CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

[CARIIS]

Last part of it ( no point pasting up part 4 here, as that's the unravelling from afternoon of the 13th when NUA arrives.)

Part 3.

So it's now Around 4am through 5.27am due to all the delays as previously outlined. He starts to put his disposal plan into operation.

He has lost so much time & he isn't thinking straight now either. ( Although killing her once she's fallen asleep made everything so much quicker, silent and avoiding trashing the house & waking the neighbours)

1. He goes to get the bags which he had identified earlier butwas unable to prep/get out of storage prior to her arrival.(As she would see them & wonder why he needed these laundry/sports holdalls, whatever). He now packs the kids in the bags. (PS Often rigor mortis is negligible in kids' bodies regardless of ToD. Also correct me on use of bags if no MSM substantiation for that)
   
   
2. He has to lock the dog, now fully awake, into the garage as the dog starts to get agitated. The dog has either witnessed one of the murders or sensed one of it's loved ones is dead as the bodies are being prepared by CW for transport. Locked away the dog starts to howl 4-5am but it's getting too late to do anything about the dog's cries. ( Fox news article link, neighbour hears dog howling etc.PS irony that Fox = MSM linkable but JMO....)
   
   
3. CW has to check that the house is entirely locked up. He leaves her phone where she left it, he'll deal with that when he gets back from work along with the other personal effects. ( In reality he has to give it to the cops later that afternoon.)
   
   
4. He takes the top sheet & pillow cases off the bed or out of the closet ( or from bedroom unknown, let's assume master bed, affidavit doesn't actually stipulate which room it is from) and puts them in the trash. He possibly strips some other bedding off the master bed which LE later inspects– unknown what items exactly from affidavit so reasons unknown, just classed as "bedding".( All we know is there's no visible signs of foul play so no obvious human material on it. Could it even be as simple as affair evidence on it from weekend stay-over from affair person? That's why CW stripped it?Who knows?) He'll deal with trash disposal when he gets home - he only needs one sheet to wrap SW in during transport.
   
   
5. 5.27am he backs up his truck, knowing neighbour has camera and loads them all + the gas can and his tools & drives away shortly after. (The children are later deposited in the tanks still inside those bags. The sheet left in “a field near the tank battery” is an oversight/ it blew there whilst digging, he intended to bring it home and deal with it when disposing of the rest of the linen. Gas can is taken in case he needs extra fuel – he can't afford to fill up and be seen at a fuel stop.)
   
   
6. He arrives at the tank battery CERVI 319 after a long drive.
   
   
7. Children deposited quickly in each tank – he'd possibly prepped the bolts at a previous visit to that battery. He tries to carry SW into one of the openings. She is heavy and will not fit into the hatch. ( need to check the links again on measurements) He starts to dig a grave ( he's always carried a shovel etc ready in his car for work purposes,) the ground is rock hard so he digs her into one of the berms instead where the earth is softer. He's running out of time to keep to his work shift pattern and it's warm already & light. ( Sun rise 6.20 am colorado) He will have to come back later and either dig better or carry out an unknown Plan B for SW's disposal. ( Rigor mortis sets in 2-6 hrs after death so debateable whether it has set in already and whether this hindered him re SW or other reason he chooses burial.)
   
   
8. He now leaves remote CERVI 319 with intent to return and do a better job with the grave another time. He has to get onto his work schedule and look innocent. Later that morning, CW makes calls & texts to SW's phone to ensure these calls are logged on his phone, to look innocent. ( SW was scheduled at 10 am doctors apptmnt and he would know that, so he may have called around 10am to show an interest in that)

NB it takes very little pressure and time to strangle, especially if victims are asleep. If it's done that effectively as described above, there may be no DNA under anyone's fingernails, no scratches on the assailant due to easy restraint when a victim is so defenceless

When we have the autopsy full results we'll find out the actual facts. ( Parts 1 & 2 on pages 2-3 of thread 9)

Could it even be as simple as affair evidence on it from weekend stay-over from affair person? That's why CW stripped it?Who knows?)

I am not sure if someone who has a dead wife and two kids in the house is worrying about if he gets caught in the affair

of course he lied at first - what is the first thing cops think of -- is the spouse cheating? That is prime time movie of the week . It is in the same category imo as the bewilderment (which totally bewilders me) that on porch interview he acted like a concerned husband and father rather than a husband who killed his wife.

The all the I knew he was lying reads as if it is typical for a murderer to go on national tv and report he murdered his wife????

He came clean about it once he explained how the tragedy occurred.

