Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Deleted member 182072]

Morning! I'm obsessing on this case. It's disturbing to read the comments on Shanann's
SM videos (you tube), essentially blaming her for getting murdered! They can't see through Chris' Perfect Helpful Hubby mask.

I'm extremely disturbed by all the victim blaming as well. IMO, CW is as vile as it gets and I find it unfathomable that anyone would sympathize with him. Words really can't express how much contempt I have for CW and how much disgust I have for the victim blamers out there.

Regardless of how you feel about MLMs, Shanann worked hard earning money to support her family, while her sorry excuse for a husband was wasting so much time and money that should have gone to his family on his affairs instead.

That pathetic excuse for a 'father' was too greedy and selfish to just divorce her. He wanted all his time and money to go to his nasty hookups instead of looking after of his kids every other weekend, paying child support, etc., so he came up with a plan to make his family disappear.

And he would have been just fine with letting his own family and friends go through an endless nightmare of worrying about what could have happened to Shanann, Bella and Cece if they were never found. That didn't matter to him as long as he got his own happily ever after. MOO

 

[WildWest]

THe court doesn’t have jurisdiction to consider the motion by the DA (to seal the autopsy reports)

The custodian has to file separately, independently of the criminal proceeding. All interested parties (those that have made CORA requests, etc) will be given notice and opportunity to be heard.

I apologize for remedial questions, who is the custodian. A lot of pressure on the custodian whoever it is!

 

[Nikynoo]

I don't think there's another reason DA filed. He filed a preemptive motion on a date that the Coroner could not file a petition because there was no report. In this case, the court actually deemed that the Weld County DA was the custodian of the autopsy reports. While it's statute that the Coroner is Custodian, the court is empowered to deem other as custodian, and did so. And yes - the DA is preserving the right to fair trial and investigation.

The court was wrong and has issued a motion advising that it does not have jurisdiction and that the DA is not the custodian.

 

[Nikynoo]

I apologize for remedial questions, who is the custodian. A lot of pressure on the custodian whoever it is!

the Custodian is the person responsible for maintaining the document in question. In this case the Coroner is responsible for the maintenance of the document and is therefore the Custodian. The Coroner needs to file with the court to have the autopsies sealed and it cannot be part of the Watts case.

 

[Sheenaisapunkrocker]

Welcome Chaddylex!

Good summary. The one thing I disagree on is the CW has low self-esteem. He esteems himself so highly that he believed he had a right to be the center of SW's attention. He believed he had a right to have affairs during their marriage. He believed he had a right to murder his wife and children when they stopped being valuable to him. And he was very egotistical in thinking he would get away with this and in his lies to the press. Someone with such a low self-worth would not be so cocky as to think he could get away with it-- he would end up committing suicide instead (either before or after the crime). JMO.

Agreed. From what I've read about covert narcissists, they can appear to have low self esteem by playing the victim to get attention and sympathy. CW meets at least a few of these IMO.

7 Signs of a Covert Introvert Narcissist

7 signs of a covert narcissist:
- quiet smugness, superiority
- self absorption
- lack of empathy
- passive aggressiveness
- highly sensitive
- the "misunderstood special person"
- impersonal and difficult relationships

 

[kebdal23]

THe court doesn’t have jurisdiction to consider the motion by the DA (to seal the autopsy reports)

The custodian has to file separately, independently of the criminal proceeding. All interested parties (those that have made CORA requests, etc) will be given notice and opportunity to be heard.

Wait....what? I sometimes miss a day of the boards and it appears I've missed something important. Why would the DA want to seal the autopsy reports unless it shows something that we don't expect? I can see why CW would want them sealed, but the DA??????!!! Is this normal?

 

[Nikynoo]

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/C20 ORDER RE PEOPLES MOTION L AND NON-PARTY MOVANTS' NOTICE AND REQUEST.pdf

Finally some more documents!

Order - criminal court lacks jurisdiction over the motion to seal

Custodian has to file separately

Thanks @Amandaaa , it will be interesting to see if the Coroner files and if so, the content!

 

[MassGuy]

Wait....what? I sometimes miss a day of the boards and it appears I've missed something important. Why would the DA want to seal the autopsy reports unless it shows something that we don't expect? I can see why CW would want them sealed, but the DA??????!!! Is this normal?

