Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #35

[mtnlites]

The problem is what you think you would do and what you actually do in an event like this might be completely different.
jmo

Okay, so having been in that situation I can say with certainty that I would not react in the manner in which CW reacted. And the more than 14,000 members of my private child loss group would undoubtedly say the same, as would many of the members on here who have also lost children in similar ways.

 

[human]

But that scenario is what makes no sense to me. If I see someone strangling my toddler, I am not going to try and strangle an adult to make them stop. That takes TOO LONG and is too unpredictable.

I am going to smash them in the head with a frying pan, bat, heavy object. Or stab them with kitchen knife...something quick and powerful. MY first concern is getting the strangled child air in their lungs at that point. So you knock out the attacker and tend to the child.

That's the problem with his scenario. JMO MOO IMO

What would you have handy in a bedroom? He, working out as he did, could have flipped her aside, but that does not mean she could not jump up and attack him.Apparently that is why LE shoots to kill.

The whole thing makes no sense to me

 

[gitana1]

In a case like this I wonder if the prosecutors are really trying to avoid future appeals since CW will more than likely change lawyers a few times before its all said and done.

Now a public defender may not mind if certain things are released. But a Jose Baez may come in 6 months later and argue that everything should be tossed because the jury pool was tainted due to public release of findings or something. Idk

I really think its strategy to not be left with a jury pool that doesn't read the news and/or becomes aware of the autopsy results and some facts of the case and still doesn't think CW did it.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Usually the prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

But in this case. The defense will have to prove that SW killed the kids beyond a reasonable doubt. Jmo

 

[Layla123]

Okay, so having been in that situation I can say with certainty that I would not react in the manner in which CW reacted. And the more than 14,000 members of my private child loss group would undoubtedly say the same, as would many of the members on here who have also lost children in similar ways.

That pretty much goes for everything C.W. said. You hear it, and you go, “Nah, that doesn’t sound right,” and then you scratch your head and say, “Well, I guess it could have happened like that, but I don’t think so. 1 in a million chances, I mean come on, really?” How many lies does a guy have to tell before you get to to say, “No presumption of innocence for you! You lost it 5 lies ago!”

 

[Amandaaa]

How does it fit with the contention that these reports are only sealed when it is an occurrence that could not be imagined when the legislation was drafted?

exactly.
Here’s a really good editorial on the topic.
Indy and Gazette fight for release of deputy autopsy report

 

[human]

Usually the prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

But in this case. The defense will have to prove that SW killed the kids beyond a reasonable doubt. Jmo

Is SW on trial?

She will be thrown in to cast doubt. She will not be tried as the killer. But it depends what evidence they have

 

[BelleIsle]

What would you have handy in a bedroom? He, working out as he did, could have flipped her aside, but that does not mean she could not jump up and attack him.Apparently that is why LE shoots to kill.

The whole thing makes no sense to me

BBM His fist, a lamp, a heavy book, an alarm clock, a jar of something. But mainly, his fist.

 

[Best of What's Around]

BBM His fist, a lamp, a heavy book, an alarm clock, a jar of something. But mainly, his fist.

Yes, and IMO his sheer body weight and muscle mass to pull her off and push across the room or out the door.

 

[gitana1]

exactly.
Here’s a really good editorial on the topic.
Indy and Gazette fight for release of deputy autopsy report

I've read that. It has nothing to do with this case. Neither CPS nor LE is implicated in the homicides in question here.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Is SW on trial?

She will be thrown in to cast doubt. She will not be tried as the killer. But it depends what evidence they have

Yes she is on trial. They are saying he did what he did because she is the initial double murderer and he should be excused for snapping and then only given a baby slap for the disposal and obstruction charges.

His confession alone should tell you she is now on trial by the defense and the prosecution must show that her being the initial double murderer is highly unlikely.

But you are right. Hopefully he just pleads no contest before he allows his wife's trial to begin. Jmo

 

[katydid23]

What would you have handy in a bedroom? He, working out as he did, could have flipped her aside, but that does not mean she could not jump up and attack him.Apparently that is why LE shoots to kill.

The whole thing makes no sense to me

What would be handy? A lamp, a kids chair, ...? Main point is he is much bigger and stronger. He had options.

He had a 'panic button' on his alarm system. Much like Oscar Pistorius, he never used that panic button, even though he claimed to be fighting for his life.

He could have screamed bloody murder, to get the neighbors involved. If they could hear Dieter howling, they'd hear a father screaming about his dying children---if he wanted them to.

I have no problem with him attacking his wife, IF she was strangling the baby. But she was pregnant with his son. So why strangle her to death, when he had other options?

 

[idfinch]

Yup.
I would be screaming, calling 911 and trying to rouse the neighborhood.

Okay, so having been in that situation I can say with certainty that I would not react in the manner in which CW reacted. And the more than 14,000 members of my private child loss group would undoubtedly say the same, as would many of the members on here who have also lost children in similar ways.

This is the reason I was completely convinced he was lying about SW hurting the girls from the start. I'm still interested in seeing even one case where the father reacted this calmly and smiled when he knew his children had been murdered by someone else.

