Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[JerseyWasHome2]

Curious in cases where a public defender is involved (or maybe this applies to hiring private defense attorneys as well) -

1. How much time can the lawyers spend with their clients while building a case? I imagine they could easily spend quite a bit of time...
2. I believe I read it isn't the lawyers' job to prove their innocence, but to provide them with a fair trial. What if the defendant doesn't admit to anything, or in this case, only to certain things? If they don't admit to any wrongdoing, then the attorneys try to prove their innocence, but in CWs case, the attorneys have to believe what he's told them? Will they try to grill him for the truth (assuming what he's said isn't true)?
3. It must be difficult in many cases if the lawyers don't believe one iota of what the client is telling them. Do they try to build a defense case around ridiculousness, making themselves look ridiculous?

 

[MsBetsy]

Weren't the children's blankets missing from the house? Do we know if they were found and/or where?

I've been following this thread since the beginning but haven't had the nerve to post, mainly bc I'm pretty sure it may rain some unpleasantness on my head, but here goes.......

I've always lived surrounded by the oil/gas and ag world. I dont find the babies in the oil tanks any *more morally repugnant than another place. To be clear before anyone blasts me I find it morally repugnant, just not more so than anywhere else. I know there's been plenty of discussion around SW being placed in a shallow grave due to time, logistics, etc. IMO It feels intentional to me. The separation of her from the babies. Leaving her to exposure to elements, wild animals, where the babies felt more Susan Smith or other parents who go the water route.

All just my own opninion, which you don't have to share .

You could be right about her not being with the children. But I still find it disturbing just to read the words, "babies in oil tanks." I had not heard anything about the blankets. Curious about that, too.

 

[Allabouttrial]

But that is what happens in a traditional burial.

Are people not in coffins in a traditional burial?

 

[Nikynoo]

That’s exactly my view. I’m definitely curious as to what specifically, the logistical issues were here. I think the oil levels may be particularly relevant, because the more places you hide bodies, the increased likelihood of discovery. There had to be a reason to take this risk.

I know, it seems really disjointed to me.... I know that LE or the DA stated that the tanks were almost full, so I think we can safely reason why one in each tank. If he had planned it (e.g. scoped out the site beforehand OR killed the girls first and taken them out to the tanks), he would have known that there was no way that SW could go in the tank(s) too and looked for an alternative solution.

 

[Nikynoo]

Are people not in coffins in a traditional burial?

depends which culture? in the western world, yes (I think)!

 

[Nikynoo]

Curious in cases where a public defender is involved (or maybe this applies to hiring private defense attorneys as well) -

1. How much time can the lawyers spend with their clients while building a case? I imagine they could easily spend quite a bit of time...
2. I believe I read it isn't the lawyers' job to prove their innocence, but to provide them with a fair trial. What if the defendant doesn't admit to anything, or in this case, only to certain things? If they don't admit to any wrongdoing, then the attorneys try to prove their innocence, but in CWs case, the attorneys have to believe what he's told them? Will they try to grill him for the truth (assuming what he's said isn't true)?
3. It must be difficult in many cases if the lawyers don't believe one iota of what the client is telling them. Do they try to build a defense case around ridiculousness, making themselves look ridiculous?

I don't know how it works in the US, but in my jurisdiction, lawyers only ever act on their clients instructions.

 

[MerryB]

Deleted

 

[Jennifer17]

Are people not in coffins in a traditional burial?

Yes, they are. There were probably containers large enough to fit those little children in if being buried in stones and dirt worried him so much that he thought that they would be better off in dark huge oil tanks.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Well, if all the defence has is that she was bossy or a hypochondriac, it will backfire on them. I do not think that they will go that route. Gossip is not evidence.

But it is par for the course for them to disparage the victim at every opportunity.
They could turn Mother Teresa into a shrew.
I feel sure they will be nitpicking some of the same videos we have seen here.
Thank goodness they won't be able to criticize the kids behavior, or blame them for their own deaths.

 

[cottonweaver]

I know, it seems really disjointed to me.... I know that LE or the DA stated that the tanks were almost full, so I think we can safely reason why one in each tank. If he had planned it (e.g. scoped out the site beforehand OR killed the girls first and taken them out to the tanks), he would have known that there was no way that SW could go in the tank(s) too and looked for an alternative solution.

Glad you're back posting with with your knowledge Niky because this does match with what early posters on this case said about the tanks possibly being full. ( They also had industry knowledge. ) I can't pull the old posts back up - too many threads.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Just an FYI - we are not supposed to talk about other posters. I know because I had a post removed for that very thing.

 

[esayer]

What??? How could this have happened? Very strange!

A ghost obviously.

 

[cottonweaver]

Whoops

 

[Allabouttrial]

Just an FYI - we are not supposed to talk about other posters. I know because I had a post removed for that very thing.

Me too!!

