Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Thepoet]

I believe we have been discussing both sides of this case, looking at all angles, critiquing videos and both of their actions or lack of on the videos. In all this discussion, I haven’t heard any factual evidence that points to any possibility that SW murdered her children, none. It is hard to imagine such a seemingly nice, quiet, calm, husband and father could commit such a horrible crime, but his actions prove it. I believe he simply wanted out of the marriage and current life and all of it’s responsibilities. I believe he planned it and daydreamed about it for a while. He didn’t understand or take into account how others would respond to his story that she left him and took the kids. MOO

BINGO! I agree. SW, the girls, and the baby are dead. CW is alive and sitting in a jail cell.

 

[LovesChocolate]

If (big if) what he says is true it doesn't make sense why he did what he did. I think it's possible that he was in a complete panic, not thinking right (obviously) and he was flying by the seat of his pants trying to get away with murdering his pregnant wife and disposing of the bodies. IMO I don't think he was even on the planet when he was doing the interviews - I don't think he could remember what he said during the interview and that's why he kept watching the interviews when he was at the Thayers house.
FWIW - I'm not saying this is for sure 100% what happened. Until we know more I am exploring and looking at all angles.
jmo

I think this is a fair assessment. I had an incident in my past happen to me and my subsequent reaction to it and afterward is a blur; I could not remember all the details of what I had said and done. What I can remember, I am too embarrassed to repeat. Basically, I was not on the planet when I was reacting the way I did.

I believe wholeheartedly that CW is guilty of all the charges. I just have a difficult time accepting that he is the sociopath that we want to believe him to be.

 

[PommyMommy]

Here is what I think the defense could say in response to your points.

• CW is the only one who had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Shanann and the girls - SW also had the means, motive and opportunity to kill the girls
• CW was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, possibly as long as 6 – 10 months - Many people have affairs doesn't make you a killer, this could also be the reason why SW killed the girls
• Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, hadn’t been feeling well, was likely exhausted, and arrived home at 2 am - CW was likely sleeping and exhausted from watching the girls while is wife was away
• CW confessed to strangling Shanann, killing her and their unborn son - in a rage because SW killed his daughters
• CW confessed that CeCe was also strangled - CW accused SW of this
• CW did not call 911, hit the panic button on the home security system or yell for help from his neighbors
• CW did not make any attempt to resuscitate or save the lives of his wife and children - we don't know that he didn't make attempts to resuscitate them
• CW confessed that in less than an hour and ½ later (from 4 am), he loaded all their bodies into his truck
• CW confessed to driving with their dead bodies for 45 minutes (or so) to dispose of the evidence - same point as above
• CW confessed to burying his wife and their unborn son in the dirt - to avoid being accused of killing all of them
• CW confessed to dumping his 3 and 4-year-old daughters into crude oil tanks, possibly cramming them through 8" hatches - to avoid being accused of killing them
• CW gave three interviews the next day and showed no signs of sleeplessness, no signs of grief, no signs of a psychotic episode - this is not fact others see it different
• CW’s actions following the murders show consciousness of guilt - possbily
• LE stated that there is no evidence that the deaths of the girls were committed by anyone but CW - in their preliminary findings we don't know what they have found since
• CW has no history of mental illness (as far as we know at this point) - the same goes for SW

jmo

My original points in black. Your responses in red. My responses in blue.

