Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #7

[cottonweaver]

Welcome rabbit. Great first post.

Just on the first query - I'd need to read the NU /NA quotes again re the car seats etc and look again at the garage photos but that's interesting

 

[MerryB]

This is my first time posting in this thread although I've been following from the beginning, so I apologize in advance for the long post. I also just now watched his initial television interview for the first time. It has been too horrific of a case to observe in any way other than through writing until now. The interview made me sick.

My first thought is, how did anyone believe him? Even if I knew nothing of the case, even if I knew nothing of deceptive behavioral red flags, it was clear as day that he was completely off, knew far more than he was saying, was incredibly nervous, completely distanced from his family emotionally, and his entire intent in doing the video was to maintain his image as someone who cared about his family. He stammered, interjected "well like" "I mean" into every sentence, shrugged constantly, swayed non stop (which is a way of letting excess energy be released in a controlled way), sucked his lips in, talked about how Bella "was" about to start kindergarten. Idiot. I almost laughed watching it. I didn't, because it's all too awful.

I follow a "human lie detector" blog, run by a woman who works for law enforcement in analyzing whether people are lying or not. She's not a psychic - she doesn't say what they're covering up - but she's spot on at finding red flags. Her analysis of his interview is spot on. (link: Chris Watts Interview: My Thoughts) She ends it with "I personally suspect this man was controlling, angered easily and kept his demons behind closed doors. And something happened, and he snapped." BBM. Which I find interesting as I'm also hesitant to call him a psychopath and call it a day. I don't think he was a regular man who suddenly snapped terribly. But nor do I think he's a psychopath. I think he likely has some sort of personality disorder (how could he not?) and a plethora of issues, and something finally triggered this. I do think he snapped. He's clearly an incredibly tense, boiling over with rage, feeling hard-done-by man. I've met plenty of men who are just like he comes off in the interview. And I wouldn't put it past them to assault someone or something equally heinous. But I wouldn't expect them to murder someone, honestly. It's such a step further. I'm horribly curious as to what made him snap, and what was boiling in the meantime before. To be clear, I in no way think Shanann or the girls made him snap. This was not, in any way, shape, or form, their fault. I mean a circumstance that an ordinary person may respond to with severe distress or rage or even hurting themselves if they are already in a bad place, caused him to respond like this. My disgust for him is unending.

Welcome Ellie. I think one of the things that makes this case so disturbing is that, by all accounts, C.W. was a loving & involved husband & father. I just read an article this morning on People Mag’s site where a guy who was a friend of C.W.’s for years attests to this & is just shocked (link below).

So, I agree with you...yes, C.W. most likely has a personality disorder (or more—we should note that PDs tend to be a blend of PD types—usually a primary Dx and then 1 or more secondary Dx, which makes it hard for us to diagnose C.W. without knowing him). BUT, it had to be more than that to trigger this heinous family annihilation.

I personally think that the fact they included their house in their bankruptcy filing is potentially a huge factor here. They were not paying their mortgage (my opinion), they were not paying their HOA fees (their debt was discharged in 2015 but their HOA was suing for several years of unpaid dues), and I’m guessing they were losing the house.

For whatever reason, there’s no money. Did they run up more debt after 2015? Was there another issue still unknown to us that was putting financial stress on this couple (gambling, addiction, etc. etc.)??

Remember C.W. has a public defender. I’m guessing there’s no savings or retirement accounts to tap into for legal fees.

Factor their financial problems (which have been alluded to by family members), an upcoming court date, potential loss of the family home, an (unwanted by him) pregnancy, his affair & his desire to “start over,” and the pressure to keep up appearances, and I think it was a lethal combination with his existing PDs.

I agree that he did not snap as well, BTW. This seems premeditated, however extremely poorly.

Triple-Murder Suspect Chris Watts Seemed Like ‘Family Man’ Who 'Would Die For' Daughters: Friend

 

[Chloe_ee]

I don't think her being away for 6 weeks caused him to cheat. Someone that is going to cheat will always find a way and an excuse. They cheat because of a flaw within themselves, not because of what their spouse did or didn't do. They may blame it on the spouse but that's not why they cheated.

Oh, I don't think he cheated because she left for the summer, most cheaters have been cheating almost the whole relationship. I think SW was resigned to their marriage was ending, which is why she left for the summer. I don't think there was any rage from her when she found out he had a mistress. JMOO.

 

[Spellbound]

NC mother captures slain family on camera during beach trip
Michele Greer said the picture she took is chilling to her now -- a happy moment frozen in time before the unfathomable horror that shocked and crushed the nation.

