Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

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I find it interesting that CW said he wanted to get out and drive around. Why, to go back and move SW's body? Flee the jurisdiction? He knew they were dead, so why drive around looking? At the very least this shows how cold and callous he was and determined to create a false narrative.

I always thought that was a strange thing to say. He wouldn't have had a chance of doing a runner but it was obvious to me he wanted to do something. Maybe he thought there was some small piece of evidence he could secrete in his pocket and dispose of.
 
I find this quote in particular, quite telling. It indicates that when he began acting suspiciously, she began to suspect his involvement.

You know how we hear cases of women saying to their friends “If something happens to me, my husband did it?”

Going by this statement by NA, something like that didn’t occur, and her suspicions came later, as a direct consequence of him behaving strangely.

Good point! To NUA's credit, she was very aware of how things looked and how he was acting.
I hope I have a friend like her if I ever go missing.

However, I have to say, the evidence was pretty stacked up against CW being responsible at that point:

1. NUA observed SW enter the house and close the door around 2 AM, so she knew SW got home.
2. The back sliding door was locked and blocked so SW couldn't have gone out that way
3. The top latch on the front door meant meant SW couldn't have gone out that way.
4. NA had a key to the front door and knew the top latch was only used at night.
5. The neighbor's camera on the driveway made it impossible that SW and the girls left the house unseen.
6. CW was the only one seen exiting the house out the only exit possible (on camera/out the garage).
7. CW was seen on camera loading things into his truck.
8. SW left her purse behind.
9. SW left her phone behind (and it was in the upstairs sofa).
10 SW left her children's vital medications (epipens) behind.
11. SW left her car behind (with the keys).
12. SW left her children's car seats behind (in her car).
13. SW's shoes were by the front door.
14. SW's suitcase from the trip was by the stairs-- she had not unpacked/nor taken it with her.
15. The neighbors had not seen nor heard SW nor her girls that morning.
16. The stripped beds were not how SW would have left her house.
17. No communication from SW was out of the ordinary.
18. Missing a doctors appointment was out of the ordinary for SW.
19. There were no signs of a break in.
20. There was nothing of value missing from the house (except the people).
21. CW claimed to NUA he had texted SW that morning without response but he wasn't concerned about it.
22. CW mentioned a playdate but had no names and no times for that.
23. CW did not rush home the first time NUA showed up at the door saying SW and the girls were not answering. He showed no concern over that.
24. The next time NUA calls, CW suddenly brings up separation (NUA's reaction was that's not my business/I just want to find SW and the girls).
25. CW only came home when informed the police were called.
26. CW further delayed getting into the house by not permitting police to break in/not giving the garage key code.
27. CW said the keypad to enter the garage was broken.
28. CW made the police and NAU wait until he got there before letting them in.

It all added up for NAU quickly and these are just the things we KNOW about.

I imagine there are other things we don't know that she may have observed that first day or we might find out about later such as:

How did CW appear when he got home?
What else did he say?
Did he mention his blowing through red lights to the police?
Does his truck's GPS show he really sped and ran red lights?
Where does his truck's GPS show he came from?
What was the first thing CW did when he arrived?
Did CW tightly control their entry to the house/Ask them to use a specific door?
Did CW yell for Shanann as if he was worried?
Did CW disappear from their sight in the house at anytime?
Did CW eat lunch that day despite being informed of his wife not answering the door?
Did CW mention food or getting dinner later after the police had looked through the house?
Was there any evidence SW had taken her morning Thrive pills, made the usual morning shake or put on a new patch? Any wrappers in the trash?
Was the Thrive patch from the previous day found?
Were there any breakfast dishes in the sink? How many?
Anything indicating she had fed the girls that morning? Or just dishes for one (CW)?
Any other things he didn't clean up that SW normally would have?
Was the garage keypad really broken?
Was the home security system disabled or working? Did it show everytime a window or door opened?
Was Dieter where he normally would be if everyone had left the house?
Were the girl's toothbrushes checked and were they dry indicating they hadn't been used that morning?
Were bathroom towels dry (or absent) indicating no one had washed up?
Did either of the girls still wear pull ups to sleep? What was in their bathroom trash?
What clothes were in the clothes hampers?
Were the clothes SW was wearing the previous day found?
Were the clothes the girls were wearing to the party found?
Could CW describe what the girls wore to bed and were their pajamas found?
Was there any evidence in SW's bathroom trash showing she had removed her make-up the previous night to get ready for bed?
Where was the jewelry she had on the previous night? Was it found in the usual place she would put it before going to sleep or was it missing?
How was SW's phone located and who found it first?
Did police look through her phone while NUA was there?
Did they look through SW's purse and see anything else amiss with it?
How many people did NUA call asking if they had heard from SW before CW made it home?
(I bet she called everyone she could think of and no one had talked to SW)

And all this BEFORE the lying porch interviews.