• CW is the only one who had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Shanann and the girls - SW also had the means, motive and opportunity to kill the girls What would be her motive?
• CW was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, possibly as long as 6 – 10 months - Many people have affairs doesn't make you a killer, this could also be the reason why SW killed the girls It is one of the classic motives of a family annihilator. One of our VI’s emphasized that he wanted out of the marriage. Why would SW kill her daughters because CW was having an affair?
• Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, hadn’t been feeling well, was likely exhausted, and arrived home at 2 am - CW was likely sleeping and exhausted from watching the girls while is wife was away He was apparently not too tired to do some grilling and get on Twitter. CW claimed he saw SW when she came home. “It was quick.”
• CW confessed to strangling Shanann, killing her and their unborn son - in a rage because SW killed his daughters He is a proven liar with no credibility whatsoever. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense. A loving father does not cram his toddlers into a crude oil tank if he didn't kill them.
• CW confessed that CeCe was also strangled - CW accused SW of this The autopsy results will hopefully tell us whether he was honest about how he killed her. But again, he is a proven liar with no credibility at this point. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense, and his story about the monitor will prove he is lying.
• CW did not call 911, hit the panic button on the home security system or yell for help from his neighbors How do you account for the fact that if SW killed her babies, he did absolutely nothing to save them?
• CW did not make any attempt to resuscitate or save the lives of his wife and children - we don't know that he didn't make attempts to resuscitate them. Common sense tells me that if he didn’t call 911, he made no effort to save them. Common sense tells me that anyone who dumps their toddlers into oil tanks was detached and had no love for them at all.
• CW confessed that in less than an hour and ½ later (from 4 am), he loaded all their bodies into his truck. How was he even able to function if he just saw his babies being murdered? It is preposterous to believe that someone whose children were murdered could even walk or drive at all, let alone load up three dead bodies and head to work. The sheer disrespect he shows for the bodies of his wife and babies will infuriate the jury. He needs to take a plea if there is one offered.
• CW confessed to driving with their dead bodies for 45 minutes (or so) to dispose of the evidence - same point as above same point as above
• CW confessed to burying his wife and their unborn son in the dirt - to avoid being accused of killing all of them Agree, he was covering his *advertiser censored*. Would an innocent person need to cover their *advertiser censored*? He could have avoided being accused by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened. The only time this happens is when the suspect is guilty of the crime.
• CW confessed to dumping his 3 and 4-year-old daughters into crude oil tanks, possibly cramming them through 8" hatches - to avoid being accused of killing them He could have avoided that by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened.
• CW gave three interviews the next day and showed no signs of sleeplessness, no signs of grief, no signs of a psychotic episode - this is not fact others see it different Every expert I have heard from and commented on the case agrees...Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Criminologists, etc.
• CW’s actions following the murders show consciousness of guilt – possibly According to our legal experts, DEFINITELY. According to many, many others using plain old common sense, DEFINITELY.
• LE stated that there is no evidence that the deaths of the girls were committed by anyone but CW - in their preliminary findings we don't know what they have found since If there has been any exculpatory evidence discovered, there should be signs of that. He is still in jail and his charges have not changed. He is charged with 5 counts of first degree murder.
• CW has no history of mental illness (as far as we know at this point) - the same goes for SW. Yes, the same goes for Shanann, but she is not on trial as much as some people want to make that so.

MOO, except for what is in red font.

 

[Layla123]

I believe we have been discussing both sides of this case, looking at all angles, critiquing videos and both of their actions or lack of on the videos. In all this discussion, I haven’t heard any factual evidence that points to any possibility that SW murdered her children, none. It is hard to imagine such a seemingly nice, quiet, calm, husband and father could commit such a horrible crime, but his actions prove it. I believe he simply wanted out of the marriage and current life and all of it’s responsibilities. I believe he planned it and daydreamed about it for a while. He didn’t understand or take into account how others would respond to his story that she left him and took the kids. MOO

The thing is, there’s always going to be a flicker of a possibility that after that moment, when CW informed SW that he had made the decision to end their marriage and family life together, if he really did, SW went temporarily insane, and strangled those little girls. We are all aware that other women have done the same before, under the same circumstances. It’s up to the Prosecution to present mountains of evidence to remove any and all doubt, and I think the best evidence will be the text messages going back and forth between them during the months, days, and hours leading up to the murders, and CW’s texts to the AP during the same time period, as well. We haven’t seen those, yet.

 

[WildWest]

Good Morning everyone. Only one thing I wanted to reply to from yesterday:

@MollyDDD
"He looks like a Poindexter to me."