Author: Savannah Levins
Published: 11:00 PM EDT August 21, 2018
Updated: 11:15 PM EDT August 21, 2018
A North Carolina mother, who took family vacation pictures at Myrtle Beach earlier this month, captured images of Shanann Watts and one of her two daughters days before they were murdered.

Shannan’s husband and the girls’ father, Chris Watts, is also visible in the photos. He is the prime suspect in their deaths.




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RELATED: Chris Watts appears in court, faces minimum of life in prison if convicted of murder
Michele Greer said she spoke with Shanann while their children played. The Fayetteville mom was horrified to hear what happened to Shanann and her two daughters just days after that interaction.

“She was very sweet and very loveable with the girls; it was all about the girls,” Michele recalled.

The two families met while waiting in line for the bungee trampolines at Myrtle Beach. Michele and Shanann hit it off right away.

“She was wonderful with the girls,” Michele said. “She told me she was expecting; she was very happy. She was very engaged with her little girls.”

However, Michele said, Chris seemed standoffish.

“He didn’t seem engaged at all,” said Michele. “There wasn’t any affection. She (Shanann) was very engaged with the girls, and he was just kind of standing there.”

In the background of Michele’s picture, you can see Shanann taking photos of four-year-old Bella. Shanann’s father appears to be beside her, Chris behind her.


The photos were taken August 2. Less than two weeks later, the news hit that Shannan and her girls were murdered, allegedly by Chris.

“I was heartbroken because I had just spoken to her two weeks ago,” Greer said. “It wasn’t just somebody I was reading about on the news, it was somebody I was engaging in a conversation with, someone I met, I had met her children. It hit hard.”

Michele said she doesn’t buy Chris’ side of the story. In an affidavit unsealed on Monday, Chris claimed Shanann killed the girls, and he retaliated in a rage, killing his wife and unborn son.

RELATED: Read the full arrest affidavit in the Watts murder case
“I don’t believe it one bit,” Greer said. “The person I saw interacting with her kids is not the person who would kill her children.”


Michele said the picture she took is chilling to her now -- a happy moment frozen in time before the unfathomable horror that shocked and crushed the nation.

“It is very eerie,” Michele said. “I was talking to my children on the way home from school, and they don’t understand. They said, 'What happened? Why did their daddy do that?' And I said, 'Honey, I don’t know, nobody knows.'"

Chris appeared in court Tuesday and was formally charged with nine felony counts including several counts of first-degree murder.

Just a heads up on quoting from articles and TOS, since this may get snipped. We can only post 10% of an article. I try to be careful, but I have occasinally copy/pasted too much and had it condensed by mods.

 

[bestill]

Does anyone else find it odd that someone you meet in a line, would take pictures of your children and family? I meet people in lines all the time, but that would creep me out if I knew they were taking pictures of my children and family.

And to interject that into this tragedy and opine about who killed the girls. People are strange.

 

[MCDRAW]

just my opinion, and it’s from


How was this taken in early August when it’s reported CW was at home and the girls and SW were in another state for the 5 weeks before the murders?

I think he went for one week to visit his and her family. they stayed longer.

 

[vaporlass]

I would love to, but I don't want to get into trouble! Whoever she is, my guess is she makes very good money and that she has a bright future from a career standpoint. I do think this guy is all about the money.

Is that possible with the BANKRUPTCY, that he could be all about money? Records show Macy’s $1k and Nordstrom’s $3k balances. I admit I don’t pay close attention to name brands others are wearing - did he wear nice clothes???
It seems strange that someone who was “all about money” allowed? his wife to spend so much at clothing stores and get so deeply in debt in the first place. She insisted he had wanted another baby (obviously changing his mind, later) which would mean a lot more money spent.
I’m still thinking it was control. He thought he owned them - like a slave owner - he had papers on her and those kids. He could do whatever he wanted to them in his mind.
I had a mentally, eventually physical abusive (ex-)husband - he told everyone “I have papers on that b!tch” I left, I knew he would kill me one day - that was 30+ years ago, but I remember it vividly. I took a lot of psychology and sociology classes to understand and to avoid choosing men like him ever again.

 

[Hazelnutty]

I have been around WS for almost 5 years now and made some great friends. This case has definitely brought a lot of us together as we attempt to collectively wrap our heads around what happened. Yesterday I mentioned that today is the anniversary of my son's death. It is a day that I generally prefer to take off, to spend time at his grave and to unplug with my living kids. Due to an offhand comment I made about CW's mistress, however, I have since been innundated with dozens of messages asking me to share the name. Some of those messages have not been nice-and some people sleuthed ME and contacted me off of WS. It has made an already stressful day even harder.