Murder 101. Open some door window - you cant have a murder scene without some way to explain how a murderer got in. However, when what he says happened it certainly makes sense that he was not trying to make anything look anyway.

Everything was a wreck cause he was freaked out by what had transpired. Everything was left as it when he realized he had three dead people in his home . Does not sound like someone planning this elaborate triple murder - sounds like everything went horribly wrong.

if one is planning on a triple murder - one would probably know that they will need their truck to transport said bodies.

same planner would know I think that he cant be loading dead bodies in his driveway . Might be a problem.

Put your truck in the garage before you kill three people.

A cunning triple murderer planner would know that he can't just take three bodies out without covering them . Have that out and ready.

This might just me but I don't think I would be , prior to murdering my family be really in the mood for a little bbq - I would be rehearsing and planning everything - bbq chicken aint on my mind.

Covering that apparently blew up does not strike me as a particularly planned cover and transport system.

Someone planning a triple murder would probably address work in some fashion (sick vacation car wont start etc etc)



jmo

 

[stmarysmead]

I might write a scenario setting out CW’s possible defense. Then all of us...myself included...can shred it. But not emotionally...logically.

 

[CFlo]

Local news here in Colorado just said that funeral services for Shanann and the children are scheduled for September 1st. I believe they said it will be in NC, but will also be live streamed so that friends in Colorado can attend virtually. I'll try to find a link.

I’m seeing the same just through many mutual SM fiends, but haven’t seen any thing official in MSM either. Mutual friends are in the area in NC as well, so I’m leaning to it’s fact and it’s also a long weekend with Monday being a US holiday.

 

[Sabrina1011]

EXCELLENT POST CGW!
The only thing I could add to this is CW could still have killed the girls before SW arrived home. He could have staged their bodies underneath their blankets in such a way as though they were sleeping. That way if SW viewed them on the baby monitor they would appear to be sleeping or if SW peeked into the room they would appear sleeping. Only risk in that scenerio is if SW went to give them a kiss she would have discovered them dead

Look at the past cases though where killers- even serial killers have dogs.
Some dogs witness multiple murders without alerting neighbours in the same apartment.
plus very few dogs stop/attack murders when the perp is their master .

I personally feel the dog would have barked ( not necessarily howled) if it saw anyone being killed.
The thing about strangling people when they are asleep and then closing the door on the bodies ( until you need to start moving them thru the house and out) is you can keep the dog away. It doesn't need to be a drag-out noisy struggle.

In the spec scenario I posted, the dog either doesn't know kids are dead/ the kids aren't dead at 2am and simply if the dog greets SW at 2am it shows no anxious behaviour to her because of that.

My experience with dogs has been quite different. We have a small dog and she will bark at any sort of contact, like a hug between family members and gets very anxious if there is any loud voices/ disagreements. I could be wrong but I also think that dogs are very sensitive to the difference between a dead body and an alive person. Even if the body is in a closed room the dog has an insane sense of smell and I think would be distressed. Maybe someone who has expertise with dogs can clarify. I think it could be useful to know. As for the neighbor hearing Deeder wailing, that says a lot as well IMO of course.

 

[Amonet]

I like to think I’m a caring loving mother, but if my husband told me when I got in late at night that the kids had been unsettled, missing me, but he had managed to finally get them to sleep, I’d probably not risk waking them and just leave them (knowing that they’d likely be in my bed with me anyway in an hour or two).

I don't think it makes a mom uncaring if she doesn't want to risk waking children who are easily woken. But this came about from a comment that I think implied that it was unlikely a mom in that situation would risk waking the kids by going into their rooms when she got home in the middle of the night.

All we're doing is saying that not all children are easily woken, they can just as easily be very deep sleepers. If that's the case it's absolutely logical Shanann would have gone to check on them when she came in from a weekend away.

And I think the comment about Shanann being a loving mom was more in response to how she appears to be a very loving mom from her visible demeanor to her children in photos, videos, stories, and feeling she's being unfairly attacked and maligned by some (maybe not here). So I think it was more of a defensive comment than to imply that a loving mom would go into check and if the mom didn't go into check, then she must be a bad mom.

We haven't heard anything to say that CW had been anything other than an apparently loving and good dad prior to that night.

But, familicide by fathers of children and wife, often seems to happen like this? While I haven't read up on every single case, none of the few I did read about said anything about earlier abuse of the children by the familicidal man. Where only one child is killed, or where the 'mother' kills the children (excepting cases where the mother breaks through depression/sudden onset psychosis) I think you're more likely to find that there would be prior child abuse of some kind, whether that's neglect, physical abuse, or emotional abuse.