Yes, that is it exactly! I think that is what was bothering me about the Metallica video. I grew up straddling two worlds between the nerdy crowd and metal band death crowd (Only in my day there was KISS, Black Sabbath, Led Zepplin, and many more, but I digress). If I didn't know that he is a dangerous murderer I would think CW was a normal guy who was just a little socially awkward. He looks like he is a slightly nerdy guy trying to fit in with the heavy metal crowd. He tries too hard. That's what happened with his tv interviews after the murders too IMHO. He tried too hard to paint a picture of himself as he wanted everyone else to see him and it didn't work. Unlike socially awkward people, however, he is missing something else, something in his brain didn't alert him when his tv performance was going poorly. Most of my slightly nerdy friends will realize when they say or do something not quite right and stop talking. They get embarrassed. They get upset at themselves for saying the wrong thing. CW does not get embarrassed and does not realize when he should stop talking to the press. He even asked the Thayers later how he sounded. He had no clue. If the reporters wanted to keep interviewing him I think he would have stood there for an hour talking to them. His police interviews should be very revealing and very interesting. MOO.

The whole thing is so frightening to me. I know a child (now teenager) that is hedoublell on wheels, moody, angry, but put him in front of the camera and he can flash a beautiful, nice, attractive, social smile- you'd never know by seeing videos and pictures. No way he would ever do something like CW but the poindexter aspect, putting a good show on in public, but simmering anger inside unfortunately have both of them on my mind lately.

 

[PommyMommy]

I am still disturbed by CW repeating "It's vanished" when referring to his family in two media interviews. My thoughts are likely it was the disassociation from them - like he says "nothing was here" - objects. Or, it could be because he had rehearsed that line previously when he thought he would maybe dump her car...and it popped into his head. Whatever it was, I think he definitely did not get to finish his planned cover up and that shows in the interviews. I believe he is frustrated that he has to deal with an imperfect scene in his mind (all doors were locked! Camera at neighbor! her stuff there!) which was different from the way he planned it to roll out.

Absolutely. He detached from his wife and children and the build-up was complete. A perfect storm...until his cover-up was thwarted.
MOO

 

[AbbyG]

From the book.

When she demands that he eat foods he dislikes, he learns that his tastes are beside the point. He will swallow what he is fed, period. He will pretend not to mind. And, once he turns himself completely inside out psychologically, he will actually enjoy it. When she forces him to nap when he would prefer to play or read, he learns his internal clock is broken, and that he must look to others to know when he is tired. When she lets him cry himself to sleep rather than comforting him, he learns that his loneliness and protests and sadness and tears are to no avail—ignored, useless, as though not even real. And he will soon stop feeling those feelings and be silent at bedtime, already an expert at putting his desperation and anger to sleep. When she stops talking to him for hours or days when he disappoints her, he cannot miss the terrifying symbol that she has the capacity to cut him out of her life, and to effectively end his. And he will strive—swear a blood oath, if necessary—to never let her down. If he ever shows her how angry he is becoming, she might tell him he has no right to feel that way and should “leave her house” if he isn’t happy with the way she runs it. And, terrified at being cast out to fend for himself, he will disguise his curling lip or swallow his harsh words or learn to ignore the clenching of his jaw, and bury his rage deep inside him. When he laughs at something, she can shake her head quizzically, as though there is nothing funny at all, and he will learn not to trust his sense of humor, to resist smiling or laughing at things that amuse him. He will instead check the faces of others to know precisely when they are beginning to smile, so he can mimic their expressions, and laugh when they laugh. “We have exactly the same sense of humor,” he will tell them. And they will believe they are with a blood brother. When she tells him enough times that he “makes no sense,” he will start to believe her express any opinions, instead soliciting the ideas of others, and restating them as his own. “We think alike,” he will tell them. And they will believe they have found a kindred spirit. He will slowly kill himself off, and become a person imitating a person, a hunter-gatherer of the “emotions” and facial expressions and ideas that will receive the best reception, that will get him some of what he needs from a world he has learned is unfeeling and unpredictable and cruel and potentially lethal. He will start down the road to sociopathy. And there are so many more ways a mother could push a child there, from his earliest years. She could force him to use the toilet when he is resistant to doing so, then ridicule or punish him when he fails to harness his bodily functions perfectly to her will. She could simply fail to show any joy at signs of his developing personhood—his favorite color, favorite song, favorite animal, favorite food or piece of clothing or storybook. “Green?” she could ask, with a shrug. “You like green? I always thought it was such a boring color.” And from that day forward, he will hate the color green. He will ask his roommates or friends or girlfriends the colors they like and profess to like the very same ones. How coincidental. How lucky to find such a perfect friend, or a lover so much like you. She could disagree with him about reality—the color of a shirt, whether a promise was ever made to go somewhere after school, when a period of punishment was slated to end.