Those interviews are a huge boon for the prosecution but everything NAU and the first responding officers observed the very first day would be enough to point the finger at CW alone.
JMO.
 
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I always thought that was a strange thing to say. He wouldn't have had a chance of doing a runner but it was obvious to me he wanted to do something. Maybe he thought there was some small piece of evidence he could secrete in his pocket and dispose of.
LOL - doing a runner was off the top of my head, but you're right, no chance there. Yep, maybe hiding something. I wonder if LE really told him not to go out and drive around, you'd think they'd want to watch him.
 
Good point! To NUA's credit, she was very aware of how things looked and how he was acting.
I hope I have a friend like her if I ever go missing.

However, I have to say, the evidence was pretty stacked up against CW being responsible at that point:

1. NUA observed SW enter the house and close the door around 2 AM, so she knew SW got home.
2. The back sliding door was locked and blocked so SW couldn't have gone out that way
3. The top latch on the front door meant meant SW couldn't have gone out that way.
4. NA had a key to the front door and knew the top latch was only used at night.
5. The neighbor's camera on the driveway made it impossible that SW and the girls left the house unseen.
6. CW was the only one seen exiting the house out the only exit possible (on camera/out the garage).
7. CW was seen on camera loading things into his truck.
8. SW left her purse behind.
9. SW left her phone behind (and it was in the upstairs sofa).
10 SW left her children's vital medications (epipens) behind.
11. SW left her car behind (with the keys).
12. SW left her children's car seats behind (in her car).
13. SW's shoes were by the front door.
14. SW's suitcase from the trip was by the stairs-- she had not unpacked/nor taken it with her.
15. The neighbors had not seen nor heard SW nor her girls that morning.
16. The stripped beds were not how SW would have left her house.
17. No communication from SW was out of the ordinary.
18. Missing a doctors appointment was out of the ordinary for SW.
19. There were no signs of a break in.
20. There was nothing of value missing from the house (except the people).
21. CW claimed to NUA he had texted SW that morning without response but he wasn't concerned about it.
22. CW mentioned a playdate but had no names and no times for that.
23. CW did not rush home the first time NUA showed up at the door saying SW and the girls were not answering. He showed no concern over that.
24. The next time NUA calls, CW suddenly brings up separation (NUA's reaction was that's not my business/I just want to find SW and the girls).
25. CW only came home when informed the police were called.
26. CW further delayed getting into the house by not permitting police to break in/not giving the garage key code.
27. CW said the keypad to enter the garage was broken.
28. CW made the police and NAU wait until he got there before letting them in.

It all added up for NAU quickly and these are just the things we KNOW about.

I imagine there are other things we don't know that she may have observed that first day such as:

How did CW appear when he got home?
Does his truck's GPS show he really sped and ran red lights?
Where does his truck's GPS show he came from?
What was the first thing CW did when he arrived?
Did CW tightly control their entry to the house/Ask them to use a specific door?
Did CW yell for Shanann as if he was worried?
Did CW disappear from their sight in the house at anytime?
Did CW eat lunch that day despite being informed of his wife not answering the door?
Did CW mention food or getting dinner later after the police had looked through the house?
Was there any evidence SW had taken her morning Thrive pills, made the usual morning shake or put on a new patch? Any wrappers in the trash?
Was the Thrive patch from the previous day found?
Were there any breakfast dishes in the sink? How many?
Anything indicating she had fed the girls that morning? Or just dishes for one (CW)?
Any other things he didn't clean up that SW normally would have?
Was the garage keypad really broken?
Was the home security system disabled or working? Did it show everytime a window or door opened?
Was Dieter where he normally would be if everyone had left the house?
Were the girl's toothbrushes checked and were they dry indicating they hadn't been used that morning?
Were bathroom towels dry (or absent) indicating no one had washed up?
Did either of the girls still wear pull ups to sleep? What was in their bathroom trash?
What clothes were in the clothes hampers?
Were the clothes SW was wearing the previous day found?
Were the clothes the girls were wearing to the party found?
Was there any evidence in SW's bathroom trash showing she had removed her make-up the previous night to get ready for bed?
Where was the jewelry she had on the previous night? Was it found in the usual place she would put it before going to sleep or was it missing?
How was SW's phone located and who found it first?
Did police look through her phone while NUA was there?
Did they look through SW's purse and see anything else amiss with it?
How many people did NUA call asking if they had heard from SW before CW made it home?
(I bet she called everyone she could think of and no one had talked to SW)

And all this BEFORE the lying porch interviews.