 

[SuperTmo]

What if this is why the prosecution is charging it as a first degree murder charge? There is a lot we don't know and I do believe, like everyone else, those bed sheets will play into it. I didn't really look at the sheets until every one started mentioning them.

I’m a few pages behind so maybe we have already covered this but there are two sets of bedding being discussed in the arrest affidavit, I think. They first mention the bedding on the floor of the master bedroom. Then separately they mention the sheet and pillow cases that are in the kitchen trash can.

I assumed the pile of bedding on the floor of the bedroom was the sheets and blankets and pillows, and the stuff in the trash was different.

 

[Amonet]

It’s possible too that the dog disappearing along with the family would look suspicious. Would they take the dog along to visit one of her friends since that was his story?

Maybe the dog hid?

I remember reading at least one familicide case where the family dog(s) was killed along with the rest of the family. But I don't know how common it is for the pet to be killed or left alive.

I don't know much about dogs, but I'd think especially with a smaller dog that he might feel more inclined to hide even if he wants to try to protect his family. And it must have been very confusing and distressing for Dieter if he was around and saw any of this for him to see his daddy attacking his mommy and his playmate girls.

 

[KALI]

In the McStay family, both sides of the family got together to take care of things.
However they did not know that they had all been murdered.
This situation is going to be tough.
There are a lot of bills to be paid. I guess the first thing would be contacting the lenders.
There is equity in the house, however, I imagine it going back to the bank because who is going to want to buy it after 3 murders in it?

I know this is a really weird question. But what happens to the home and personal belongings in cases like this.
Is SW family in charge of selling things and or returning things (the Lexus) or is CW family in charge.
Do you sell all the clothes do you throw things away. The house now sits empty full of belongings for people whom are no longer here.
I know weird question.
I was watching a video on SW FB talking about the new fridge they just bought and just thought hum what happens to everything now.

 

[vaporlass]

I have not seen anyone on the thread defending Chris. What I have read here are people who believe he committed the horrors he confessed to.

There is a world of difference imo !

Before the confession came out I had started to have notions about the participants in the relationship.

These were different ideas than the majority of folks appear to have gleaned from the SM stuff.

I saw mostly, a intense desire to show , possibly, a total facade (obviously )of what was really happening with the relationship.

Relationships are always two way streets.

My difference of opinion is just that -- what he did was horrid.

I do however believe that there is more to the story .

I am fully aware that they charged him for the kids. Folks are charged daily for things that did not occur.

It is important IMO to remain cognizant of the simple fact that he did not change his confession - ever. The media (everywhere) over time changed what he said to LE>

Interestingly , this error , evolved over time. Early on every outlet always stated "allegedly" or "reportedly"

I found that odd all along. But from where it is now I understand it better.

Medias desire to blast a shocking headline .

The "allergy " and "reportedly" , for new reason other than a more dramatic headline changed to the erroneous blaring headline:

Husbands admits to killing wife and two chilren - when in fact he never confessed to any such thing.

If he had, happens , it would be in filings submitted to a court of law.

In much the same way as they reported that he denied an affair (what man or woman does not?) was clearly indicated in the filing.

The way it stands now is the erroneous public perception that he confessed to killing all three of them .

He simply never said that, nor confess to such.

There are rules we follow here. However that does not preclude being aware of things that do not meet certain criteria here.

Much online is speculation, granted.

Everything on line however, is not BS.

So to the come to the conclusion that those of us who have a differing opinion are trolls is not accurate.

As far as I go I have been here for bit- and I am confident that the notion of my having any interest in trolling anyone, anything ,at any time ,in any instance would not be endorsed by any member who has been with us for quite some time.

That is what WS is about.

ONe's beliefs who are different than others are fine - they are personal opinions.

Which does not make them any more correct or likely.

They are opinions - and based on (just like everyone else) those concussions are formed as a result of a whole host of things individual to each person.

We all base our notions on our experiences - and my experience (does not make it more or less likely than anyone else's) in all liklihood resulted in my observing some things in a different light .

That does not make me right. That makes me me!

Those of us who have spent time together here are also aware in any tragedy "monster" " hope X rots in""evil" have never been nor will ever be in my worldview.

I understand venting (for sure!) but for me calling another human being a monster does not really help me .

All behavior (good or bad or horrible) has meaning.

In addition, after all these years here, I have two people on ignore. Ignoring thoughts and ideas that differ from mine basically translates IMO not having the option to think of something different than I thought.

That happens for me often here. Often it is aloud!! OH!