Interesting but can I just ask if this is heavily researched as to how SP was raised? Because it does bug me that the mother is ALWAYS blamed. Did SP have a dad involved with his upbringing? And this "bad mothering," the smothering and oppressive mother, they KNOW this is how he was raised? I am not sure I buy this as the explanation for these sociopaths. Seems reductive and mommy-blaming IMO

 

[compass]

I think this is a fair assessment. I had an incident in my past happen to me and my subsequent reaction to it and afterward is a blur; I could not remember all the details of what I had said and done. What I can remember, I am too embarrassed to repeat. Basically, I was not on the planet when I was reacting the way I did.

I believe wholeheartedly that CW is guilty of all the charges. I just have a difficult time accepting that he is the sociopath that we want to believe him to be.

I don’t think a diagnosis is necessary to accept his quilt, just maybe, for some, make it easier to understand his actions. I think it’s just pure and simple evil and stupidity. MOO

 

[Amonet]

IMO he was trying to disguise the panic he was feeling inside.

I would agree with this insofar as it appeared to me that he seems to show concern about getting caught in his lies. But the deeper panic he describes when he was allegedly racing home as NUA had called cops, I can't see that kind of panic on display, not even under the surface. To me it looks like he's often gulping in worry over what the next question will be and if it's something he's going to be able to answer, checking the reporters' faces to see if they look like they're accepting what he's saying and he hasn't given anything away. But I think by the point of the interviews he's also got a lot of hope that he's going to get away with it.

 

[Best of What's Around]

My original points in black. Your responses in red. My responses in blue.

• CW is the only one who had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Shanann and the girls - SW also had the means, motive and opportunity to kill the girls What would be her motive?
• CW was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, possibly as long as 6 – 10 months - Many people have affairs doesn't make you a killer, this could also be the reason why SW killed the girls It is one of the classic motives of a family annihilator. One of our VI’s emphasized that he wanted out of the marriage. Why would SW kill her daughters because CW was having an affair?
• Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, hadn’t been feeling well, was likely exhausted, and arrived home at 2 am - CW was likely sleeping and exhausted from watching the girls while is wife was away He was apparently not too tired to do some grilling and get on Twitter. CW claimed he saw SW when she came home. “It was quick.”
• CW confessed to strangling Shanann, killing her and their unborn son - in a rage because SW killed his daughters He is a proven liar with no credibility whatsoever. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense. A loving father does not cram his toddlers into a crude oil tank if he didn't kill them.
• CW confessed that CeCe was also strangled - CW accused SW of this The autopsy results will hopefully tell us whether he was honest about how he killed her. But again, he is a proven liar with no credibility at this point. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense, and his story about the monitor will prove he is lying.
• CW did not call 911, hit the panic button on the home security system or yell for help from his neighbors How do you account for the fact that if SW killed her babies, he did absolutely nothing to save them?
• CW did not make any attempt to resuscitate or save the lives of his wife and children - we don't know that he didn't make attempts to resuscitate them. Common sense tells me that if he didn’t call 911, he made no effort to save them. Common sense tells me that anyone who dumps their toddlers into oil tanks was detached and had no love for them at all.
• CW confessed that in less than an hour and ½ later (from 4 am), he loaded all their bodies into his truck. How was he even able to function if he just saw his babies being murdered? It is preposterous to believe that someone whose children were murdered could even walk or drive at all, let alone load up three dead bodies and head to work. The sheer disrespect he shows for the bodies of his wife and babies will infuriate the jury. He needs to take a plea if there is one offered.
• CW confessed to driving with their dead bodies for 45 minutes (or so) to dispose of the evidence - same point as above same point as above
• CW confessed to burying his wife and their unborn son in the dirt - to avoid being accused of killing all of them Agree, he was covering his *advertiser censored*. Would an innocent person need to cover their *advertiser censored*? He could have avoided being accused by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened. The only time this happens is when the suspect is guilty of the crime.
• CW confessed to dumping his 3 and 4-year-old daughters into crude oil tanks, possibly cramming them through 8" hatches - to avoid being accused of killing them He could have avoided that by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened.
• CW gave three interviews the next day and showed no signs of sleeplessness, no signs of grief, no signs of a psychotic episode - this is not fact others see it different Every expert I have heard from and commented on the case agrees...Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Criminologists, etc.
• CW’s actions following the murders show consciousness of guilt – possibly According to our legal experts, DEFINITELY. According to many, many others using plain old common sense, DEFINITELY.
• LE stated that there is no evidence that the deaths of the girls were committed by anyone but CW - in their preliminary findings we don't know what they have found since If there has been any exculpatory evidence discovered, there should be signs of that. He is still in jail and his charges have not changed. He is charged with 5 counts of first degree murder.
• CW has no history of mental illness (as far as we know at this point) - the same goes for SW. Yes, the same goes for Shanann, but she is not on trial as much as some people want to make that so.

