Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

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He didn’t have many girlfriends.
He went to NASCAR tech
Relationships with his/her family... I don’t want to discuss.
#6 I don’t know
#7 it depended on who you asked
#8 I don’t know how many
Just want to say I think you are very brave to come on this site and answer questions knowing full well what you may be up against! Thank you for your insight. I hope you know how grateful people are to have you here.
 
I think it's interesting to discuss what the defense's case will be! But that type of discussion doesn't seem to go over very well. Other posters seem to assume it means you're siding with the defense, when that isn't true at all. If there were a way to flag that type of discussion without a bunch of verbage, maybe that would work.

jmo
I feel the same - trial strategy is my thing . I was even wondering whether to ask for two sub threads, one for the prosecution and one for the defense (defence).
 
I don't know if they can be part of the evidence yet not "released". Not a legal savvy person here. You'd think that if they were made public at the trial, how can they subsequently not be "released"? Not arguing here, just trying to understand.
My understanding is that it will not be available for others to see and read the autopsy reports, but will be used in court and the relevant parts can be reported on.
 
I feel the same - trial strategy is my thing . I was even wondering whether to ask for two sub threads, one for the prosecution and one for the defense (defence).
Hmm...that's an idea. Ask a mod, perhaps? It might ease some tension on the board and give room for discussion for those of us interested in talking about it.

I'm not into trials, usually, but I am totally into strategy.

Great idea - could work.

jmo
 
My interest in this is past the emotional reaction stage, it is a horrific tragedy no matter what version of events you believe. I want to understand the dynamic behind this relationship that quite possibly laid the groundwork for this.

I agree, SW has loads of people who spoke highly of her which portrayed her as the as the everyday mom and wife living next door. Her extensive SM presence gives people an uncharacteristically in depth glimpse into her daily life.

However, if you take away the noise spread on here, everything uncovered about CW paints him in the same light. Just an average guy working a middle class job with a wife and two beautiful daughters. Nothing in his history points to this; no long list of people saying 'he is a psycho', no reports of a violent past, no lengthy criminal history...nothing. Those same SM videos show him interacting with his daughters and wife in a manner that further portrays a normal everyday dad and spouse.

That is what intrigues me. Something happened that is abnormal and I would like to understand it. I understand there was an affair, but around 1/3rd of married partners cheat at some point and killings over it certainly aren't commonplace, much less wiping out a family. I think there is a bigger picture here and while it certainly won't excuse or condone what happened it might make it so its no longer a mystery.

Yes. I agree! There is nothing, as I've stated, in either of their pasts like domestic violence, drug abuse, criminal histories, etc.

And everyone who spoke to the media described CW as a great father. Wonderful husband. Good friend.

But this fits precisely with many family annihilator cases. Over and over we see these cases of seemingly wonderful men (usually) who destroy their families and we are all stunned and can't understand why.

But it's pretty universal that in these cases, it isn't the behavior or character of the dead that explain why. It's the character of the murderer.

They typically have a secret life that belies their image of perfection. There are often "triggers" such as financial burdens, unwanted pregnancies and affairs.

But the most universal factor from what I've read and seen in the annihilators who conceal the murders and/or try to blame others is a narcissistic terror of their mask of perfection slipping. They are in dread of anyone seeing them as less than perfect.

Many of these people we later discover have sort of shadow personalities. Subsumed identities that often stem from disordered families of origin, parents with personality disorders and issues of deep enmeshment. Already annihilated themselves by families who could not allow them to have an independent or imperfect identity.

These were perfect little boys and young men. Never got into the slightest trouble that many young people do. Not a lot of close, friendships or deep romantic relationships prior to the one with the dead. Exceedingly charming and close with their families of origin. Often very quiet.

Many married women who were more outgoing. Upstaged them. They're used to that.

Desires that betray the image of perfection, or anything that could mark them as a bad husband or father- like leaving a pregnant wife- they can't bring themselves to do such a thing.

Some examples include Neil Entwistle and scott Peterson who apparently both had psychically (as in of the psyche) annihilating mothers. Their precious babies could do no wrong. Entwistle's mother kept a tight reign on her boys, not allowing them to play with others, but playing "catch" with them in her back yard well into their teens.

Peterson's mom disliked Laci and seemed to be unable to accept anything less than charming, smiling perfection in her son.
(I read a great psychological expose about him and his family).

They were vicious in their defense of their golden boys after arrest.

Chris Coleman's horrid parents were the same. And who can forget Josh Powell's disturbed father and the gothic nightmare of their family history.

It fits a pattern.

These are people expected to be and who were displayed as perfect and unable to express feelings that veered from that. Which is what I've read can create narcissism.

They often pick strong, no nonsense, assertive wives. Likely because they are used being overshadowed.

It's as if their identities don't exist. They're afraid to express anything because anything less than perfection exposed them in the past to narcissistic rage on the part of enmeshed, personality disordered guardians.

So they hide any negative feelings or natural desires which fester and become twisted.