Then often followed by "my god I never thought of that" typically followed by some new search terms in Google!

In much the same fashion , those who endorse a belief system do so passionately. The same is true for others who have a different conclusion - it done with passion as well.

This blind notion that LE is often correct , is not true.

People are let out daily for LE blunders.

I would like to think that had the media not gotten the confession wrong for several days - there might be some folks more willing or able to consider that his confession might be what actually did occur.

Play around with "Fantasy Bonding" IMO the answers are there - terms of the why- it relates to this tragedy

that is jmo !

moo

I agree!
It’s always good to consider both sides, imo. At the same time that it kind of irritates me when someone tries to defend CW, I remind myself that it’s important to hear other opinions from those who believe differently because it makes me think more critically and question my belief that he killed all 3, and that he premeditatively planned it.
I know it may feel threatening or even seem like bullying when others have opposing views - but everyone is just expressing their opinions from their own experiences most of the time.
In other words, opposing views shouldn’t threaten anyone, it should instead - cement your opinion by encouraging more critical thinking/research.
So far, my opinion hasn’t changed - but I’m still waiting (withholding final judgment) until we get more facts and I really want to hear from someone that CW was a good boy/man before he married SW (or pre-Colorado). Where are they? Does anyone have any PAST information on CW?

 

[flourish]

For those that believe his story that they had an emotional conversation or fight on her return:

Why no signs of a fight at the house?

I don't know that i believe him but it's entirely possible to have an argument without throwing things or destroying property. Most of my worst arguments with my husband have left no visible trace.

 

[Bill Carson]

I've found out some more information about the HOA lawsuit.

They were being sued for non-payment of dues and assessments. The total of the assessments and late charges was $683.80. The lawsuit was seeking an additional $650 for attorney's fees and $200 in court costs for a total of $1,533.80.

The lawsuit was filed on July 12, 2018, but both CW and SW signed Waivers of Service on June 30. That means the lawsuit was no surprise, and they were essentially agreed for a judgment to be entered against them for $1,553.80, plus interest at 18% per annum, plus additional attorney's fees and court costs if they filed a responsive pleading.

To me, this means they couldn't come up with $684 to get their HOA dues up to date. I would say it points to a dire financial situation. Why wouldn't you pay the dues before the lawsuit was filed if you could? Why have to pay the extra $200 in court costs and have a lawsuit as a public record against you?

 

[Bill Carson]

Here are the Waivers signed by CW and SW.

 

[BingoBongo]

He says otherwise, though. It's part of the investigation to determine what really happened. The DA can't walk into the courtroom and say "I believe CW killed everyone in that house and you should too." The defense has to be heard.

Of course he does. Most guilty parties, and their attys. do. And of course it all has to be verified and established as fact in court...but based on what we know, as fact, currently...the fingers should be pointing in his direction.

 

[cottonweaver]

We don't know that there weren't signs of a fight at the house.

Det Baumhover waited til 7am the next day though, checked in with CW that she hadn't returned (affidavit has it as 7am - BOLO and has them on the preceding evening starting house to house )
and affi lists all pertinent signs per cause- sheets in trash etc

wouldn't they arrest him if they'd found signs of a fight - rather than leave him loose all night at the crime scene?
why list specific items in affi and no other signs that they had noticed?

 

[nd1313]

Shanann Watts 'Didn't Want to Believe' Husband Chris Was Cheating: Friend

Wonder if said Mistress could be a motive? If she wasn't part of the crime and had no involvement, I highly recommend she immediately distance herself from this monster and lawyer up.

 

[MCDRAW]

I think you can make an argument that he was distant because he was having an affair. But I can't jump from having an affair to murdering the whole family in this case. Maybe in other cases. But not this case.

Murdering a whole entire family because of an affair never makes any sense to me. Not when divorces are so easy to come by.

 

[notrust]

Could it even be as simple as affair evidence on it from weekend stay-over from affair person? That's why CW stripped it?Who knows?)

I am not sure if someone who has a dead wife and two kids in the house is worrying about if he gets caught in the affair

of course he lied at first - what is the first thing cops think of -- is the spouse cheating? That is prime time movie of the week . It is in the same category imo as the bewilderment (which totally bewilders me) that on porch interview he acted like a concerned husband and father rather than a husband who killed his wife.

The all the I knew he was lying reads as if it is typical for a murderer to go on national tv and report he murdered his wife????

He came clean about it once he explained how the tragedy occurred.

Murder 101. Open some door window - you cant have a murder scene without some way to explain how a murderer got in. However, when what he says happened it certainly makes sense that he was not trying to make anything look anyway.

