Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #39

[margarita25]

If there is no more in the autopsy results, than we already know, why seal it? If there is evidence that supports CW's story, it still goes to the defense, and I would think the defense would move for a reconsideration of the charges and for bail. For me the strongest reason for the prosecution to seal the autopsy results is because it proves ALL the charges against him, and the actual details/evidence are very disturbing!

I would love to hear from one or more of the attorneys!

I am so grateful to have our attorneys here..as I’ve said before thank GOODNESS I didn’t go to Law School, I would’ve failed out miserably, my ADD can baaarely handle reading all this legal jargon here. It’s like my brain just doesn’t comprehend it. I have to read each sentence like 5 times hahaha.)

(ETA: And even then I don’t get it Lol)

 

[Moonracer]

(Sorry NuttMegg - I meant to respond to @MsBetsy!)
The drone didn't detect them in the tanks. Here is what the affidavit says:

While in the bedroom, via baby monitor located on Shanann's night stand, he observed Bella "sprawled" out on her bed and blue and Shanann actively strangling Celeste. Chris said he went into a rage and ultimately strangled Shanann to death. Chris said he loaded all three bodies onto the back seat of his work truck and took them to an oil work site identified as CERVI 319 with GPS ...
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

Respectfully snipped by me and the word "ultimately" bolded: I am zooming in on the word "ultimately," because by using that word, CW can expand on this confession, and add all sorts of things, such as "First, I pushed SW away from Celeste and tried to revive her, then I rushed to Bella, then knew they were dead and only then I gave into the rage that started when I saw the 'active' strangling, and strangled her when she laughed at what she had done..." etc etc etc. Of course, I feel anything of the sort would just be lies. But, he's evidently very interested in staying alive and maybe even getting free, so I would not be surprised if the confession is fleshed out to make him look good. Just my thoughts, no way to prove he will exploit the word "ultimately."

Edited to snip more and fix spelling

 

[Mellowmelly]

He is and there are many videos like that. Growing up in my family, kids were taught very early on not to screech and scream, particularly indoors. So for me the parents (and Dieter!) seem particularly patient! I would need permanent ear plugs to get by in that household myself

Yes it definitely seemed like a relaxed household, neither CW or SW came across as strict IMO. It is shocking that a seemingly relaxed normal looking family can end up in this situation. IMO

 

[mtnlites]

I am so grateful to have our attorneys here..as I’ve said before thank GOODNESS I didn’t go to Law School, I would’ve failed out miserably, my ADD can baaarely handle reading all this legal jargon here. It’s like my brain just doesn’t comprehend it. I have to read each sentence like 5 times hahaha.)

Yes! Attorneys like @gitana1 and @Mrspratcher and @Alethea have really kept me out of the dark with their explanations of some of the legalese. I am grateful.

 

[margarita25]

@margarita25 , will you tell me more about your thoughts on drones you were thinking last night? Thanks.

WildWest, thank you so much for bringing me back to that post.

As mentioned, drones are becoming standard in many LE operations.

As a local, out of curiosity, I was wondering if Weld Co had a drone, or which LE Neighbor might have provided one.

I’ve actually done some research on drones in this area in other cases.
The link I provided last night, my convo with our dearly departed Foxy, had a little discussion on that.

In the case of Rita Gutierrez ( Deceased/Not Found - CO - Rita Gutierrez-Garcia, 34, Longmont, 18 March 2018 )
her brother Omar at one time was asking for people with drones to help.
Nicole Silvers ( CO - CO - Nicole Silvers, 16, Longmont, 8 April 2014 )
is still missing out of Weld County, as is
Ault PD Seeks Info in Missing Persons Case | Colorado Bureau of Investigation

Then of course there’s one of my “pet cases”, aka “NOCO” ; (My profile signature has a link to the NOCO Task Force And Link to Thread 1 NOCO for reference)

A side note. local to the area is Digital Globe / TOMNOD. Yes the people who fly satellites for google maps and do crowdsourcing as in (was it looking for downed Malaysia Air?).

