Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #40

[bonjoviblonde]

You say you won't entertain anything CW says because he is a liar. Do you believe CW killed his pregnant wife?

Yep I sure do. So I guess if I don't believe his lies about killing his children or knowing where they were or all of the other lies he told on his front porch, I'm not supposed to believe he killed his wife either? Because he could be lying about that too, right? You are right about one thing, people have their mind made up for now with what we have so far. I feel perfectly fine saying I believe he killed his children along with his pregnant wife. I'm absolutely open to changing that opinion when I see something other than his word or other people's opinions on what kind of person SW was.

 

[Amonet]

Yikes! I like almost all of those songs.

I like Metallica Maybe I should stick to listening to them through headphones in future, I wouldn't want the neighbors to think I'm a psychopath

 

[tmar]

Yes and I'm sure most of us who think he's guilty have considered both possibilities. If we didn't want to discuss and "investigate" the crime, I doubt we would be here. I have seen absolutely nothing that would make me think SW killed the children and everything to make me believe CW did it. At least at this point. It's true we don't have all of the evidence but as of now, I firmly believe CW did this. I've seen nothing on her SM videos that mean anything to me regarding this case. Her "oversharing", if you will, on social media does not trump what we KNOW about CW's actions and lies. I refuse to minimize what CW did or said on the "chance" that there's something about SW that we don't know yet.

I'm willing to be proven wrong at trial but oversharing online, spending too much money, being a little bossy, or even proof that SW had depression or anxiety at any time in her life will not do it. It almost seems like some are actually hoping something big and bad comes out about SW so that CW can be innocent. In any case, CW is not innocent and never will be. He murdered his wife and unborn son and he disposed of their bodies in a disgusting manner. He also had an affair and lied and lied and lied after he knew what happened to his family, no matter who killed those girls. Those are and will always be facts of this case. He's a monster. What are the odds there are two monster parents in that family?

Yes, SW's family had a monster in their midst.
I am thinking about SW's parents, her brother.
We saw them in Court: absolutely shattered.
We also saw CW. His stone face. YUK, YUK.

SW's family will be affected by these murders for the rest of their lives.
SW and these innocent kiddies murdered.
Why?

 

[MassGuy]

You say you won't entertain anything CW says because he is a liar. Do you believe CW killed his pregnant wife?

I believe CW killed his pregnant wife, not only because he says he did, but because the evidence strongly supports it.

SW didn’t bury herself in a shallow grave.

Those kids didn’t stuff themselves into oil tanks.

Only a killer has reason to do those things.

Only a monster could bring himself to do those things.

 

[gitana1]

The two I read from @MollyDDD post were Unforgiven and Bully.

Wow. This matches with my unprofessional theory that he had an annihilated personality and subsumed identity and thus annihilated his family rather than look like a bad guy to his family of origin by leaving a pregnant wife and two kids for some affair. It also goes with the simmering rage/resentment theory:

"What I've felt, what I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be, never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt, what I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free, never me
So I dub thee "Unforgiven""

https://www.google.com/amp/s/genius.com/amp/Metallica-the-unforgiven-lyrics

 

[Jennifer17]

I don't believe that he killed his wife because he said so. I believe that he killed his wife because she was found in a shallow grave at his workplace, after he denied and lied about knowing her whereabouts.
I don't base my opinion on any of the lies he told and kept on telling.

 

[gitana1]

The two I read from @MollyDDD post were Unforgiven and Bully.

Geez. And the second one? Holy smokes.

 

[gitana1]

Delete

 

[Amonet]

Wow. This matches with my unprofessional theory that he had an annihilated personality and subsumed identity and thus annihilated his family rather than look like a bad guy to his family of origin by leaving a pregnant wife and two kids for some affair. It also goes with the simmering rage/resentment theory:

"What I've felt, what I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be, never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt, what I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free, never me
So I dub thee "Unforgiven""

https://www.google.com/amp/s/genius.com/amp/Metallica-the-unforgiven-lyrics

But it's also an absolutely beautiful tune and song! It's powerful and soft and everything all mixed together.

It's not their fault that CW likes them

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Bottom line you don’t kill your children unless you have some type of defect. I highly doubt SW killed her children, the time line CW gave police is very suspect and has holes in it. Marriages like theirs play out every day, all over the world, they end in divorce.

 

[tmar]

There are obviously things we don't know yet but there are quite a few things we do know. See Gitana's long list at the beginning of every thread. Those are things we DO know and some people think 2 + 2 = 4 in this case. As I said, I refuse to minimize what we already know about CW in the hopes of what may be to come. If something more comes out, then I will reevaluate my opinion.

With what we do know, is 2 + 2 does equal 4.
But soon we will hear loads more, then 4 ++++, all the way to guilty LWOP.

 

[gitana1]

But it's also an absolutely beautiful tune and song! It's powerful and soft and everything all mixed together.

It's not their fault that CW likes them

No. Not at all! Just interesting that those are the only ones he featured.

 

[Amonet]

I don't believe that he killed his wife because he said so. I believe that he killed his wife because she was found in a shallow grave at his workplace, after he denied and lied about knowing her whereabouts.
I don't base my opinion on any of the lies he told and kept on telling.

Yes, it was obvious to me that he'd killed Shanann from the context of the locked house and no way out except for his truck, and from his own words in the media interviews he did.

The way he talked about the children in those interviews gave a strong impression to me that he'd also killed them.

 

[tmar]

I tried to look into TBI as a symptom and it seems that so many active athletes get traumatized. The only definitive way to diagnose chronic traumatic encephalopathy is postmortem, they say.