Look guys. They will release her name soon enough. It always happens. Unfortunately, we will be hearing about these folks ad nauseum for years to come. In fact, I fear that in time CW's name will be more repeated than Shanann's. That happens sometimes-we get more familiar with the criminal than the victim. I hope that doesn't happen here.

WS is awesome because we are victim friendly and we don't post rumors or sleuth family/friends. I do not have any inside info on this case but there are lots of other places out there where things can be found if one wants it badly enough. In time, though, I am sure that everything will make it to MSM. We will probably know more than we want to know. I feel awful for the family and friends who will have to sit back and watch and listen as Shanann is basically victimized again, this time by the defense and media.

I'm so sorry about the passing of your son. I can't imagine your grief .

How scary it must be it to have people sleuthing you &your personal life over an online comment! That's really scary. I hope they have stopped by now and have gained some insight regarding acceptable online & offline behavior and the very, very -----wide---- line between the two. And what is it with people being online that makes them think that being rude, mean and not nice all around is acceptable behavior?

I agree that soon enough we'll know more about CW and his (for now) unfortunate infidelity partner(s) than we ever cared to.

Kind thoughts your way.

 

[The Farm]

Does anyone else find it odd that someone you meet in a line, would take pictures of your children and family? I meet people in lines all the time, but that would creep me out if I knew they were taking pictures of my children and family.

Funny because I thought that was weird too. Like she knew her forever.

 

[Spellbound]

Here's another report of the woman who took pics of the family: Fayetteville mom captures slain family on camera during Myrtle Beach trip :: WRAL.com

 

[PommyMommy]

Newb here who has been lurking for days and unable to reply due to issues with my account... this could be a bit long and I apologize if quotes should be used (with so many threads and so much to comment on, I’m not sure it would be possible!)

Anyway- one maybe minor detail that has bothered me from day one is that her friend NAU has stated several times that upon arriving at the house to check on SW, one of the things that prompted her concerns (after she didn’t come to the door) was that SW car was in the garage and the car seats were in it, leading her to believe SW was inside..... HOWEVER, I cannot figure out how she could know those details. Based on photos I’ve seen of the house, there are no actual windows on the garage area besides the garage door windows. In photos of the garage doors it appears that the windows are quite slim and very high on the doors. There’s photos/videos of CW on his phone (the day of the interview) in front of these doors and it appears that even his 5’10” self would not be able to see into those windows. I don’t have physical stats on NAU but she appears to be quite a bit shorter than CW... I really can’t understand how she was able to not only see the Lexus in the garage, but also be able to see the car seats in it as well.
I know this may seem like a very trivial item to even bother with, but it’s something I noticed almost immediately and has bothered me since (and as more details, interviews, and speculation re NAU came about, this little detail continues to nag at me)