DigitalGlobe - See a Better World With High-Resolution Satellite Imagery

Tomnod

Anyway Back to the Weld County possible epiphany, it hit me that Weld County is only one of many HIgH RANKiNG agencies on the NOCO Task Force. Meaning Weld County has some serious close connections as these guys literally all got together regularly for the Task Force meetings (or so they said haha JK - are they still?) Anyway they have a relationship for years. This is what I wanted to touch on but need coffee first. :coffee:

(Tech issues, having trouble posting,
Heading to tech problems thread)

Note to self:
1.List Agencies (some were too secret to name at one point)
2: Link new LAB!!
(ETA:
This is not the new article I’m looking for but wanted to post this re: CBI Lab turnarounds etc:

Officials say new CBI crime lab will make analysis more efficient – The Denver Post )

“The goal for this year is average turnaround time of 120 days in all disciplines,” Fetherston said. “We’re looking to improve that as time goes on.””

Snip

“New items at the lab include new DNA equipment, HVAC and electrical systems specifically designed for CBI and a generator backup.

“We have every discipline that any modern forensic science lab would have,” Fetherston said.”

CBI will open new forensic lab next week in ribbon-cutting event – The Denver Post

CBI to move metro-area forensics lab from Lakewood to Arvada – The Denver Post

““Forensic analysis is under constant scrutiny by the defense community and the criminal justice community,” said Jan Girten, CBI’s deputy director of forensic services. “To have a lab that is state of the art with up-to-date equipment allows us to do the highest quality analysis.”“

Snip

““We’re always looking to have state or world headquarters here,” Williams said. “You can’t get much better than having CBI.”“

——
Never mind, that’s not for Weld County it appears (the new lab and article I was thinking of)

“The capacity to run their own DNA tests and analysis will be the biggest difference, officials said.

“We have great partners in the Colorado Bureau of Investigations, but they were clearly not built or funded to handle the volume of things that we’re now able to do,” said George Brauchler, district attorney for the 18th Judicial District.

Brauchler said they will now have the ability to seek DNA results on smaller cases, ones that could have taken months at the state lab — or might not even be requested at all.

“We’re talking property theft, burglary, maybe car thefts,” he said. “Things that right now if we submitted those DNA results to our overwhelmed partners at CBI, they would say, ‘We’re going to have to put this further back in the queue as we deal with rapes, robberies, murders.’ ”

Douglas, Arapahoe counties, city of Aurora open regional crime lab
——

Bare with me guys please I know I’m all over the place right now. Still working on this post. I have an hour.

Gah I’m about to run out of allotted 60 min editing time, been a while since I’ve done that, timed out in a post (and I even snuck in an extra 20 minutes sorry about pulling a switcheroo on you @Mrspratcher and pommy

Marking spot re: list of agencies working wth Weld CO
CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #4

I sweaaaaar just now autocorrect almost typed “Deiteroo” instead of “switcheroo”

One point here: This case will have immediate access to resources, agencies, etc that are top notch.

(5, 4, 3, 2, 1, beeeeepppp )

 

[PommyMommy]

Respectfully snipped by me and the word "ultimately" bolded: I am zooming in on the word "ultimately," because by using that word, CW can expand on this confession, and add all sorts of things, such as "First, I pushed SW away from Celeste and tried to revive her, then I rushed to Bella, then knew they were dead and only then I gave into the rage that started when I saw the 'active' strangling, and strangled her when she laughed at what she had done..." etc etc etc. Of course, I feel anything of the sort would just be lies. But, he's evidently very interested in staying alive and maybe even getting free, so I would not be surprised if the confession is fleshed out to make him look good. Just my thoughts, no way to prove he will exploit the word "ultimately."

Edited to snip more and fix spelling

I assume the interrogation(s) were recorded and the "ultimately" will be made clear in one way or another at trial when that evidence is introduced. I don't think it was him who necessarily used the word "ultimately."
MOO

 

[WildWest]

Welcome @porttaylor8

 

[PommyMommy]

Welcome to Websleuths, @porttaylor8! ​

 

[Best of What's Around]

Yes it definitely seemed like a relaxed household, neither CW or SW came across as strict IMO. It is shocking that a seemingly relaxed normal looking family can end up in this situation. IMO

YES, you summarized my point better than I could. IMO this is why this FA case will be a particularly historic one, because while we might have heard from other cases that the parents, including the perpetrator, were "normal" and "loving"...there was not the incredible SM evidence of it. It was too easy for some of us (including myself) to believe that oh sure, they seemed normal, but I would have noticed how OFF the perpetrator seemed. I don't in any of these videos. Granted, they are just a snippet of life, where all parties knew they were on camera. But the kids also show no signs of walking on eggshells around either parent, which is telling. The whole thing is so difficult to wrap your mind around as a result of our window to their family life IMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, and she managed to murder two children in that moment that he went downstairs, came back upstairs, walked past their rooms and saw her on the monitor.