Yes, Aaron Hernandez Suffered Brain Injury. But That May Not Explain His Violence.

Aaron Hernandez also carried genetic marker for "certain brain diseases". (I think I know what it was, but don't want to mention, as it is not in mainstream articles - maybe the court proceeding is not over?).

Aaron Hernandez suffered from most severe CTE ever found in a person his age

Anyhow, unless you have a history of CW playing aggressive sports, or having a severe brain trauma (diagnosed), or a family history of Alzheimer's or other early dementing illnesses, it won't fly in court.

Didn't AH commit suicide after being found Guilty?

 

[Mrspratcher]

Didn't AH commit suicide after being found Guilty?

First trial he was found guilty. Second trial he was found not guilty, and IIRC committed suicide a few days later.

 

[MsBetsy]

See, I just have to point out that when a post begins with an implication that people not of an opinion don't use logic, it's not conducive to a sincerely open-minded conversation.

Which is likely a big reason also that other theories haven't been laid out in the thread--there is a distinct lack of sincerity about really wanting to know why people have other theories--the motive seems to be less gaining understanding and more fight picking.

I'm not sure why that would keep people from posting their thoughts and theories. In assuming CW killed his family, there have been posts suggesting some are speculating in order to fit their own theories, instead of being open to all possibilities. Yet that has not stopped the continual theories to support their beliefs. I think many would like to hear different theories, it definitely makes it more interesting and gives us something to consider. Many have asked for different views as to what evidence may support the theory that SW killed her children, yet, still, we have not had any. I for one, would very much like to understand. Maybe its just frustrating because people hint at the possibility but won't provide evidence or a reason why it makes sense. Jmo

 

[mtnlites]

But it's also an absolutely beautiful tune and song! It's powerful and soft and everything all mixed together.

It's not their fault that CW likes them

Yeah, I have some problems with that whole study. People listen to music and digest it in different ways. Music is extremely subjective and what one person gets from it may not be what someone else does. I've always been into lyrics myself, but my husband is into the actual accompaniment. If you asked him what his favorite songs are, he could tell you their names but couldn't quote a single line. Sometimes artists, like Eminem, also write songs as satire and their lyrics aren't always meant to be taken at face value. Eminem is also known for writing lyrics that are provocative to intentionally bring light to subjects that people don't want to talk about. "Lose Yourself", as mentioned in that study, is a really good song about having ambition and rising above your situation to reach your goals and dreams. My favorite type of music is bluegrass and Appalachian folk and those songs are full of murder ballads. I don't like them for their subject matter, but because they tell linear stories. People have always enjoyed reading tragedies.

With that being said, it's definitely interesting to know CW's "likes" and the type of songs that continually come up as being favorites for psychopaths IS pretty fascinating.

 

[Layla123]

But it just seems that its important to keep an open mind to all possibilities at this point and wait until trial to make a final determination. I just think the beauty of WS is that its a safe place to discuss all possibilities and explore ideas but what seems to be happening is very entrenched POVs and we are months away from trial. I'm not sure why this is the case here?

My mind closed up tight when I learned C.W. dumped those innocent little girls in those nasty, green tanks filled with crude oil. I’ll follow the trial, and when C.W. provides a Defense proving his innocence, I’ll apologize, but I’m still going to hate him.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

Just to be clear the following is said with respect and in a calm, reasonable voice:
Believing CW is the same thing as accusing SW. Unless you think there is 3rd option we have not explored, one of them murdered the girls. So if you believe CW, why do you feel comfortable accusing SW? If you don't believe CW why are you uncomfortable accusing the admitted murderer, cheater and liar CW? More info will not change the fact that SW was murdered by CW. What evidence that we have thus far has lead you to give a murderer more benefit of the doubt than the one he murdered? Because when you say you are "waiting for more information" about who could have killed the girls it is the same thing as giving CW the benefit of doubt as to whether he is telling the truth. MOO.

Perfectly stated, Gardener.

And JMO but this beating around the bush is growing very tiresome. I wish those who want to explore CW's version of events would just put their theories out there already, along with an explanation for his subsequent lies and coverup.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Respectfully (and I know I’m in the minority here) I don’t happen to agree.

With *only* the facts as currently known, I am not at all convinced he would be convicted.

There are so many unknowns - I think it’s entirely possible for a skillful attorney to craft a very compelling argument that would create reasonable doubt.

Now, a few caveats - this is NOT reflective of my personal opinion on the issue of what actually happened that night - AND I’m sure LE knows a lot more than we do (so these *won’t* be the only facts when the trial comes around - and as more becomes known, that will obviously change things)

Yes I was not including you as one of the attorneys. However, couple of questions for you:

(1) while you point out that you are not at all convinced he would be convicted on the current evidence and think there is a compelling argument to create reasonable doubt (which I do wish you would share ), are you also saying there is not an excellent case to be made here by the prosecution, based on what we know?

(2) Do you agree convictions have been made (e.g. Scott Peterson) on the same or less evidence?

(3) While you have some thoughts on a great defense to be made, I do note now and from past posts that you mention your own personal viewpoint may differ. I suspect you think he is guilty. Am I right? And I assume that is from the evidence we currently see. So in your professional opinion, am I right to assume that you think there are avenues for a great defense case, but you personally believe at this point he looks guilty and could be convicted on what we have?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tmar]

Boy were they wrong.

CW perhaps doesn't hurt flies.
It is called 'family murders' that he is capable of.