Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #26

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I understand what you are saying about defiling a body and treating a body with respect. I get it! But here is what I dont get! You have a person, that has just strangled the life out of a woman that he supposedly loved. Probably did the same with the children - that is yet to be decided! But in the court of opinion he is guilty! So why do you expect a person that has just committed premeditated murder of at least one person, to care how he disposes of the bodies? He was trying to find a place to conceal what he had done! He needed to do it quickly. What better place than the oil field that he was quite familiar with. He knew it was a remote location, he had access to it, so he did it! IMO, he had not given a lot of thought to this part of his plan. If this is truly premeditated and not done in a rage!

I’m not really sure what the question here is, or if there is one, but if its “why”, I answered in my original response, which is I believe his goal was concealment. He didn’t want the bodies to be found. I think he planned to put SW in a tank also but for some reason couldn’t.

For me, it’s just another clue as to his mindset. His manner of disposal says something.

My thoughts on this case could change with new evidence, but right now we only have the evidence we have, and for me, all evidence so far points to his guilt on all counts. We’ll see what comes to light as this case progresses. Things could change.
 
Oh yeah one other thought about CW not having girl/boy friends and was a straight shooter: I went to school with kids like that at Notre Dame. Super high achievers, bad in the social skills. Later in life some of them just go crazy and have sex and drink and do drugs because they've been supressing themselves their entire lives.
 
I see what you're saying, but CW's story is, currently, that he only killed one person, his wife, the one who ended up in the shallow grave, not his two girls, who were put in separate oil tanks. And with that, the question, well, one, is why hide them if he didn't kill them?
Exactly. If my husband was trying to murder my toddlers I would be on the phone to 911 faster than hell and then I'd try to save them. I'd call LE first though because that's the first thing that comes to my mind. If there is a life or death situation CALL 911 or paramedics or your neighbor. I certainly would not kill my husband then dispose of my toddler's bodies in a vile, dark, equivalent to acid bath. I would WANT the world to know he was a child murderer I would not try to "protect" him by hiding their bodies away in a hellish place with no dignity.
 
We do not know that she KNEW, he “was having sex with other people.” We only know she may have suspected it.

She was trying to promote her business. She may have misrepresented the truth here. Big deal.

He lied about where his family was. He lied about murder. He dumped his kids in oil, and buried his wife in a shallow grave.

Latching on to social media posts made by the victim, and using them as some sort of evidence against SW, is IMO, completely absurd.

Everyone distorts the truth on SM to some extent! SM is not an accurate depiction of someone’s life because they are curating what they choose to share. I agree that using her SM against her is absurd for that reason!
 
I'm torn between this and the possibility that SW was unaware of the affair and still in love with him. Perhaps she had only noticed his acting distant and was trying to pull him back. The question is, did she post these type of messages about him consistently, throughout their marriage, or only in recent weeks?

I'm coming at it with the thought she knew. Our VI said he told her several times he wanted to be separated, mom's friend said separation was a done deal and SW told NUA he had been distant and uncaring about the girls.

To me, this would make her suspicious there was someone else and she would start to dig into his SM, financial records etc... and find out
 
When thinking of a potential pre-planning thought process that CW might have had, I can't help but wonder what that might've looked like.