Right. He would have had to say he went downstairs, or maybe to the bathroom, in order to leave time enough for her to strangle each child. It would have to be a 6-10 minute period of time, I would think. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

Respectfully snipped by me and the word "ultimately" bolded: I am zooming in on the word "ultimately," because by using that word, CW can expand on this confession, and add all sorts of things, such as "First, I pushed SW away from Celeste and tried to revive her, then I rushed to Bella, then knew they were dead and only then I gave into the rage that started when I saw the 'active' strangling, and strangled her when she laughed at what she had done..." etc etc etc. Of course, I feel anything of the sort would just be lies. But, he's evidently very interested in staying alive and maybe even getting free, so I would not be surprised if the confession is fleshed out to make him look good. Just my thoughts, no way to prove he will exploit the word "ultimately."

Edited to snip more and fix spelling

Yes, but was it he who used the word "ultimately," or LE? I asumed it was whoever wrote the report.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes it definitely seemed like a relaxed household, neither CW or SW came across as strict IMO. It is shocking that a seemingly relaxed normal looking family can end up in this situation. IMO

I guess you never know what goes on behind closed doors.

 

[Moonracer]

Here's a lovely pic of little Dieter. I'm sure he'll be absolutely treasured in his new home. He's the only living reminder of the family.

View attachment 149899

Shanann

I do not know if it has been noted, but in the SW video with the mint-flavored drink, when SW is doing a video in her jammies, she cautions CW who is holding Dieter, and she says, "Don't choke him." Dieter was the only one not choked (that we know of). It just seems extra-sad and prophetic to me. CW didn't choke Dieter, but how could he (in MOO) choke the girls? I just cannot understand this at all, no matter how mad anyone got, how does that happen? Other than in drug or substance-fueled blackout, or brain tumor, or severe head injury, how could this happen? No matter what CW says, I will never be able to understand this. MOO
EDITING to add, how does this happen with someone who does not have a past of criminal or evil behavior?

 

[riolove77]

I do not know if it has been noted, but in the SW video with the mint-flavored drink, when SW is doing a video in her jammies, she cautions CW who is holding Dieter, and she says, "Don't choke him." Dieter was the only one not choked (that we know of). It just seems extra-sad and prophetic to me. CW didn't choke Dieter, but how could he (in MOO) choke the girls? I just cannot understand this at all, no matter how mad anyone got, how does that happen? Other than in drug or substance-fueled blackout, or brain tumor, or severe head injury, how could this happen? No matter what CW says, I will never be able to understand this. MOO
EDITING to add, how does this happen with someone who does not have a past of criminal or evil behavior?

You gotta remember that the dumbfounding thing with these family annihilator cases looking back is that they almost NEVER have any history of criminal actions or evil behavior. That's what makes them so much worse. People start digging to see what they can find to give them some nugget of understanding, like oh okay there it is, I can see how now...but you end up with accounts much like this video of them with Dieter.

I think psychologically we want to understand, we want to find something, anything, because lord how scary is it that they can be THIS normal until it's too late? But unfortunately, this is just a characteristic of FAs...

 

[cailleach]

WildWest, thank you so much for bringing me back to that post.

As mentioned, drones are becoming standard in many LE operations.

As a local, out of curiosity, I was wondering if Weld Co had a drone, or which LE Neighbor might have provided one.

I’ve actually done some research on drones in this area in other cases.
The link I provided last night, my convo with our dearly departed Foxy, had a little discussion on that.

In the case of Rita Gutierrez ( Deceased/Not Found - CO - Rita Gutierrez-Garcia, 34, Longmont, 18 March 2018 )
her brother Omar at one time was asking for people with drones to help.
Nicole Silvers ( CO - CO - Nicole Silvers, 16, Longmont, 8 April 2014 )
is still missing out of Weld County, as is
Ault PD Seeks Info in Missing Persons Case | Colorado Bureau of Investigation

Then of course there’s one of my “pet cases”, aka “NOCO” ; (My profile signature has a link to the NOCO Task Force And Link to Thread 1 NOCO for reference)

A side note. local to the area is Digital Globe / TOMNOD. Yes the people who fly satellites for google maps and do crowdsourcing as in (was it looking for downed Malaysia Air?).