My theory/ speculation/ whatever is this:
The happy life portrayed on SM and throughout the community is 99% a facade mostly for the mlm sales aspect. I think CW was jealous and controlling and that from the outside looking in it would just seem SW has got such a great husband and they’re so in love and that’s why she’s always catering to him and swooning over him and appeasing to him. Many of her thrive friends / people who have traveled with her, made remarks that they were so in love that she would often run off to her room just to call him because she missed him.....
I myself have learned the art of making my friends think I’m running off to the bathroom to call my boyfriend because I just miss him SO much I can’t stand to be away from him for a night out with the girls.... when in all actuality I HAD to go call him because it was a stipulation of my night out and if I didn’t call I knew there’d be issues that would result in him raging. Often the convo was heated but I’d return to my friends and gush over how sweet he is that he just has to say goodnight to me. I feel like SW did a lot of this- 1)to keep anyone from suspecting their strained relationship 2)to stroke CW typical narcissistic ego 3)to not create any waves with CW
I’m wondering if she played off this possessiveness of CW to “her people” as just this crazy love and bond. I know that’s how I justified everything to my people. (Me to friends- “oh he works so hard and really takes care of me, he deserves to have a nice meal made when he gets home every day” Reality- “I’m exhausted, sick, really depressed, and I can’t stand him anymore but if I don’t have dinner made he’s going to curse me up and down for being lazy all day, accuse me of spending the day cheating, tell me how useless I am and then ignore me for days so it’s just easier to have dinner made every night”)
I think SW suspected or caught CW cheating and that is what prompted the extended stay in NC, some time apart to decide where to go from there. I think SW wanted to save the marriage and initially CW did too so he deleted his SM accounts in an attempt to show her that he wouldn’t be talking with other women. BUT, I think he didn’t realize how tough it would be to give up that double life, or the gf(s), the single free life he had those weeks he was a bachelor when the family was in NC.
Now, IMO, I think while SW was in AZ she had some reason to believe that CW was up to no good with the women again. Maybe she found out he left the girls with a sitter and immediately assumed he must be cheating again. NAU states SW had a medical issue that weekend... perhaps that was something along the lines of an anxiety attack being SO upset miles away from home and your kids, knowing your marriage is going to ending. I know it’s extremely tiring putting up such an act and carrying the facade around even when behind closed doors it’s all falling apart.
I think SW gets home and immediately confronts CW and an arguement erupts (wait, I mean “emotional conversation”). I think the sheets were ripped off the bed by SW... if it were me I would suspect my SO brought the AP into our home and our bed and I believe 100% one of the first things I would do is strip my bed and toss the sheets!! SW tells him it’s over and its possible she decides to sleep on the couch in the hallway (hence her phone being found in the cushions). CW knows the gig is up. I think CW then decides he’s going to kill them all and since she’s already told him she’s leaving, he can make it appear as if she took the kids and ran off. Or he intended to only kill her but while in the moment, the girls awoke and he had no choice but to get rid of them as well. My opinion on this will of course change if it comes out that the girls TOD was much earlier than SW.

**this was way longer than I intended and I apologize for that! Congrats if you’ve read through my entire mess! I promise I’ll learn and do better next time!

Hi Rabbithole, and thanks for joining us. CW says in one of his video interviews that the garage was unlocked.

 

[MCDRAW]

Delete

 

[enelram]

My father had some personality defect and was like Jekyll-Hyde.
Outsiders thought he was charming, funny, smart- all co-workers.
He had no friends who knew him well.
Within our family he was a rage-a-holic. And very physically abusive. When my father was out in public I didn't recognize
this person. As a kid I never understood why he was so fake.

My point is- you never really know what a person is like behind closed doors. Like a double-sided mirror.
I think CW was like this. What the public saw in him was not
genuine. It was his fake personna.

 

[MCDRAW]

Funny because I thought that was weird too. Like she knew her forever.

Yes! I kept thinking surely they are old friends. Then she says, I engaged in conversation with her. That is just creepy.

 

[vaporlass]

It's almost as if bodies aren't supposed to be stashed inside them.

Didn’t he have to climb stairs to drop them in??? He couldn’t have done this with SW.
The fact he drove to this place should be enough for anyone with doubts that this was PREMEDITATED... JMO

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Does anyone else find it odd that someone you meet in a line, would take pictures of your children and family? I meet people in lines all the time, but that would creep me out if I knew they were taking pictures of my children and family.

I agree it is odd and not typically done by people but the lady said SW and her bonded about her being pregnant and about her girls so maybe the women offered to take a pic of SW's daughter and send to it to SW through SM. Perhaps SW gave the lady her contact info. Also, I believe I saw the women's son in the forefront of one image with SW's daughter in the background while they were both doing their bungee activity simultaneously, so perhaps the photo was taken peripherally.

 

[Shelby1]

Besides Jodi Arias and her "fog", who else has used the "I blacked out" excuse and has it ever worked on a jury?

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks @MerryB for your link above

impression of the man they thought they knew.

“It’s beyond belief, really,” says Kris Landon, who has known the Watts family for about four years. “I never saw this coming.”
“His entire persona was as a family man, talking about his wife and his girls,” says Landon. “I believed until the other day that his entire life was those girls, and that he would die for them.”
“He’s just a very warm, personable person,” says Landon. “He never seemed like someone with anything to hide, because he is so good at looking you in the eye and talking to you. He’s very gifted with words, like he knew what to say to make you like him and warm up to him.”

IDK what to say on that cause IDK if Kris classes himself as a personal or just family friend of CW, probably latter. Doesn't know him well, just knows the persona.
The detail is interesting though, isn't it. (bold part)

 

[Yellow Rose]

Newb here who has been lurking for days and unable to reply due to issues with my account... this could be a bit long and I apologize if quotes should be used (with so many threads and so much to comment on, I’m not sure it would be possible!)