MOO, except for what is in red font.

Agreed (with black and red remarks). For those who worry he won't be convicted, I am less concerned since researching the cases of modern day FAs that most closely resemble this case. All were found guilty despite many having some people (family, fans, others) who believe their innocence. It appears that modern day juries in the U.S. do not take kindly to fathers who appear to have killed their families and lie/cover up afterward. In the other cases, I believe the FA's demeanor and behavior afterward played a big part in their conviction as well as the secrets they held prior to murders. They always seem to have big secrets. I do not believe that this will be any different IMO.

 

[Gardener1850]

I can make that diagnosis. “A psychopath doesn’t have a conscience. If he lies to you so he can steal your money, he won’t feel any moral qualms, though he may pretend to. He may observe others and then act the way they do so he’s not “found out,” https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/sociopath-psychopath-difference#1

Wow. Thank you for that Layla. I keep going back and forth in my mind on whether I think he is sociopath or a psychopath. Now I'm leaning towards psychopath after reading this from page 2:

"Recent research suggests a psychopath’s brain is not like other people’s. It may have physical differences that make it hard for the person to identify with someone else’s distress.

The differences can even change basic body functions. For example, when most people see blood or violence in a movie, their hearts beat faster, their breathing quickens, and their palms get sweaty.
A psychopath has the opposite reaction. He gets calmer. Kipnis says that quality helps psychopaths be fearless and engage in risky behavior.

“They don’t fear the consequences of their actions,” he says."

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/sociopath-psychopath-difference#2

The BBM seems to cast light on CW's very calm demeanor during the media interviews. Many of us have said we would not have given any interviews-- that's because we have normal fear responses and would not be able to think of our murdered family without falling to pieces. CW had the opposite reaction-- somehow thinking of his wife and children and recalling the previous night's events made him calmer. And he didn't fear the consequences if he messed up. He knew he would be able to calmly lie. He smiled because he was feeling good as he was reliving it!

MOO.

 

[Best of What's Around]

The thing is, there’s always going to be a flicker of a possibility that after that moment, when CW informed SW that he had made the decision to end their marriage and family life together, if he really did, SW went temporarily insane, and strangled those little girls. We are all aware that other women have done the same before, under the same circumstances. It’s up to the Prosecution to present mountains of evidence to remove any and all doubt, and I think the best evidence will be the text messages going back and forth between them during the months, days, and hours leading up to the murders, and CW’s texts to the AP during the same time period, as well. We haven’t seen those, yet.

Just a quick addition that the prosecution does not have to remove any and all doubt. Just prove beyond a reasonable doubt. I do think this case will go as the other similar FAs did....guilty, guilty, guilty.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

I’ve always wondered this. IMO, CW didn’t seem very enthusiastic about Thrive. He’d pose for the photos and go on the trips, but I don’t see him being passionate about it the way Shanann was.

It makes perfect sense to me that he’d hand over the reins and let her do the marketing on his SM for him. She was a natural salesperson and people person, and he was passive - IMO. She wanted to maximize their sales.