Those interviews are a huge boon for the prosecution but everything NAU and the first responding officers observed the very first day would be enough to point the finger at CW alone.
JMO.

All this points to CW disposing/hiding their bodies. CW confessed to killing his pregnant wife and horrendously disposing of all their bodies. I think we all agree he's guilty of those crimes.

However, if we were looking strictly at the girls murders. What evidence do we have?
 
Thanks Misy. I agree - being wrongly accused or convicted of a crime would be one of the worst things a person would endure. Sadly, it happens and IMO it happens too often.
If I was a juror on a murder case with purely circumstantial evidence I would most definitely find a person guilty of a crime if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. In this case, I don't have enough proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict CW for murdering his two daughters. So far, everything we know points in the direction of his guilt, but IMO not enough to prove he killed his daughters. I'm confident that more information will come out at trial (if there is one) to prove one way or another who is responsible for the murder of the girls. Either way, I believe CW will spend the rest of his life in prison - even without a conviction for murdering his daughters. Initially, I thought CW was 100% guilty, but as time goes on and with my emotions more in check I've been able to look at the entire picture with more of an open mind. (Not so open that my brains fall out).

Over the years I've learned there's always more to the story. I've followed cases where I was convinced a person was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt only to come to find out the information given out to the public from LE and the media was biased and construed. The man LE and the media pointed at was wrongly accused and convicted by the public. A different man finally confessed and was convicted for the crime 20 years later. The man who was wrongly accused is now suing for damages. IMO the damages done to that man can't be repaired and the years with a dark cloud hanging over his head can't be undone. (I'm referring to the Jacob Wetterling Case).

FWIW - On a day to day basis, I'm not typically an overly trusting person. I'm usually very aware of my surroundings and when I get the feeling something isn't right (gut feeling) I listen.
Hi Tippy and thanks so much for your reply! I agree that too many people are wrongly convicted and sometimes, just from what I’ve seen on tv, with very little evidence...sometimes it appears that someone is truly railroaded. It’s terrifying to know something like that can happen. We absolutely need people like you on a jury, and in general! In this particular case I do feel that even now there’s more than a reasonable doubt that CW is guilty as charged. But you’re right, there’s got to be tons that we don’t know yet. Whatever the truth is, this case is tragic everyone (little Dieter too. I hope he’s happy, but I’m sure he’s confused and waiting to see his human family again ☹️).
I believe you mentioned one time that you volunteer for an Alzheimer’s program. Thank you for that. You’re a good and caring person, Tippy!
 
All this points to CW disposing/hiding their bodies. CW confessed to killing his pregnant wife and horrendously disposing of all their bodies. I think we all agree he's guilty of those crimes.

However, if we were looking strictly at the girls murders. What evidence do we have?

Evidence, not yet. But the only evidence that SW did it, is the word of someone who lied repeatedly. :confused:

Ebm
 
What victim?

Here's the deal. Chris Watts was arrested and charged with five counts of first degree murder.

Unless the boyfriend or mother in the case your referring to were likewise charged, there is no comparison.

Sure, there are cases where LE looks hard in a certain direction that ends up being a dead end. People often say "Well they ignored other leads because they were looking the wrong way." Jaycee Dugard is a case where people feel that as the boyfriend was long suspected or investigated.

But that's a different case.

First, suspecting a certain person or investigating them does not necessarily mean they're ignoring other possibilities and failing to look in all directions. Sometimes there's just not enough evidence.

Second, there was an arrest here and several charges.

So we should look at statistics in that context. Not in the context that they're sometimes wrong like in other cases. But in the context of there was enough evidence to charge a man with five counts of first degree murder. Which he was I deed charged with. Do the stats tend to support those charges? Or not?
 
All this points to CW disposing/hiding their bodies. CW confessed to killing his pregnant wife and horrendously disposing of all their bodies. I think we all agree he's guilty of those crimes.

However, if we were looking strictly at the girls murders. What evidence do we have?
I don't think we have any at this time, that we can point to with any certainty.
 
Hi Tippy and thanks so much for your reply! I agree that too many people are wrongly convicted and sometimes, just from what I’ve seen on tv, with very little evidence...sometimes it appears that someone is truly railroaded. It’s terrifying to know something like that can happen. We absolutely need people like you on a jury, and in general! In this particular case I do feel that even now there’s more than a reasonable doubt that CW is guilty as charged. But you’re right, there’s got to be tons that we don’t know yet. Whatever the truth is, this case is tragic everyone (little Dieter too. I hope he’s happy, but I’m sure he’s confused and waiting to see his human family again ☹️).
I believe you mentioned one time that you volunteer for an Alzheimer’s program. Thank you for that. You’re a good and caring person, Tippy!