DigitalGlobe - See a Better World With High-Resolution Satellite Imagery

Anyway Back to the Weld County possible epiphany, it hit me that Weld County is only one of many HIgH RANKiNG agencies on the NOCO Task Force. Meaning Weld County has some serious close connections as these guys literally all got together regularly for the Task Force meetings (or so they said haha JK - are they still?) Anyway they have a relationship for years. This is what I wanted to touch on but need coffee first. :coffee:


(Tech issues, having trouble posting,
Heading to tech problems thread)

Note to self:
1.List Agencies (some were too secret to name at one point)
2: Link new LAB!!
(ETA:
This is not the new article I’m looking for but wanted to post this re: CBI Lab turnarounds etc:

Officials say new CBI crime lab will make analysis more efficient – The Denver Post )

CBI will open new forensic lab next week in ribbon-cutting event – The Denver Post

CBI to move metro-area forensics lab from Lakewood to Arvada – The Denver Post

““Forensic analysis is under constant scrutiny by the defense community and the criminal justice community,” said Jan Girten, CBI’s deputy director of forensic services. “To have a lab that is state of the art with up-to-date equipment allows us to do the highest quality analysis.”“

Snip

““We’re always looking to have state or world headquarters here,” Williams said. “You can’t get much better than having CBI.”“

Bare with me guy I know I’m all over the place right now. Still working on this post. I have an hour.

I've been reading about the new lab also. I love it's "State of the Art" technology. Colorado needed this and I believe it will prove to be an asset in cases just like this one. I honestly believe the situation with the girls submerged in crude oil will prove to be an opportunity for learning and, hopefully, will set precedents on how similar cases will be handled. That felt very cold to type, so I hope my WS peeps understand it was not intended as such. I find the situation appalling and grievous.

 

[cailleach]

I do not know if it has been noted, but in the SW video with the mint-flavored drink, when SW is doing a video in her jammies, she cautions CW who is holding Dieter, and she says, "Don't choke him." Dieter was the only one not choked (that we know of). It just seems extra-sad and prophetic to me. CW didn't choke Dieter, but how could he (in MOO) choke the girls? I just cannot understand this at all, no matter how mad anyone got, how does that happen? Other than in drug or substance-fueled blackout, or brain tumor, or severe head injury, how could this happen? No matter what CW says, I will never be able to understand this. MOO
EDITING to add, how does this happen with someone who does not have a past of criminal or evil behavior?

MOO is sociopaths walk among us. They aren't a breed that necessarily stands out until their heinous crimes are revealed. We can't see them just by looking at them, they are generally smart and cunning, and the people around them most often do not know what they are dealing with.

 

[katydid23]

My best guess is that he's confident his DNA will not be found on their necks. To that end if he didn't wear gloves, he made sure that he didn't put his bare hands on their necks. He could have used a ligature, twisted the pillowcases to strangle them or smothered them with a pillow. There has to be a reason why the pillowcases were in the trash can.

And if he used a pillowcase from SW's pillow, would that leave her touch DNA on the girl's tiny necks?

 

[MollyDDD]

Yes it definitely seemed like a relaxed household, neither CW or SW came across as strict IMO. It is shocking that a seemingly relaxed normal looking family can end up in this situation. IMO

I agree. How could it have all ended so violently, so barbaric, so ugly and hateful? Like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

 

[PommyMommy]

I do not know if it has been noted, but in the SW video with the mint-flavored drink, when SW is doing a video in her jammies, she cautions CW who is holding Dieter, and she says, "Don't choke him." Dieter was the only one not choked (that we know of). It just seems extra-sad and prophetic to me. CW didn't choke Dieter, but how could he (in MOO) choke the girls? I just cannot understand this at all, no matter how mad anyone got, how does that happen? Other than in drug or substance-fueled blackout, or brain tumor, or severe head injury, how could this happen? No matter what CW says, I will never be able to understand this. MOO
EDITING to add, how does this happen with someone who does not have a past of criminal or evil behavior?

Most family annihilators don't have a criminal record.