I've put together a list of my thoughts, and as we do not yet know if it was premeditated, this is completely my own speculation:
  • The seemingly rigorously planned life that SW managed 24/7 would have made CW's options very limited when pre-selecting a day to commit the crime. Her (and his) schedule was something that CW was going to have to maneuver around when thinking of an ideal time.
  • SW was untouchable in NC during those 6 weeks. She was surrounded by family and friends. Too many of "her people" would be asking about them had she and the girls gone missing in NC.
  • We know returning to CO from NC was a quick turnaround time for SW before she had to jet off to AZ for her work trip. In CW’s mind, this would not be an ideal time either; SW would soon be expected at yet another major work event. Too much to deal with, fending off calls and texts from work colleagues wondering why she never showed up In AZ.
  • While SW was in AZ: she was again untouchable during this time. However, the girls were invited to a birthday party as confirmed by a family friend in a MSM interview, which the girls both attended while SW was away. If the girls were also on CW’s radar, then “after the birthday party” had to have played into the timing as well, when thinking of an opportune date.
  • SW was originally expected to return from her AZ trip late night, on Sunday 8/12. As for SW’s doc appointment that was slated for that next day, I suspect CW either didn’t know about it, or had forgotten about it. With how many doctor’s appointments the family as a whole on an ongoing basis, it wouldn’t surprise me to know he didn't remember it, or neglected to consider it.
  • Looking ahead, we know there was going to be a gender reveal party for SW held later that next Saturday, as confirmed by her friend in an MSM interview. This would have been a monumental social event, and one that CW wouldn't be able to fake his way through, IMO.
  • Also, BW was to start kindergarten that next Monday, according to CW in one of his porch interviews. CW wouldn’t want to deal with teachers and other school officials becoming involved in the girls whereabouts.
  • The combination of SW/CW’s meticulous schedule, the looming social events and school, and CW’s goal of wanting to reduce the number of people involved in her and the girls’ search, would lead me to believe that he may have had a clear window of opportunity in his mind, which would be from the moment SW stepped in the door from her work trip, up until the evening before the gender reveal party.
  • Why Sunday night/early Monday morning? Once CW had narrowed it down to that one week, I speculate he wanted it all wrapped up that Sunday night due to starting his new work week. He'd have enough on his plate, between working full time, and continue to clean up his tracks after hours. It was imperative that the bulk of everything had to be completed before the end of the weekend in which SW arrived back home. That, coupled with the growing frustration and anger of knowing he has mentally committed to completing these acts added to the urgency; the sooner he did it, the better. The sooner he could start moving on, selling the house, etc.
JMO.
 
Hmmm from familyharrislaw.com Colorado family and divorce lawyers website. @ray9898

1. A “Separation” simply means that the two of you are now living apart. You do not need to file court documents in order to separate, but you should talk to an attorney about several important issues prior to moving out:

  1. The payment of joint and/or household bills
  2. The creation of a parenting plan.
2. To obtain a “Legal Separation” you must file a petition with the Court.
In many ways, filing for a legal separation will require the same amount of time, effort, and money as it will take to obtain a divorce. When filing for legal separation and/or divorce, you will address the division of marital assets and debts, the allocation of parental rights, and orders for maintenance when applicable.

The primary difference is that following a legal separation, you are still married.

Edited to add:

And yes he could have petitioned for the possession of the home. Should have. But he didn’t.
*of course I am probably missing something. Not a Colorado resident. :)
CO does have legal separations, and it’s usually done when one or both spouses want certain things decided even before the divorce (even if uncontested, there is a waiting period in Colorado). Some times it’s “I’ll pay you to get out of the house now”, or discussion about who gets the kids for holidays. Often, it’s exactly what would be in the divorce settlement, just negotiated sooner. In those instances, the parties usually don’t even go to court —their lawyers just file after the waiting period and the divorce becomes official.
 
Everyone distorts the truth on SM to some extent! SM is not an accurate depiction of someone’s life because they are curating what they choose to share. I agree that using her SM against her is absurd for that reason!
Exactly. If you couple the fact that social media is in general not an accurate depiction of reality, with the fact that her livelihood was contingent upon painting a certain picture, then you don’t have much to work with.
 
I’ve been busy at work and have fallen way behind on here - was intending to catch up before posting, but that just doesn’t seem possible...

This is an exceptionally complicated case. I have never had any kind of personal experience with a case involving multiple murders where a defendant admits to killing one victim - and claims the victim killed the others. Add the dearth of known facts and the prevalence of social media - and I can totally understand why this case discussion is getting so heated. However, we are all here for the same reason - we want to know what happened. Maybe we will find out - and in that case, some will be right and some will be wrong. Or maybe we won’t ever know what really took place that night. I hope that’s not the case, but it’s possible.