That's been the "why" in almost all similar, past cases. A narcissistic panic at the mask slipping. A desire to be free. An annihilated identity and inability to express their true feelings.

An annihilation of their true selves thus becomes an annihilation of their family.

I think it's horribly disturbing yet fascinating.
 
At post 376 there is a video of an oil tank (not sure of the correct terminology). Were the little girls dumped down those types of tanks?

I cannot unsee that video. The lid is opened and the idea that he tossed his girls like garbage down the tank.
Too much.

@Kensie: I restrained myself from watching the oil tanks video, until today. How in the world can a parent disposed of the babies he said were strangled by his wife in that way??? A ladder with so many steps to drag his babies lifeless bodies. I don't buy the psychotic break or the mental snap. He knew what he was doing and why. I feel like throwing up...
 
I think it's interesting to discuss what the defense's case will be! But that type of discussion doesn't seem to go over very well. Other posters seem to assume it means you're siding with the defense, when that isn't true at all. If there were a way to flag that type of discussion without a bunch of verbage, maybe that would work.

jmo
Well for one thing, ppl came on yesterday, no holds barred, to detail all the physical/psychological maladies that SW might have had or was suffering from. Yet no one came back with CW possibly having early onset Alzheimers, a problem with his prostrate, depression due to having pre type II diabetes, worsening eye sight, heart arrhythmias, depression at being a nebish, or any other psychological ailment. It just seemed a little one sided to me.
 
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Interesting toward the very end before he walks away, you hear SW laugh, and he looks over at her/camera and says something like "What... I was just tryin to..." then starts singing again before baby starts crying and he's walking to other end of the kitchen. Why did he feel the need to start to explain himself?

I'm beginning to think the stronger, more dominant SW started to irritate CW for whatever reason. I am in NO WAY victim bashing at all. I wish I was as strong and confident as SW appeared to be. Nothing excuses what CW did. I'm thinking more along the the lines of a slow build up of animosity toward Shanann over a long time, coupled with his subsequent affair. He probably was looking for reasons to hate her in the end. Hope that makes sense.
 
I think it's interesting to discuss what the defense's case will be! But that type of discussion doesn't seem to go over very well. Other posters seem to assume it means you're siding with the defense, when that isn't true at all. If there were a way to flag that type of discussion without a bunch of verbage, maybe that would work.

jmo
It’s funny because the fill-in host for Ashleigh Banfield yesterday, said something similar. When she was on Court TV, she said that she would present both sides, the prosecution’s case, and the defense rebuttal. When she talked about defense strategy, she would get blasted on social media for it, as people would say that she was in favor of the defendant.

Speculating on the defense’s strategy, doesn’t mean you support their view.
 
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Sadly, that does seem to be the case. It reminds me of discussion here of the Jason Corbett case - anyone who posted anything but foaming at the mouth denunciation of the Martins received the same treatment from a certain group of users. It was very difficult to have any sort of meaningful discussion.

You know, I’ve given so much thought to that case discussion and in retrospect it was probably wrong for me to have stood up for MMC rights when in the end she was guilty as hell. I hate to think I could have caused any harm to those poor children. I sincerely hope they are well.
 
Well for one thing, ppl came on yesterday, no holds barred, to detail all the physical/psychological maladies that SW might have been or was suffering from. Evidently to lay a basis for her killing her children. Yet no one came back with CW possibly having early onset Alzheimers, a problem with his prostrate, depression due to having pre type II diabetes, worsening eye sight, heart arrhythmias, depression at being a nebish, or any other psychological ailment. It just seemed a little one sided to me.
I never picked up that anyone was laying the basis for her killing her children.

But I could have missed that part. Totally possible I missed it.

jmo
 
I think it's interesting to discuss what the defense's case will be! But that type of discussion doesn't seem to go over very well. Other posters seem to assume it means you're siding with the defense, when that isn't true at all. If there were a way to flag that type of discussion without a bunch of verbage, maybe that would work.

jmo
In my (nonverified, nonprofessional) personal opinion - he has admitted to killing SW. I would anticipate the defense to introduce evidence of provocation (he was so incited by what she’d done that he just couldn’t control himself)- in an attempt to drop down to a lesser included offense. As to the other two charges relating to BW and CW - I would anticipate a full defense that he didn’t do it (in line with his confession). JMO
 
Yes. I agree! There is nothing, as I've stated, in either of their pasts like domestic violence, drug abuse, criminal histories, etc.

And everyone who spoke to the media described CW as a great father. Wonderful husband. Good friend.

But this fits precisely with many family annihilator cases. Over and over we see these cases of seemingly wonderful men (usually) who destroy their families and we are all stunned and can't understand why.

But it's pretty universal that in these cases, it isn't the behavior or character of the dead that explain why. It's the character of the murderer.

They typically have a secret life that belies their image of perfection. There are often "triggers" such as financial burdens, unwanted pregnancies and affairs.

But the most universal factor from what I've read and seen in the annihilators who conceal the murders and/or try to blame others is a narcissistic terror of their mask of perfection slipping. They are in dread of anyone seeing them as less than perfect.