The DA requested the autopsy results be sealed before he even had possession of them.

The fear is that the reports will bias a potential jury.

The law in Colorado favors release, and the DA is likely to lose in his efforts to have them remain sealed.

 

[Amandaaa]

I apologize for remedial questions, who is the custodian. A lot of pressure on the custodian whoever it is!

IMO, the Custodian is the Coroner. I would expect him to file the petition.

I also sense it’s going to be an uphill battle...

 

[Thepoet]

Good post, Poet.

I’m curious if you have a particular reason for the order of disposal as you’ve described – girls first, then Shanann. I’ve gone back and forth on that one and have yet to form a solid opinion. I would love to hear what you and others think that is the case.

On one hand, it’s very possible that CW thought about the oil tanks being a good place to hide a body prior to the murders. Whether or not it was ever spoken aloud by him or someone else may never come to light, but I consider it extremely likely that he had thought of the oil tanks for this purpose before. It also seems logical to assume that Shanann’s body was the first one loaded into the backseat of the truck and that he put the girls on top (sorry for this visual guys ). So, it makes sense from that perspective that the girls would be the first ones to be removed from the truck and disposed of into the oil tanks.

On the other hand, he may have intended to bury them all together, as in “dig one hole and done.” I know what it’s like to dig flowerbeds and gardens which are not even that deep and it's time-consuming, but a post by BillCarson back in thread #24 stands out to me as a good example of how CW may have intended to bury them all in the dirt, but just didn’t have time. I have snipped the post for brevity, but I will also include a link in the event you or anyone else wants to read it in its’ entirety:

It took my wife and I an hour-and-a-half to dig a hole that was about 3 feet long by 2.5 feet wide by 2 feet deep with a pick axe and a shovel. We would have preferred for it to be deeper, but it would have taken an hour to get another 6 inches deep, the ground was so hard. Then when we got the dog in there, it took longer than you'd think to fill the hole back up with dirt.

This leads me to believe that if CW intended to bury all three bodies, he soon found that it would be an impossible task and would have taken all day, despite the fact that he is fairly young and in better shape than me.
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

MOO

Thank you. I also enjoy so many of your well thought out posts. I think it was the girls first because men do tend to handle the largest or heaviest thing first, so SW would have been the first in, and like you said, the last out (ugh!) . I do think he had chosen the oil tanks ahead of time because of his work experience and thought they would be undiscovered there for a long time. He may have thought the oil would eventually erode the bodies down to almost nothing. I think there is more information that will come out about the tanks, including that he had difficulty putting the bodies into the tanks. As I said in an earlier post, CW may have checked out tanks where he had worked or was working, and expected the oil level to be much lower, or even empty, at the location he eventually chose, forcing him to use the thief hatch . I also believe the ranch was chosen for it's distance from CW's house and for it's isolation. I've always believed CW put a lot of planning into the murders, but made mistakes and then fell victim to the flight delay and NUA's persistence (God bless her!) I believe there was some conscious or sub-conscious punishment "thing" going on with him burying SW. He wanted the girls in separate tanks and SW separate from the girls. Now, what you said about difficulty digging is so true and he probably had a harder time than he expected, combined with less time to do the job. I wonder if he had planned to come back and dig a deeper grave, move the body, or (sorry ) try to dispose of the body? There was something very disordered going on in his brain! Several threads ago, when evidence of the bag came out, I postulated the foot print was left at the oil site. At that time everyone thought it had been made in the house. Sadly, it was probably left at the oil site. CW had an agenda, which involved more than just hiding bodies, and he wasn't going to be denied. Not by time, a small hatch, or hard ground.

 

[katydid23]

Wait....what? I sometimes miss a day of the boards and it appears I've missed something important. Why would the DA want to seal the autopsy reports unless it shows something that we don't expect? I can see why CW would want them sealed, but the DA??????!!! Is this normal?