I agree with you that Shanann was the person responsible for CW's sales and they did it that way to maximize their commissions and freebies. For example, instead of just earning 20% on her personal customers, CW could earn that 20% instead and she would get an extra 12% because he was her level 1 recruit. Also, they would have effectively doubled their commissions down line a few levels for both retail sales and "uni-level team commissions". I guess the margins are so high on those Thrive products they can afford to give away such large commissions to their promoters along with the cars, trips and other freebies.
https://media.le-vel.com/Documents/RewardsPlan.pdf

It's possible that Shanann was actually making very good money selling Thrive and other products, since she had $130K in monthly sales for April according to a VI. IMO, CW seemed pretty onboard with all the Thrive stuff by becoming buff, enjoying those free trips and helping her with those FB videos to promote the products.

We know that CW was eager to sell the house and book that $100K tax free gain since he mentioned selling the house to the Thayers the day after his family went missing. Since he was so focused on financial transactions right after tragically losing his family, perhaps he thought he would just gain all of Shanann's customers by default and keep all the commissions to himself. He definitely would have lost all of his customers if he had just left his pregnant wife and little girls. MOO

 

[rogue ant]

We were discussing the interview. Are you asking why he didn't just leave during the interview?

Sorry, no (I hate working this on my phone!) I meant why didn't he just leave his marriage/family instead of killing them all (which is what I believe happened, I know you don't agree) but I don't really expect an answer: nobody but CW knows why.

 

[compass]

The thing is, there’s always going to be a flicker of a possibility that after that moment, when CW informed SW that he had made the decision to end their marriage and family life together, if he really did, SW went temporarily insane, and strangled those little girls. We are all aware that other women have done the same before, under the same circumstances. It’s up to the Prosecution to present mountains of evidence to remove any and all doubt, and I think the best evidence will be the text messages going back and forth between them during the months, days, and hours leading up to the murders, and CW’s texts to the AP during the same time period, as well. We haven’t seen those, yet.

I agree! Yes, text messages will definitely be interesting. However, I am not convinced he did tell her he wanted a separation, I think it’s possible there was no emotional conversation at all. I see him too cowardly to have a confrontation, I think that could even be part of his motive, to avoid any disagreement MOO

 

[Thepoet]

My original points in black. Your responses in red. My responses in blue.

• CW is the only one who had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Shanann and the girls - SW also had the means, motive and opportunity to kill the girls What would be her motive?
• CW was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, possibly as long as 6 – 10 months - Many people have affairs doesn't make you a killer, this could also be the reason why SW killed the girls It is one of the classic motives of a family annihilator. One of our VI’s emphasized that he wanted out of the marriage. Why would SW kill her daughters because CW was having an affair?
• Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, hadn’t been feeling well, was likely exhausted, and arrived home at 2 am - CW was likely sleeping and exhausted from watching the girls while is wife was away He was apparently not too tired to do some grilling and get on Twitter. CW claimed he saw SW when she came home. “It was quick.”
• CW confessed to strangling Shanann, killing her and their unborn son - in a rage because SW killed his daughters He is a proven liar with no credibility whatsoever. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense. A loving father does not cram his toddlers into a crude oil tank if he didn't kill them.
• CW confessed that CeCe was also strangled - CW accused SW of this The autopsy results will hopefully tell us whether he was honest about how he killed her. But again, he is a proven liar with no credibility at this point. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense, and his story about the monitor will prove he is lying.
• CW did not call 911, hit the panic button on the home security system or yell for help from his neighbors How do you account for the fact that if SW killed her babies, he did absolutely nothing to save them?
• CW did not make any attempt to resuscitate or save the lives of his wife and children - we don't know that he didn't make attempts to resuscitate them. Common sense tells me that if he didn’t call 911, he made no effort to save them. Common sense tells me that anyone who dumps their toddlers into oil tanks was detached and had no love for them at all.
• CW confessed that in less than an hour and ½ later (from 4 am), he loaded all their bodies into his truck. How was he even able to function if he just saw his babies being murdered? It is preposterous to believe that someone whose children were murdered could even walk or drive at all, let alone load up three dead bodies and head to work. The sheer disrespect he shows for the bodies of his wife and babies will infuriate the jury. He needs to take a plea if there is one offered.
• CW confessed to driving with their dead bodies for 45 minutes (or so) to dispose of the evidence - same point as above same point as above
• CW confessed to burying his wife and their unborn son in the dirt - to avoid being accused of killing all of them Agree, he was covering his *advertiser censored*. Would an innocent person need to cover their *advertiser censored*? He could have avoided being accused by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened. The only time this happens is when the suspect is guilty of the crime.
• CW confessed to dumping his 3 and 4-year-old daughters into crude oil tanks, possibly cramming them through 8" hatches - to avoid being accused of killing them He could have avoided that by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened.
• CW gave three interviews the next day and showed no signs of sleeplessness, no signs of grief, no signs of a psychotic episode - this is not fact others see it different Every expert I have heard from and commented on the case agrees...Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Criminologists, etc.
• CW’s actions following the murders show consciousness of guilt – possibly According to our legal experts, DEFINITELY. According to many, many others using plain old common sense, DEFINITELY.
• LE stated that there is no evidence that the deaths of the girls were committed by anyone but CW - in their preliminary findings we don't know what they have found since If there has been any exculpatory evidence discovered, there should be signs of that. He is still in jail and his charges have not changed. He is charged with 5 counts of first degree murder.
• CW has no history of mental illness (as far as we know at this point) - the same goes for SW. Yes, the same goes for Shanann, but she is not on trial as much as some people want to make that so.