In contrast (OT for yet another grief/reaction comparison), there was a murder suicide of 2 14 year olds in NC last Monday. They released the 911 calls: Family of murder-suicide victim says she tried to be a good friend :: WRAL.com

"The kids are dead. My daughter has been shot," a man who identified himself as Leonard Hill told a 911 dispatcher. "Oh, my God, you guys get here."

Most of the two 911 calls Johnston County officials released Wednesday are filled with anguished screams and sobs."

THIS is how IMO a father would sound if he found his child or children murdered.

The shock, the horror, the grief. Yes everyone reacts differently, but you will never erase the shirt preening, the lying, and the grins of CW from my mind. Nor the pizza eating and scoping himself out on TV.

She might have died never knowing that the kids were dead, or about to die.

That is the main reason I want to know exactly what happened that night. I pray with everything in me on a daily basis that she didn't know he murdered or was going to murder her daughters.

 

[Nudgee]

I'm not sure. Where I live, we have pre- k, which is not the same as preschool but is similar to what kindergarten used to be many years ago. I don't have all the details about the school situation but I would like to know myself.

I have a relative that lives in GA and put her daughter, who has an October birthdate, in a private school for this year only, allowing her to then enter the public school system next year. Not doing so would have had her daughter wait another year under the public school system....meaning her daughter would be almost 6 when she entered kindergarten. I'm sure all states have their own quidelines.

 

[BelleIsle]

Yes, and IMO his sheer body weight and muscle mass to pull her off and push across the room or out the door.

Yes. Wasn't there recently a discussion in another thread about how difficult it is for the average woman to fight off the average man, simply based on muscle mass, even when their life is at stake? And now we are in this thread, talking about how a pregnant woman with lupus and fibro was able to fight of a 225lb. man (enough to continue her strangling, until ultimately he ran out of options and strangled her) because she was in some sort of rage? Huh?

 

[katydid23]

Is SW on trial?

She will be thrown in to cast doubt. She will not be tried as the killer. But it depends what evidence they have

True about the evidence. If they have texts from SW to CW saying ' if you leave me, I will kill the kids' , or something similar--then she will be on trial too.

But if there is nothing to indicate she was that heated or crazy/desperate, then I don't think they will be able to really go there in any believable way. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Yes. Wasn't there recently a discussion in another thread about how difficult it is for the average woman to fight off the average man, simply based on muscle mass, even when their life is at stake? And now we are in this thread, talking about how a pregnant woman with lupus and fibro was able to fight of a 225lb. man (enough to continue her strangling, until ultimately he ran out of options and strangled her) because she was in some sort of rage? Huh?

And all he needed to do was get her off the child, grab the baby and run outside, screaming for help.

 

[Amandaaa]

I've read that. It has nothing to do with this case. Neither CPS nor LE is implicated in the homicides in question here.

Actually, it has a lot to do with this case - and your question.
These documents are assumed to be public. In order to hold them back, you have to meet the “substantial injury to the public” standard - except that isn’t defined anywhere, so they had to interpret it - and they decided it meant something really unusual that the legislature couldn’t have anticipated (because they specifically made autopsy reports public, with no exceptions)

So now you have a statute and interpretation of the language - add in a whole bunch of varying situations and complications and a variety of judges (some more inclined than others to protect the public’s right to know) - and you get this situation.

The bottom line is that they are public documents unless you can meet the standard. The DA may not want to release them for any number of reasons, maybe just because it makes things more complicated, but it doesn’t matter - they are public unless they successfully argue they should be sealed.

I’ve dealt with this myself. We had a really incendiary situation happen and we had video of it. It made the news immediately and was all over the place - all over the country - politicians chiming in. I kept getting FOI requests for the video - which technically was a public record and had to be disclosed. It didn’t meet any of the very narrow exceptions in the statute - but it was clear that if it was released to the media, all hell would break loose. The video showed the exact opposite of what was claimed to have happened. The DA called and explained the situation to me and I said I would see what I could do. I called the Open government entity (they write the opinions) and they agreed with me that it shouldn’t be released - even though technically, it didn’t meet any of the criteria. It was a super unusual situation that would create an enormous problem. Clearly, something the legislature could not have anticipated.

 

[Layla123]

BBM His fist, a lamp, a heavy book, an alarm clock, a jar of something. But mainly, his fist.

This is what CW wants us to believe. After noticing one of his children dead, blue, and sprawled out on her bed, he stood there, watching while his wife strangled his other child to death. He made no effort to stop the strangulation in process. Then when it was all over, he was very angry, he was enraged, so he walked down the hall, and into the bedroom where his wife was, walked over to her, saying nothing to her, and she said nothing to him, no screams, no loud angry words, then he put his hands around her neck, and he strangled her to death. She made no attempt to stop him or defend herself. She stayed very still and allowed him to kill her.

 

[pocketaccent]

True about the evidence. If they have texts from SW to CW saying ' if you leave me, I will kill the kids' , or something similar--then she will be on trial too.

But if there is nothing to indicate she was that heated or crazy/desperate, then I don't think they will be able to really go there in any believable way. JMO

BBM
I believe MassGuy said that he will eat his hat if we find such messages from SW. I agree with him.