One of the main reasons is that the DA does not want to 'taint' their jury pool. If the pool of jurors all believe that CW is obviously guilty, then many of them will be kicked out of consideration. It greatly reduces their available jury candidates. So they'd rather not have reports like that out in the media etc. JMO

 

[Gardener1850]

Yes I do see what you're saying Gardener 1850 - I see it from that end also, maybe I am thinking low self esteem because he seems to be more introverted? I think it's the quiet ones that you always got to worry about. LOL

LOL, true that about those quiet ones

But introversion doesn't equal low self esteem and it doesn't mean someone can't be a leader or the main decision maker. It just means they are less outgoing and get energy differently (from time alone to reflect instead of being with other people). But I don't think introversion was the reason CW seems to be quieter compared to SW. Plus we know he was the one to pursue SW in the beginning of their relationship. He sent her more than one friend request before it was accepted. He continued to date her even when she took him to her serious medical procedures such as a spinal tap. He may have seen her medical challenges as something beneficial or desirable to him. SW also says in her videos that she was not always so confident-- she said became more outgoing as her health improved and as she built her Thrive business. She credited CW with helping her improve herself (he's the best thing that ever happened to her other than her girls) which makes it seem as if he was not some passive doormat she was ordering around all the time in the beginning of their relationship. I think he probably had more control and more leadership in the relationship than it appears. JMO.

 

[Thepoet]

.


I agree with you, you put it beautifuly, if any thing about these horrible circumstances can be beautiful. You would make a fantastic true crime author.

Thank you, so much.

 

[MassGuy]

Thank you. I also enjoy so many of your well thought out posts. I think it was the girls first because men do tend to handle the largest or heaviest thing first, so SW would have been the first in, and like you said, the last out (ugh!) . I do think he had chosen the oil tanks ahead of time because of his work experience and thought they would be undiscovered there for a long time. He may have thought the oil would eventually erode the bodies down to almost nothing. I think there is more information that will come out about the tanks, including that he had difficulty putting the bodies into the tanks. As I said in an earlier post, CW may have checked out tanks where he had worked or was working, and expected the oil level to be much lower, or even empty, at the location he eventually chose, forcing him to use the thief hatch . I also believe the ranch was chosen for it's distance from CW's house and for it's isolation. I've always believed CW put a lot of planning into the murders, but made mistakes and then fell victim to the flight delay and NUA's persistence (God bless her!) I believe there was some conscious or sub-conscious punishment "thing" going on with him burying SW. He wanted the girls in separate tanks and SW separate from the girls. Now, what you said about difficulty digging is so true and he probably had a harder time than he expected, combined with less time to do the job. I wonder if he had planned to come back and dig a deeper grave, move the body, or (sorry ) try to dispose of the body? There was something very disordered going on in his brain! Several threads ago, when evidence of the bag came out, I postulated the foot print was left at the oil site. At that time everyone thought it had been made in the house. Sadly, it was probably left at the oil site. CW had an agenda, which involved more than just hiding bodies, and he wasn't going to be denied. Not by time, a small hatch, or hard ground.

I definitely think the girls were put in the tanks prior to Shanann being buried.

One reason for this, is because he had limited time before daylight, and he would have been fully exposed to any prying eyes had he waited until he finished burying SW.

I know it’s an isolated area, but he’d want to dump them as quickly as possible.

SW’s Grave appeared to have been rushed, and the sheet being left behind only emphasizes this.

 

[PommyMommy]

Thank you. I also enjoy so many of your well thought out posts. I think it was the girls first because men do tend to handle the largest or heaviest thing first, so SW would have been the first in, and like you said, the last out (ugh!) . I do think he had chosen the oil tanks ahead of time because of his work experience and thought they would be undiscovered there for a long time. He may have thought the oil would eventually erode the bodies down to almost nothing. I think there is more information that will come out about the tanks, including that he had difficulty putting the bodies into the tanks. As I said in an earlier post, CW may have checked out tanks where he had worked or was working, and expected the oil level to be much lower, or even empty, at the location he eventually chose, forcing him to use the thief hatch . I also believe the ranch was chosen for it's distance from CW's house and for it's isolation. I've always believed CW put a lot of planning into the murders, but made mistakes and then fell victim to the flight delay and NUA's persistence (God bless her!) I believe there was some conscious or sub-conscious punishment "thing" going on with him burying SW. He wanted the girls in separate tanks and SW separate from the girls. Now, what you said about difficulty digging is so true and he probably had a harder time than he expected, combined with less time to do the job. I wonder if he had planned to come back and dig a deeper grave, move the body, or (sorry ) try to dispose of the body? There was something very disordered going on in his brain! Several threads ago, when evidence of the bag came out, I postulated the foot print was left at the oil site. At that time everyone thought it had been made in the house. Sadly, it was probably left at the oil site. CW had an agenda, which involved more than just hiding bodies, and he wasn't going to be denied. Not by time, a small hatch, or hard ground.