Everything was a wreck cause he was freaked out by what had transpired. Everything was left as it when he realized he had three dead people in his home . Does not sound like someone planning this elaborate triple murder - sounds like everything went horribly wrong.

if one is planning on a triple murder - one would probably know that they will need their truck to transport said bodies.

same planner would know I think that he cant be loading dead bodies in his driveway . Might be a problem.

Put your truck in the garage before you kill three people.

A cunning triple murderer planner would know that he can't just take three bodies out without covering them . Have that out and ready.

This might just me but I don't think I would be , prior to murdering my family be really in the mood for a little bbq - I would be rehearsing and planning everything - bbq chicken aint on my mind.

Covering that apparently blew up does not strike me as a particularly planned cover and transport system.

Someone planning a triple murder would probably address work in some fashion (sick vacation car wont start etc etc)

He isn't cunning. It very well may be that he didn't spend days or weeks planning these murders. I believe that at some point he decided to kill his family. The time frame from that decision to acting on it might be small. But I believe it was deliberate.

I don't see the man as much of a planner anyway. SW made him 5 weeks worth of meals while she was away. He was doted on and babied. Not knowing how to clean up the crime scene efficiently doesn't mean he didn't commit murder.

 

[CFlo]

someone just looking to say the opposite of anyone that posts without any experience

do we know anyone experiences or knowledge ?

do we know anyones reasons for posting ?

if so, how?

Hi, it’s probably just being a Friday, but I’m still not following, but I will try my best...
Looking to say the opposite of anyone without experience? As for experiences, there are other various legal cases, folks on this forum, and myself includes that can speak to certain experiences... some including finding their child “blue”.
I’m at a loss for the rest of where you’re trying to go, again would love to understand it... it may just be me today, but I’m not getting to what you’re immediately asking, or going.
One last shot in the dark for me. With so much not yet realeases, we can go by experiences, prior legal cases, psychological reasoning/facts of how the human mind works in ALL situations including mental disorders OR the affects thereto from physical disorders or diseases, etc. This also would include comparing centuries to CW “partial confession.”
I today know from my own experiences, what has been proven without a reasonable doubt in other cases, etc etc etc. I can also read clearly that he was having an “active affair”. I can also read clearly he admitted to killing SW (and their 16 week old second trimester child). If he can kill a wife and child, what leads anyone to ebelieve that he couldn’t kill the other two.
jMo

 

[notrust]

easily if you look at her FB she has pics with a certain guy friend and if one clicks his FB he has photos that make them look more like a couple than CW had of his own wife

really do not want to post pic but could easily grab a recent screen shot of SW with CM together, a picture is a thousand words

His wife is in those pictures as well. You are really overstepping imo.

 

[NuttMegg]

Could it even be as simple as affair evidence on it from weekend stay-over from affair person? That's why CW stripped it?Who knows?)

I am not sure if someone who has a dead wife and two kids in the house is worrying about if he gets caught in the affair

of course he lied at first - what is the first thing cops think of -- is the spouse cheating? That is prime time movie of the week . It is in the same category imo as the bewilderment (which totally bewilders me) that on porch interview he acted like a concerned husband and father rather than a husband who killed his wife.

The all the I knew he was lying reads as if it is typical for a murderer to go on national tv and report he murdered his wife????

He came clean about it once he explained how the tragedy occurred.

Murder 101. Open some door window - you cant have a murder scene without some way to explain how a murderer got in. However, when what he says happened it certainly makes sense that he was not trying to make anything look anyway.

Everything was a wreck cause he was freaked out by what had transpired. Everything was left as it when he realized he had three dead people in his home . Does not sound like someone planning this elaborate triple murder - sounds like everything went horribly wrong.

if one is planning on a triple murder - one would probably know that they will need their truck to transport said bodies.

same planner would know I think that he cant be loading dead bodies in his driveway . Might be a problem.

Put your truck in the garage before you kill three people.

A cunning triple murderer planner would know that he can't just take three bodies out without covering them . Have that out and ready.

This might just me but I don't think I would be , prior to murdering my family be really in the mood for a little bbq - I would be rehearsing and planning everything - bbq chicken aint on my mind.

Covering that apparently blew up does not strike me as a particularly planned cover and transport system.

Someone planning a triple murder would probably address work in some fashion (sick vacation car wont start etc etc)



jmo

It could be so simple as his having his mistress over that evening and sending her home early because his wife was coming. He could have been POd because Sw was 3-4 hours late and he sent the mistress home early.

I would have noticed had my husband EVER changed the sheets.