You're welcome and thank you. Poor Dieter.....so sad. :( I think there's more to the story there almost always is.

My dad had early onset Alzheimers, he was only 53 years old when he was diagnosed. I enjoy giving back and volunteering when I can.

(ETA) My team raised $16K over our goal of $25K in our Walk To End Alzheimers last month.
 
I always thought that was a strange thing to say. He wouldn't have had a chance of doing a runner but it was obvious to me he wanted to do something. Maybe he thought there was some small piece of evidence he could secrete in his pocket and dispose of.

I am assuming LE was keeping close tabs on CW, and have wondered why they didn't want CW to help with the search?Don't some return to the scene of the crime? He (potentially) could have led them there. I wonder if he would have gone back to gather anything left behind if he left in a hurry when receiving NUA's call about LE coming to the house for a well-check? Or, maybe, as you indicate, JudgeJudi, to dispose of additional evidence.

I have always believed that there was some suspicion of CW's involvement of their "disappearance" from the very beginning, and this is why a second officer was called to the home when NUA asked for a well-check.

We have additional evidence that LE believed he may have been involved, and this evidence ultimately led to his arrest and the charges against him.
- questioning of NUA at well-check where she indicated SW was not feeling well, missed her doctors appointment, and was told by CW that the two were separating.
- found SW's cellphone between couch cushions, and asked to take the phone (is this how LE discovered information about a possible AP through text messages)?
- CW's answers to LE's questioning raised suspicion, and as a result they continued to investigate his possible involvement.
- two day investigation and questioning of AP.
- bizarre interviews given to reporters by CW.
- report from the Thayer's about CW's odd behavior.
- search warrant for the home where sheets/pillowcases were found in kitchen garbage.
- additional evidence removed from the home.
- possible tracking of CW's movements through his GPS the morning of their disappearance.
- drone search of the CERVI location.
- discovery of matching sheet found at site.
- discovery of clandestine grave at site.
- confession by CW.

What we don't have (yet) is the evidence against CW that he is responsible for the deaths of BW and CCW. But we do know there is something based on his charges.
 
Here's the deal. Chris Watts was arrested and charged with five counts of first degree murder.

Unless the boyfriend or mother in the case your referring to were likewise charged, there is no comparison.

Sure, there are cases where LE looks hard in a certain direction that ends up being a dead end. People often say "Well they ignored other leads because they were looking the wrong way." Jaycee Dugard is a case where people feel that as the boyfriend was long suspected or investigated.

But that's a different case.

First, suspecting a certain person or investigating them does not necessarily mean they're ignoring other possibilities and failing to look in all directions. Sometimes there's just not enough evidence.

Second, there was an arrest here and several charges.

So we should look at statistics in that context. Not in the context that they're sometimes wrong like in other cases. But in the context of there was enough evidence to charge a man with five counts of first degree murder. Which he was I deed charged with. Do the stats tend to support those charges? Or not?
Very well said, thank you.

Do you find it significant that there are first degree murder charges filed TWICE for the girls, for a total of five first degree murder charges?
 
I am assuming LE was keeping close tabs on CW, and have wondered why they didn't want CW to help with the search?Don't some return to the scene of the crime? He (potentially) could have led them there. I wonder if he would have gone back to gather anything left behind if he left in a hurry when receiving NUA's call about LE coming to the house for a well-check? Or, maybe, as you indicate, JudgeJudi, to dispose of additional evidence.

I have always believed that there was some suspicion of CW's involvement of their "disappearance" from the very beginning, and this is why a second officer was called to the home when NUA asked for a well-check.

We have additional evidence that LE believed he may have been involved, and this evidence ultimately led to his arrest and the charges against him.
- questioning of NUA at well-check where she indicated SW was not feeling well, missed her doctors appointment, and was told by CW that the two were separating.
- found SW's cellphone between couch cushions, and asked to take the phone (is this how LE discovered information about a possible AP through text messages)?
- CW's answers to LE's questioning raised suspicion, and as a result they continued to investigate his possible involvement.
- two day investigation and questioning of AP.
- bizarre interviews given to reporters by CW.
- report from the Thayer's about CW's odd behavior.
- search warrant for the home where sheets/pillowcases were found in kitchen garbage.
- additional evidence removed from the home.
- possible tracking of CW's movements through his GPS the morning of their disappearance.
- drone search of the CERVI location.
- discovery of matching sheet found at site.
- discovery of clandestine grave at site.
- confession by CW.

What we don't have (yet) is the evidence against CW that he is responsible for the deaths of BW and CCW. But we do know there is something based on his charges.

If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, it must be a duck. I want to know if it's a duck.
 
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