Many of these people we later discover have sort of shadow personalities. Subsumed identities that often stem from disordered families of origin, parents with personality disorders and issues of deep enmeshment. Already annihilated themselves by families who could not allow them to have an independent or imperfect identity.

These were perfect little boys and young men. Never got into the slightest trouble that many young people do. Not a lot of close, friendships or deep romantic relationships prior to the one with the dead. Exceedingly charming and close with their families of origin. Often very quiet.

Many married women who were more outgoing. Upstaged them. They're used to that.

Desires that betray the image of perfection, or anything that could mark them as a bad husband or father- like leaving a pregnant wife- they can't bring themselves to do such a thing.

Some examples include Neil Entwistle and scott Peterson who apparently both had psychically (as in of the psyche) annihilating mothers. Their precious babies could do no wrong. Entwistle's mother kept a tight reign on her boys, not allowing them to play with others, but playing "catch" with them in her back yard well into their teens.

Peterson's mom disliked Laci and seemed to be unable to accept anything less than charming, smiling perfection in her son.
(I read a great psychological expose about him and his family).

They were vicious in their defense of their golden boys after arrest.

Chris Coleman's horrid parents were the same. And who can forget Josh Powell's disturbed father and the gothic nightmare of their family history.

It fits a pattern.

These are people expected to be and who were displayed as perfect and unable to express feelings that veered from that. Which is what I've read can create narcissism.

They often pick strong, no nonsense, assertive wives. Likely because they are used being overshadowed.

It's as if their identities don't exist. They're afraid to express anything because anything less than perfection exposed them in the past to narcissistic rage on the part of enmeshed, personality disordered guardians.

So they hide any negative feelings or natural desires which fester and become twisted.

That's been the "why" in almost all similar, past cases. A narcissistic panic at the mask slipping. A desire to be free. An annihilated identity and inability to express their true feelings.

An annihilation of their true selves thus becomes an annihilation of their family.

I think it's horribly disturbing yet fascinating.
Yes. I agree! There is nothing, as I've stated, in either of their pasts like domestic violence, drug abuse, criminal histories, etc.

And everyone who spoke to the media described CW as a great father. Wonderful husband. Good friend.

But this fits precisely with many family annihilator cases. Over and over we see these cases of seemingly wonderful men (usually) who destroy their families and we are all stunned and can't understand why.

But it's pretty universal that in these cases, it isn't the behavior or character of the dead that explain why. It's the character of the murderer.

They typically have a secret life that belies their image of perfection. There are often "triggers" such as financial burdens, unwanted pregnancies and affairs.

But the most universal factor from what I've read and seen in the annihilators who conceal the murders and/or try to blame others is a narcissistic terror of their mask of perfection slipping. They are in dread of anyone seeing them as less than perfect.

Many of these people we later discover have sort of shadow personalities. Subsumed identities that often stem from disordered families of origin, parents with personality disorders and issues of deep enmeshment. Already annihilated themselves by families who could not allow them to have an independent or imperfect identity.

These were perfect little boys and young men. Never got into the slightest trouble that many young people do. Not a lot of close, friendships or deep romantic relationships prior to the one with the dead. Exceedingly charming and close with their families of origin. Often very quiet.

Many married women who were more outgoing. Upstaged them. They're used to that.

Desires that betray the image of perfection, or anything that could mark them as a bad husband or father- like leaving a pregnant wife- they can't bring themselves to do such a thing.

Some examples include Neil Entwistle and scott Peterson who apparently both had psychically (as in of the psyche) annihilating mothers. Their precious babies could do no wrong. Entwistle's mother kept a tight reign on her boys, not allowing them to play with others, but playing "catch" with them in her back yard well into their teens.

Peterson's mom disliked Laci and seemed to be unable to accept anything less than charming, smiling perfection in her son.
(I read a great psychological expose about him and his family).

They were vicious in their defense of their golden boys after arrest.

Chris Coleman's horrid parents were the same. And who can forget Josh Powell's disturbed father and the gothic nightmare of their family history.

It fits a pattern.

These are people expected to be and who were displayed as perfect and unable to express feelings that veered from that. Which is what I've read can create narcissism.

They often pick strong, no nonsense, assertive wives. Likely because they are used being overshadowed.

It's as if their identities don't exist. They're afraid to express anything because anything less than perfection exposed them in the past to narcissistic rage on the part of enmeshed, personality disordered guardians.

So they hide any negative feelings or natural desires which fester and become twisted.

That's been the "why" in almost all similar, past cases. A narcissistic panic at the mask slipping. A desire to be free. An annihilated identity and inability to express their true feelings.

An annihilation of their true selves thus becomes an annihilation of their family.

I think it's horribly disturbing yet fascinating.

Graet post. Very well thought out and stated. Do you think that perhaps CW's improvement of his body and appearance, SW's praise of him on SM, increased interest from others, especially women, created a self image for CW that he'd never had and didn't want to give up?
 
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