Thank you. But now I have another question. Why do you think the footprint was made at the oil site?
MOO

 

[Nikynoo]

One of the main reasons is that the DA does not want to 'taint' their jury pool. If the pool of jurors all believe that CW is obviously guilty, then many of them will be kicked out of consideration. It greatly reduces their available jury candidates. So they'd rather not have reports like that out in the media etc. JMO

but if that was true, would there not be a provision in the legislation that would keeps all autopsies sealed until a trial starts? In any case, the defenses motion states that details contained in the autopsies would become public before trial through the various pre-trial stages - 'the contents of the autopsy reports will necessarily be revealed at the preliminary and proof-evident hearing, which will take place well in advance of any jury trial in this case.' - https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D 039 Notice(1).pdf

 

[gitana1]

These are my thoughts as well. If this goes to trial and if CW sticks with the same story, I think it's possible that some of the videos may be admitted to show SW's state of mind. Of course, IANAL, so shout out to our experts. @gitana1 @Mrspratcher (Apologies if you've already expressed an opinion on this.)
MOO

They can. But state of mind as to what? It depends on the video and what they think it shows. The court then has to decide if it's relevant.

My guess is this will be subject to motions in limine or sidebars and they'll argue relevance or the lack thereof. They really have to be able to make a case for the videos being relevant to some aspect of the case.

Both the state and the defense.

 

[PommyMommy]

I definitely think the girls were put in the tanks prior to Shanann being buried.

One reason for this, is because he had limited time before daylight, and he would have been fully exposed to any prying eyes had he waited until he finished burying SW.

I know it’s an isolated area, but he’d want to dump them as quickly as possible.

SW’s Grave appeared to have been rushed, and the sheet being left behind only emphasizes this.

Thank you for your insight. Makes sense.

Could you shed some light on how/where the footprint was made?
MOO

 

[Amandaaa]

Wait....what? I sometimes miss a day of the boards and it appears I've missed something important. Why would the DA want to seal the autopsy reports unless it shows something that we don't expect? I can see why CW would want them sealed, but the DA??????!!! Is this normal?

The DA filed a motion to seal - states rationale bc would interfere w potential witnesses and taint jury/compromise defendant’s fair trial

Defense responded, “we can’t take a position on this motion bc we don’t have the reports”

Court ordered prosecution to turn over to the defense - says they will then hold a hearing on the issue of sealing

Prosecution responded, “we don’t have them yet either, but we will turn them over when we get them”

Court says, “ok... forget the first order... when prosecution gets them, turn them over to defense and we will go from there”

Prosecution files and says “we have them, we turned them over to defense”

Defense responds to motion and tells the DA their proffered rationale is suspicious - essentially saying they don’t really care and leave the decision up to the court, want a hearing on one of the issues (witnesses) if the court finds it to have merit

But WAIT... media coalition now involved, motion for court to admit no jurisdiction to consider the initial motion to seal and to order custodian to file in proper court (separate proceeding)

Court now has admitted they don’t have jurisdiction, orders custodian to file in separate proceeding under CORA.

I think we will see those reports sooner rather than later...

As for the reason they wanted to seal in the first place - your guess is as good as mine. I’ve said I don’t suspect anything nefarious, but for a bunch of reasons I don’t believe the reasons they gave in the initial motion... my best guess - they had preliminary results they were trying to figure out, maybe something unexpected or maybe they wanted some extra time to do some research...?

 

[katydid23]

but if that was true, would there not be a provision in the legislation that would keeps all autopsies sealed until a trial starts? In any case, the defenses motion states that details contained in the autopsies would become public before trial through the various pre-trial stages - 'the contents of the autopsy reports will necessarily be revealed at the preliminary and proof-evident hearing, which will take place well in advance of any jury trial in this case.' - https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D 039 Notice(1).pdf

No, there'd be no need to keep ALL autopsies sealed because very few are this high profile and this ghastly. JMO