water and come back, he sees on the monitor that one daughter is dead and the younger is being actively strangled by this woman he has grown to hate, and he snaps, lashing out at her in a rage.

If he’s this calm nice guy who loves his children, if the resentment towards SW and his marriage was so strong and then on top of this she hurts his kids for revenge, why not lash out at her - punch her, shove her, whatever - then instantly run to Cece and try to save her? Why not call 911 and have her arrested so that baby Nico wouldn’t die too?

Three people and an unborn baby died in the house that night and he’s composed enough that no one hears anything, no screaming or running outside or pleading for help. Then he comes up with a plan to hide all of the bodies, call and text her after she’s dead, shower, shave and lie smiling to the media and the friends he stayed with. How was this the instinctive reaction?

If he was the loving one, where is the grief? The regret? Why not try to save his children? To “protect” the rep of the wife you can’t stand that just brutally took your kids lives away? Neither of them cared enough to save any of the children that night, then?

He kept it together consistently and kept his story as is until he was boxed into a corner, then admitted to the least amount possible.

I sincerely want to try to understand how this feels logical or realistic at all.

I keep hearing people say he hid the bodies to protect SW. Did CW really say that? Is it documented anywhere? How can somebody hate his wife so much he strangles her to death because she strangled his 2 daughters, and then turn around, within hours, and dump those same 2 daughters into a filthy tank of oil in order to protect his wife because he loves her so much? Doesn’t make sense. Somebody is lying.

 

[gitana1]

Not to argue with *you*, but... does Shanann strike ANYone here as a person who’d let her husband dictate what she should do?

In the videos, she is clearly in charge of things in that household. And she had a very good reason not to get pregnant again. Even if Chris whined that she wouldn’t give him another child, everyone knew she had lupus and how could anyone hold her reluctance against her?

No, I think she did exactly what she wanted, and she wanted Nico. Like most everything else, the FB posts were a show.

It’s tragic that he never got to come into the world.

I think the videos show her in charge because she's the one taking the videos. We don't know what his looked like because he conveniently deleted his Facebook one week before the murders.

We are seeing things literally from only one lens in that house and making determinations about who ran what based on it. It could be she ran the show all the time but maybe not.

Second, allowing yourself to be persuaded is not the same thing as being dictated to and following submissively. Clearly if she was persuaded she ended up wanting to be pregnant. But maybe she was convinced.

And maybe part of that reason is they weren't as close anymore and they both thought it would make them closer. I don't know.

But just because he is the one who possibly really wanted a third child and she didn't at first doesn't mean she was dictated to.

 

[MassGuy]

I keep hearing people say he hid the bodies to protect SW. Did CW really say that? Is it documented anywhere? How can somebody hate his wife so much he strangles her to death because she strangled his 2 daughters, and then turn around, within hours, and dump those same 2 daughters into a filthy tank of oil in order to protect his wife because he loves her so much? Doesn’t make sense. Somebody is lying.

I don’t know where the idea that C.W. tried to protect SW by hiding the bodies came from, but there has been nothing as far as I have heard, to that effect. I would remember that, because I would have found the notion hilarious in its stupidity. I can’t imagine anyone has said that, and it doesn’t make any sense to me either.

 

[Hazelnutty]

AB 9/13/18 Part 2
1. Played NU’s tearful live fb video. SM have been ferocious to NU. Bullies have gone after her. If not for NU, CW could have had a lot more time to cover his secrets. CW had a lot of secrets.
2. Defense is upset leaks are tainting jury pool
3. DA said C.W. started it by sending so much information out to public.
4. In 2016 1600 women were murdered. 55% were murdered by their husbands, or boyfriends. 20% were pregnant. Obvious that LE is going to look there first every time there’s a new female murder.
5, Defense needs to have clean hands, too.
6. What is it about CW’s hands, what information can they gain? They will know how big CWs hands are, and know if they match marks on children’s necks. Not a perfect technique. Parts of palm and fingers will leave bruises. Defense needs to turn requested prints and photos over.
7. Why now? There are standard booking procedures, prints and photos go beyond what is normally done at intake.
8. If Defense is suggesting there’s a leak, is this a tactic of defense to sidetrack DA’s Office? It is a unique request. Defense should have left it to court. It fell flat. Defense is trying to protect their client. Defense may be trying to make DA’s Office look corrupt and incompetent.
9.Still no COD.
Viewer Questions
1. If NU didn’t report SW missing how long would it have been before CW reported her missing? It would have been found out very quickly. Lots of friends and family would have been concerned.
2. Can they find out if kids were dead before they were put in oil? Yes, COD would be either strangulation or drowning.
3. If C.W. had seen SW strangling on baby monitor why didn’t he try CPR or call 911, why didn’t he try to resuscitate them? In the throes of an event you would be very surprised what individuals reactions are. We’re looking at forensics, too. What’s on the baby monitor. Evidence needs to be reviewed. A juror would have a tough time getting past CW’s actions. Very compelling fact. Defense will have to look at C.W., who is he? How does he react? Is he impulsive?
4. Sociopaths don’t become sociopaths overnight. Something had been very dark inside that man since childhood. They know how to blend in and act normal...and people lose weight all the time. People also cheat...however sane folks don’t kill their entire family. There’s much deeper issues here? Dr. J. and Mr. Hyde’s walk among us every day. CW may be the type of guy who can charm his way into any situation, and then when it doesn’t go his way, he just snaps on a dime. We just don’t know.
5. Is it just me, or does anyone else think C.W. was so sloppy possibly because when his wife was dropped off from the airport from her girlfriend from the business trip...the next day NU filed a missing person’s Report...so he didn’t have as much time to discard evidence as the police were at his house so quickly? He was at work the next day. Thought he would get home before anyone knew. Trash day was Tuesday so everything would have been taken away.

Thanks for posting!

 

[flourish]

I keep hearing people say he hid the bodies to protect SW. Did CW really say that? Is it documented anywhere? How can somebody hate his wife so much he strangles her to death because she strangled his 2 daughters, and then turn around, within hours, and dump those same 2 daughters into a filthy tank of oil in order to protect his wife because he loves her so much? Doesn’t make sense. Somebody is lying.

I've seen it suggested, I suggested it yesterday, but I'm not the first. I've not heard anything about CW suggesting that.

 

[NuttMegg]

Chris Watts case: DNA evidence could prove to be 'smoking gun' if judge grants prosecution's motion

has this been posted? Interesting

 

[MyBelle]

What evidence did he preserve under her fingernails? I haven’t heard about that. The size and shape of CW’s palms and prints when compared to the marks and bruises left on the girls necks will either eliminate or include him as the killer. See attached photo. You can see SW’s hands are half the size of CW’s.

The defense motion asked that any evidence under her nails be preserved. I have seen in photos that SW's nails are quite long. The children's DNA would have no reasonable explanation from being there other than she touched them that night. JMO

 

[searchinGirl]

One question. We shall not know the answer now, but is it even possible that someone knew about CW's plans? Because I still think it was not an accident but premeditation.

I’m still curious about the girlfriend I’m not convinced we know who she really is and her role in this. I wonder why the police disclosed her existence in the affidavit? And if that disclosure isn’t what the defense is complaining about in its motion?