I was asked for my thoughts on whether - based solely on the current known facts - I thought C.W. would be convicted for his daughters’ deaths. I hedged that answer a little bit - in part because when it comes to legal matters, it really *does* always depend...two situations are never the same. Change the facts slightly and you may get a different result. I also wanted to wait until I could give a slightly more detailed answer - so here it is. It’s not “pro-“ or “anti-“ either SW or CW - and it steers clear of pretty much any Monday morning quarterbacking if either of their parenting skills or decisions, documented forever thanks to social media.

Anyway - we have the initial charges brought by the prosecution. They want to cover their bases - so they might as well start with the most difficult to prove (first degree murder). If they can’t prove a required element, they can always go for a lesser included offense. Yes, they have to have some basis for the charges - but the fact that charges were brought does not mean that CW is guilty. Far from it. They will have to present additional evidence later on, to see if there’s enough to go to trial... and even *then*, it doesn’t mean he’s guilty - that’s where the trial comes in.

The affidavit lays out the basic evidence relied upon to support his arrest. It does not cover everything - a lot of details are missing, and IMO those details are pretty critical to the potential outcome of this case. We just don’t know what those are, right now. Then we likely have additional evidence gathered by LE - electronic, GPS, postmortems, forensics.

The trial. As you’ve seen on this site, the same exact facts can be viewed very differently by different people. Some people watch a video and reach one conclusion while others reach the opposite conclusions. It’s amazing, actually. Jurors are going to be the exact same way. Each juror will agree to take the evidence and apply it to the legal framework, as instructed, in reaching the verdict. But people are complicated, and reasonable minds may differ (wildly). Jury selection is probably my favorite part of the trial - and one of the most important parts, too. Each potential juror arrives with a wealth of background experience and knowledge that most definitely impacts their view of the case. I spend a LOT of time on jury selection. I take extensive notes... read facial expressions and body language... attempt to ask questions in *just* the right way, in order to reveal possible hidden biases - or allegiances (that otherwise may be denied, if asked directly). I want jurors who are open minded and reasonable - who will listen to the facts and the law and make their decision within that framework. Jurors who take their role seriously, who don’t go home at the end of the day and talk to their spouse or family about what they’ve heard.

The trial itself is about creating a compelling story that aligns with the evidence. It has to be reasonable and pass the common sense test.

So here, for example, take the few facts we actually KNOW. The prosecution will tell one story - how C.W. killed his entire family. What about the defense? I have a potential storyline that fits with everything we know so far, but I don’t want to upset people so after having second thoughts, I’m not going to post it now - but it exists - and i think it can be pretty compelling.

This is so interesting! Thank you for your input.

I've begun to view trials as not so much whether a criminal is guilty or innocent, but whether a prosecuting attorney is better at his/her job than the defense attorney. It's one of the reasons I dread following some of these horrific cases. Then, there's the dueling expert witnesses. Just makes my heart ache sometimes.
 
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I’m not really sure what the question here is, or if there is one, but if its “why”, I answered in my original response, which is I believe his goal was concealment. He didn’t want the bodies to be found. I think he planned to put SW in a tank also but for some reason couldn’t.

For me, it’s just another clue as to his mindset. His manner of disposal says something.

My thoughts on this case could change with new evidence, but right now we only have the evidence we have, and for me, all evidence so far points to his guilt on all counts. We’ll see what comes to light as this case progresses. Things could change.

I'll butt in here to say that earlier today I asked if anyone had info on autopsies/forensics on bodies found in crude oil. evilgenius1 replied saying that they had heard of people found outside tanks, but that, after years of having a spouse in the oil/gas industry, they could see why an oil tank would be chosen. And then a discussion ensued about disposing bodies in oil tanks.

I still haven't found any autopsies on bodies found in crude oil to know what would happen forensically, despite searching today.
 
I'm coming at it with the thought she knew. Our VI said he told her several times he wanted to be separated, mom's friend said separation was a done deal and SW told NUA he had been distant and uncaring about the girls.

To me, this would make her suspicious there was someone else and she would start to dig into his SM, financial records etc... and find out
Yep when she was in NC SW posted he was being a bachelor and eating T-bones so they might have had a shared account she could see what he was buying. She's no dummy she must have known. He probably lied and lied to her about it too.
 