MOO, except for what is in red font.

Very, very well said. Every point well refuted. IIRC Gitana said if there was exculpatory evidence in the autopsy report the defense would move for bail. We hear only silence.

 

[PommyMommy]

A smiling mouth doesn't necessarily always indicate happiness or positive feelings. Many people smile or chuckle at inappropriate times.

There is an episode of "Modern Family" where the character Claire has to tell her son his friend died and she can't not smile. Yes, that's TV, but it's a phenomenon or trait common enough to have it addressed on a very popular show, because some people can relate to it.

I believe what you're referring to is called Pseudobulbar affect. IMO, it's not likely since that is characterized by episodes of sudden uncontrollable and inappropriate laughing or crying. That's not what we saw in the interviews. He laughed, he smiled, but it was not uncontrollable.

I don't know; I'm not an expert and could certainly be wrong. But, I do know how to call an expert! @Jmartinez0303 or @stereopticons or @MindHunter13 can you please help? We're in over our heads again, lol...

MOO

 

[Gardener1850]

The whole thing is so frightening to me. I know a child (now teenager) that is hedoublell on wheels, moody, angry, but put him in front of the camera and he can flash a beautiful, nice, attractive, social smile- you'd never know by seeing videos and pictures. No way he would ever do something like CW but the poindexter aspect, putting a good show on in public, but simmering anger inside unfortunately have both of them on my mind lately.

It is scary. The thing to remember is that even if the kid you know is sociopathic it doesn't mean he will grow up to be a murderer. I think there are many sociopaths who never murder anyone. They know it's wrong even if they have trouble putting themselves in the other person's place. That's why those who do murder try to cover it up. MOO.

 

[ilovewings]

I believe what you're referring to is called Pseudobulbar affect. IMO, it's not likely since that is characterized by episodes of sudden uncontrollable and inappropriate laughing or crying. That's not what we saw in the interviews. He laughed, he smiled, but it was not uncontrollable.

I don't know; I'm not an expert and could certainly be wrong. But, I do know how to call an expert! @Jmartinez0303 or @stereopticons or @MindHunter13 can you please help? We're in over our heads again, lol...

MOO

When he smiled like he did, I was stunned: i had never seen even someone as evil as Scott Peterson, or other men whose wives were missing, smile while saying how he has no idea where they are, blah, blah, blah. I think his smile was his body language expressing his real feelings, which was he knew what he did, he knew where his family was, and he thought he was fooling people, and that thought made him smile; he couldn't help himself; he was so pleased with himself.

 

[flourish]

I believe what you're referring to is called Pseudobulbar affect. IMO, it's not likely since that is characterized by episodes of sudden uncontrollable and inappropriate laughing or crying. That's not what we saw in the interviews. He laughed, he smiled, but it was not uncontrollable.

I don't know; I'm not an expert and could certainly be wrong. But, I do know how to call an expert! @Jmartinez0303 or @stereopticons or @MindHunter13 can you please help? We're in over our heads again, lol...

MOO

How did you ascertain whether or not it was uncontrollable?