Anyway- one maybe minor detail that has bothered me from day one is that her friend NAU has stated several times that upon arriving at the house to check on SW, one of the things that prompted her concerns (after she didn’t come to the door) was that SW car was in the garage and the car seats were in it, leading her to believe SW was inside..... HOWEVER, I cannot figure out how she could know those details. Based on photos I’ve seen of the house, there are no actual windows on the garage area besides the garage door windows. In photos of the garage doors it appears that the windows are quite slim and very high on the doors. There’s photos/videos of CW on his phone (the day of the interview) in front of these doors and it appears that even his 5’10” self would not be able to see into those windows. I don’t have physical stats on NAU but she appears to be quite a bit shorter than CW... I really can’t understand how she was able to not only see the Lexus in the garage, but also be able to see the car seats in it as well.
I know this may seem like a very trivial item to even bother with, but it’s something I noticed almost immediately and has bothered me since (and as more details, interviews, and speculation re NAU came about, this little detail continues to nag at me)

My theory/ speculation/ whatever is this:
The happy life portrayed on SM and throughout the community is 99% a facade mostly for the mlm sales aspect. I think CW was jealous and controlling and that from the outside looking in it would just seem SW has got such a great husband and they’re so in love and that’s why she’s always catering to him and swooning over him and appeasing to him. Many of her thrive friends / people who have traveled with her, made remarks that they were so in love that she would often run off to her room just to call him because she missed him.....
I myself have learned the art of making my friends think I’m running off to the bathroom to call my boyfriend because I just miss him SO much I can’t stand to be away from him for a night out with the girls.... when in all actuality I HAD to go call him because it was a stipulation of my night out and if I didn’t call I knew there’d be issues that would result in him raging. Often the convo was heated but I’d return to my friends and gush over how sweet he is that he just has to say goodnight to me. I feel like SW did a lot of this- 1)to keep anyone from suspecting their strained relationship 2)to stroke CW typical narcissistic ego 3)to not create any waves with CW
I’m wondering if she played off this possessiveness of CW to “her people” as just this crazy love and bond. I know that’s how I justified everything to my people. (Me to friends- “oh he works so hard and really takes care of me, he deserves to have a nice meal made when he gets home every day” Reality- “I’m exhausted, sick, really depressed, and I can’t stand him anymore but if I don’t have dinner made he’s going to curse me up and down for being lazy all day, accuse me of spending the day cheating, tell me how useless I am and then ignore me for days so it’s just easier to have dinner made every night”)
I think SW suspected or caught CW cheating and that is what prompted the extended stay in NC, some time apart to decide where to go from there. I think SW wanted to save the marriage and initially CW did too so he deleted his SM accounts in an attempt to show her that he wouldn’t be talking with other women. BUT, I think he didn’t realize how tough it would be to give up that double life, or the gf(s), the single free life he had those weeks he was a bachelor when the family was in NC.
Now, IMO, I think while SW was in AZ she had some reason to believe that CW was up to no good with the women again. Maybe she found out he left the girls with a sitter and immediately assumed he must be cheating again. NAU states SW had a medical issue that weekend... perhaps that was something along the lines of an anxiety attack being SO upset miles away from home and your kids, knowing your marriage is going to ending. I know it’s extremely tiring putting up such an act and carrying the facade around even when behind closed doors it’s all falling apart.
I think SW gets home and immediately confronts CW and an arguement erupts (wait, I mean “emotional conversation”). I think the sheets were ripped off the bed by SW... if it were me I would suspect my SO brought the AP into our home and our bed and I believe 100% one of the first things I would do is strip my bed and toss the sheets!! SW tells him it’s over and its possible she decides to sleep on the couch in the hallway (hence her phone being found in the cushions). CW knows the gig is up. I think CW then decides he’s going to kill them all and since she’s already told him she’s leaving, he can make it appear as if she took the kids and ran off. Or he intended to only kill her but while in the moment, the girls awoke and he had no choice but to get rid of them as well. My opinion on this will of course change if it comes out that the girls TOD was much earlier than SW.

**this was way longer than I intended and I apologize for that! Congrats if you’ve read through my entire mess! I promise I’ll learn and do better next time!

I don't know who you are but you need to definitely remove yourself from that relationship with your "boyfriend." Please please please. Been there, done that and almost didn't leave with my life.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Does anyone else find it odd that someone you meet in a line, would take pictures of your children and family? I meet people in lines all the time, but that would creep me out if I knew they were taking pictures of my children and family.

Yes, my first thought reading the article was the photo looks intrusive, like a paparazzi shot. Very strange.