Jeffrey MacDonald was voted both "most popular" and "most likely to succeed,” in high school, was Senior Class President, captain of the football team and won a scholarship to Princeton. After three years at Princeton, he attended and graduated from Northwestern University Medical School, joined the Army where he held the rank of Captain and was assigned as a Group Surgeon.

Robert Fisher was a US Navy Veteran and had worked as a surgical catheter technician, respiratory therapist and a firefighter. He was also an avid outdoorsman, hunter, and fisherman. At the time of the murders, he was an active member of the men's ministry at a Baptist Church, although he had begun to withdraw from activities. In 1998, he had admitted to cheating on his wife, and he and his wife sought marital counseling through their church.

Here are some resources that may help:

Experts have profile of fathers who kill family
According to the criminologist David Wilson, quoted in this article, family annihilators are distinctive among murderers in typically being previously unknown to the criminal justice system – or even mental health services. He explains: Wilson and other researchers have come to distinguish family annihilators of four main types: self-righteous, anomic, disappointed, and paranoid. The self-righteous type blames others, often their wives or estranged wives, for their downfall. The anomic type feels humiliated by external events like bankruptcy. The disappointed type feels let down by his family, as if the social order is crumbling. The paranoid type feels his kin is under threat from outsiders. So, to stave off the threat, he takes it upon himself to murder them.

“Family Annihilators”: Understanding What Drives Fathers to Kill | TIME.com
While previous research found that “annihilators” are often characterized by failure, most of the men in the current sample were employed — and had jobs ranging from surgeon to librarian to taxi driver.

Yardley and her team deduced a primary motive for each father’s actions; among the immediate answers to why they did what they did, family breakup was the most common, ahead of financial difficulties and “honor killings,” in which “the father was reported to have felt shamed by the actions of his family.” The most unifying feature among the 59 killers was a perceived threat to their masculinity and a desire to exert power or control. “The family is in a very precarious position,” Yardley says. “Should ‘the family’ as he knows it change due to internal or external factors, this has serious implications for his sense of self.”

‘Family Annihilator’ evades justice for 42 years - Rocky Mount Telegram
With five bodies in the trunk of the station wagon, Bishop drove through the night about 300 miles south to a rural spot in coastal Tyrrell County, about an hour from Elizabeth City, according to court records.

Bishop dug a hole, dumped the bodies inside and set them on fire. Later that day, he stopped at a sporting goods store and used a credit card to purchase a pair of sneakers. He had Leo with him on a leash.

No one knows for sure why Bishop apparently killed his family, other than the obvious — to get rid of them and start a new life. Such killers are known as Family Annihilators.

 

[Seattle1]

In addition to preserving the integrity of the trial and not taint pending witnesses, and/or jury pool per the People's motion, I think it's also important to understand the culture in Colorado.

Colorado recently PASSED a house bill to protect privacy of minors by sealing their autopsy reports (Watts girls only 3 & 4 yrs of age). Responding to pressures from 1st amendment advocates and media lobbyists, Colorado's Governor vetoed the bill just a couple months ago. Although I'd like to see the reports not disclosed until trial, I believe Media will overrule here. From a link last night, they've already got the best attorneys in the land working on the argument pursuant to CORA and FOIA. I expect a ruling to release the autopsy reports sooner than later. MOO

ETA on my own post: there was much discussion earlier about the coroner making disclosure decisions as legal custodian of record versus the prosecution motion and want to add that the House Bill above protecting minors was actually initiated by coroner in El Paso County (Colo Springs).

 

[katydid23]

Respectfully snipped by me and the word "ultimately" bolded: I am zooming in on the word "ultimately," because by using that word, CW can expand on this confession, and add all sorts of things, such as "First, I pushed SW away from Celeste and tried to revive her, then I rushed to Bella, then knew they were dead and only then I gave into the rage that started when I saw the 'active' strangling, and strangled her when she laughed at what she had done..." etc etc etc. Of course, I feel anything of the sort would just be lies. But, he's evidently very interested in staying alive and maybe even getting free, so I would not be surprised if the confession is fleshed out to make him look good. Just my thoughts, no way to prove he will exploit the word "ultimately."

Edited to snip more and fix spelling

Right, he might add that bolded part to his confession. The problem for him, is that if he knew the girls were already dead, then that takes away his legal justification for killing his pregnant wife. He is no longer protecting his daughters. And he is also killing his unborn son.