Hey there bestie! It is gross. It's the stuff of nightmares. It doesn't prove him guilty of killing the girls. I've wondered if perhaps it was a sorry if symbolic burial in a place he associated with beauty, with all the wild flowers. Like he thought he was protecting then maybe.


Regardless of where, the fact he didn't put the girls with their mom is interesting to me. I think that was very purposeful.

For the millionth time, I'll add my disclaimer, which should be obvious but isn't, that of course Shanann and the girls deserved a proper burial--well, they deserved long lives, but you know what I'm saying. He should have made better choices.

I'm still withholding judgement for the girls' deaths, though, as I need more evidence--I think it's more likely than not that cw killed them all, but I currently have reasonable doubt with the girls. Obviously subject to change with additional facts and evidence.

And many of you know my own child was violently killed, so yeah it's not like I don't understand or deeply appreciate the need to lay loved ones to rest.

I doubt we'll ever really know but I'd really like to know his thought process with the "disposal."
I think he didn't put the mom with the girls because it was too much of a struggle to carry her up the steps and throw her in. jmo
 
When thinking of a potential pre-planning thought process that CW might have had, I can't help but wonder what that might've looked like.

I've put together a list of my thoughts, and as we do not yet know if it was premeditated, this is completely my own speculation:
  • The seemingly rigorously planned life that SW managed 24/7 would have made CW's options very limited when pre-selecting a day to commit the crime. Her (and his) schedule was something that CW was going to have to maneuver around when thinking of an ideal time.
  • SW was untouchable in NC during those 6 weeks. She was surrounded by family and friends. Too many of "her people" would be asking about them had she and the girls gone missing in NC.
  • We know returning to CO from NC was a quick turnaround time for SW before she had to jet off to AZ for her work trip. In CW’s mind, this would not be an ideal time either; SW would soon be expected at yet another major work event. Too much to deal with, fending off calls and texts from work colleagues wondering why she never showed up In AZ.
  • While SW was in AZ: she was again untouchable during this time. However, the girls were invited to a birthday party as confirmed by a family friend in a MSM interview, which the girls both attended while SW was away. If the girls were also on CW’s radar, then “after the birthday party” had to have played into the timing as well, when thinking of an opportune date.
  • SW was originally expected to return from her AZ trip late night, on Sunday 8/12. As for SW’s doc appointment that was slated for that next day, I suspect CW either didn’t know about it, or had forgotten about it. With how many doctor’s appointments the family as a whole on an ongoing basis, it wouldn’t surprise me to know he didn't remember it, or neglected to consider it.
  • Looking ahead, we know there was going to be a gender reveal party for SW held later that next Saturday, as confirmed by her friend in an MSM interview. This would have been a monumental social event, and one that CW wouldn't be able to fake his way through, IMO.
  • Also, BW was to start kindergarten that next Monday, according to CW in one of his porch interviews. CW wouldn’t want to deal with teachers and other school officials becoming involved in the girls whereabouts.
  • The combination of SW/CW’s meticulous schedule, the looming social events and school, and CW’s goal of wanting to reduce the number of people involved in her and the girls’ search, would lead me to believe that he may have had a clear window of opportunity in his mind, which would be from the moment SW stepped in the door from her work trip, up until the evening before the gender reveal party.
  • Why Sunday night/early Monday morning? Once CW had narrowed it down to that one week, I speculate he wanted it all wrapped up that Sunday night due to starting his new work week. He'd have enough on his plate, between working full time, and continue to clean up his tracks after hours. It was imperative that the bulk of everything had to be completed before the end of the weekend in which SW arrived back home. That, coupled with the growing frustration and anger of knowing he has mentally committed to completing these acts added to the urgency; the sooner he did it, the better. The sooner he could start moving on, selling the house, etc.
JMO.
Wow, this is such a great in-depth analysis! Thank you :)
From what I have seen of CW's behavior and the way the crimes were committed I don't think it was pre-meditated. They were very sloppy, and IF pre-meditated, would show a low iq/lack of planning skills/the perp being as thick as a plank.
 
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