 

[evilgenuis1]

Someone said in this thread they would like to hear more from CW's family or friends. Seriously? I don't blame them at all for laying low. I have read some horrible things being said about CW's family in other discussion groups. I tried to call them out on it the other day and I thought I was going to be lynched. I have nothing but empathy for SW and CW's family and friends. Just like the nut allergy incident that happened between SW and her MIL. Families disagree. That doesn't mean that they dont love and care for one another. CW has admitted to killing his wife. And, of course we know that he then did some despicable things! The rest of the story has not been told yet. We do not know anything for sure other than what has been shared by court documents and or the attorneys. All this other stuff is rumor and speculation. And before you ask, no, I am not defending CW. But, I guess I am one of the few people in the world that still believe you are innocent until proven guilty. Sorry, this is so long.

 

[MsBetsy]

She lived there alone until Chris. As far as where the money came from.. besides the Rim store and being a nanny.. I have no idea.

Credit, maybe? It's not uncommon for people to live beyond their means, imo. I'm not sure if you can answer this, but did Chris have any serious relationships before he met Shanann? I think it was said he didn't in high school, but I was thinking of the years before he got married. And if so, how would you describe that relationship. I know a lot of what's been asked is kind of on the surface, but how would you describe CW? In general.

 

[gitana1]

Maybe I am not seeing this as some others are, but I cannot see how it is closed minded to not speculate about whether she had Munchausen by Proxy because her children had diagnosed illnesses and allergies and she took them to the doctors once a month.
I cannot see how discussing things like that further our knowledge of the case.

Yes I mean that's the point. We have a basis for speculation about CW - he was arrested and charged with five counts of first degree murder, confessed to strangling his wife and stood on his porch, dry-eyed, well rested and relatively composed the day after he claims his wife strangled his babies to death. And he smiled, laughed, lied and spent hours concealing what happened.

That's a strong basis for speculation as to his mental status.

There is no such basis for speculation that SW has a condition. She didn't glibly lie and smile and laugh in multiple tv interviews after her babies were murdered.

I get some discussion - I engaged in some myself early on. The questions about what's in thrive. Her lack of sleep as noted in one post. Could she have had an undiagnosed issue? Are there any signs at all?

But some of this rampant speculation is so far out of left field given the facts we know and what we can see that it's baffling. It's like crazy conspiracy theories, IMO.

But others see it differently. That's okay. I just feel sorry for those who love her to see such speculation.

 

[MsBetsy]

I respect that. For me the thought of putting the girls in a hole having dirt, stones and mud thrown over them is equally cruel.

True but it is more in line with the traditional way people are buried.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Someone said in this thread they would like to hear more from CW's family or friends. Seriously? I don't blame them at all for laying low. I have read some horrible things being said about CW's family in other discussion groups. I tried to call them out on it the other day and I thought I was going to be lynched. I have nothing but empathy for SW and CW's family and friends. Just like the nut allergy incident that happened between SW and her MIL. Families disagree. That doesn't mean that they dont love and care for one another. CW has admitted to killing his wife. And, of course we know that he then did some despicable things! The rest of the story has not been told yet. We do not know anything for sure other than what has been shared by court documents and or the attorneys. All this other stuff is rumor and speculation. And before you ask, no, I am not defending CW. But, I guess I am one of the few people in the world that still believe you are innocent until proven guilty. Sorry, this is so long.

Well said. I appreciate your honesty, I too have seen hateful things being said about both families and it saddens me. I would love the opportunity to discuss CW's version but alas I am in the minority and stopped in my tracks by others who know CW killed the girls.

 

[MassGuy]

Someone said in this thread they would like to hear more from CW's family or friends. Seriously? I don't blame them at all for laying low. I have read some horrible things being said about CW's family in other discussion groups. I tried to call them out on it the other day and I thought I was going to be lynched. I have nothing but empathy for SW and CW's family and friends. Just like the nut allergy incident that happened between SW and her MIL. Families disagree. That doesn't mean that they dont love and care for one another. CW has admitted to killing his wife. And, of course we know that he then did some despicable things! The rest of the story has not been told yet. We do not know anything for sure other than what has been shared by court documents and or the attorneys. All this other stuff is rumor and speculation. And before you ask, no, I am not defending CW. But, I guess I am one of the few people in the world that still believe you are innocent until proven guilty. Sorry, this is so long.

I agree that the families should be left out of this.

C.W. “is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.” But he doesn’t get the same courtesy in “the court of public opinion,” which is what WS is.

We don’t have to operate within the same boundaries as the law. But you’re also correct in saying that we don’t have all the facts here, hence the lively discussion.

 

[gitana1]

It could be part of the case. It could be that CW was angry w/ medical bills, he didn't think the kids and Shanann were really sick. He could have thought SW was making the kids sick. The drumstick ice cream and nuts incident at his mom's house that caused hard feelings could have been one of the last straws w/ CW. Who knows? There are lots of reasons why it could be relevant.

She could've been visited by aliens too. Where the evidence that she had an issue with exaggerating illnesses? She shows zero signs of it.