CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

[DAdvocate]

My latest theory is that CW hadn't planned this murder out beforehand. (The deleting of the SM a week before is very suspicious, however.)

I think the girls were alive and asleep when SW got home.

I think SW's suspicions of CW's infidelity became confirmed when she got back from NC. Perhaps a friend mentioned seeing CW with a woman, or someone mentioned seeing a woman enter the house while she was gone. Or maybe SW came across some evidence of the affair at the home.

SW may have ripped the sheets off the bed when she learned that his lover had slept in the bed.

SW was going to sleep on the couch that night. CW was not happy. They got into a fight (an "emotional discussion," if you will). It got physical, and loud. The children started to wake. He put his hands on her throat and started squeezing. The rage filled inside of him. She struggled and thrashed, he held on tight, and one or both of the kids walked in and saw this. SW went limp, and the kids started screaming.

What was he to do? His daughters just saw their father kill their mother. They were screaming, the dog was howling. The neighbors will hear! He puts his hand over his daughter's mouth to stop the screaming, and it only worked if he cut her air off entirely. Eventually, she went limp, too, and it was on to the other daughter.

Then he went into panic mode, cleaned up the mess as best as he could. Locked the dog in the garage while he figured out what to do with the bodies.

I would say he would have better odds convincing the children that they didn't see what they saw vs. what you are saying. IMO.

 

[BingoBongo]

I don't take offense, but I do find it a bit...unnerving. I agree with another poster, in that some of these posts, seemingly in support of CW, appear to be "bait".

If we are going to sleuth, from an intellectual standpoint vs. emotional, we should listen to all views, BUT, that doesn't keep me (can only speak for myself) from forming very strong opinions based on the facts so far, AND, personal observations of his behavior in interviews and court.

 

[Shekkiec]

Odd. Even stranger IMO is that they couldn't pay this and apparently didn't care, but they came up with airfare for 4 to NC which would have paid that and some left over...

I have never paid HOA dues so asking for knowledge . Is it possible somehow they were agreeing to go to court bc they felt they did not owe ? Or do you think they would cover under a next bankruptcy or by selling the house money ?

 

[notrust]

The proof of his guilt is in the aftermath imo. Who disposes of bodies (and in such a desecrating way) if they are innocent? An innocent person would have nothing to hide, nothing to lie about. Calling 911 and having LE immediately at the house afterward would make his story believable. The forensics of her strangling the children would be obvious. There would be no wrong doing on his behalf and he would work with LE instead of against them. He would bury his children in a way that memorialized them.

His instincts here show me that he is entirely guilty. Like a child who breaks a cookie jar while sneaking cookies, haphazardly cleans it up, and denies ever touching it even though there are remnants on the floor and crumbs on his face.

 

[DAdvocate]

I like this theory until the kids part. The first part is so likely and I've been in situations similar to this. I can imagine him trying to silence her by these means. But I don't think he would then address the kids. This doesn't make sense to me, but what does? We know he killed them so I don't know why I can't process this.

We don't know he killed them. We know he killed her and the unborn baby.

 

[gitana1]

I might write a scenario setting out CW’s possible defense. Then all of us...myself included...can shred it. But not emotionally...logically.

Using your post as a jumping off point, I want to state that logic and emotion aren't always unrelated. What I look at in these cases is human nature. How do people typically act in various situations? How do they act when guilty? When insane with grief? When desperate to see their children?

For example, over and over people have sagely explained to me on threads that it is smart to hire an attorney, refuse polygraphs and not talk to police when accused of killing or disappearing a loved one. And so doing so means nothing.

However, they discount human nature- emotion. That an innocent parent or innocent and loving spouse will do ANYTHING to find their loved one or make sure their killer is prosecuted. Even if it risks their own freedom.

An example was the Kyron Horman case. People patiently explained that the step mother was wise not to undergo a psychological custody evaluation in order to regain custody of her child. Because she could thereby incriminate herself criminally.

But no sane and innocent parent would give a damn. Not if they loved their child.

Human behavior is a necessary part of any analysis of a defense.

 

[Gingerbread7]

I hate to say it, but he has a defense.

Just because it appears she had a good relationship with her dad, mom, siblings does not translate to her thinking they will be able to help her if she is alone with the children. He may have even threatened to take them from her because of her chronic illness or expose her facade. She was tired, pregnant, vulnerable in her thought process, and the threat of being left could have been too much. Women are just as capable of committing crimes in the heat of the moment as a man.

That being said, if the cadaver dogs hit on death in the master bedroom, it is over. Because I highly doubt he removed her from the children's room he saw her in, to the master bedroom to strangle her there. He stated he saw one child blue on the monitor, and her actively strangling the other child on the monitor. Pretty sure they just had cameras in the children's rooms. If they were having an "emotional discussion" and the littlest one wakes up early as I believe SW mentioned, which is why the girls had early bed times, the lights may have been on, and the girls awake.

 

[Bill Carson]

I like this theory until the kids part. The first part is so likely and I've been in situations similar to this. I can imagine him trying to silence her by these means. But I don't think he would then address the kids. This doesn't make sense to me, but what does? We know he killed them so I don't know why I can't process this.

I agree that the kid part is . . . tenuous. But it is the only way I can make sense of things right now.

Either we have to believe that CW is a cold blooded killer, who planned everything in advance, and who murdered his children to spite his wife (maybe even in front of her eyes), or there was another reason they were killed. This is my brainstorming as to that other reason. I do think it is very possible they woke up during an altercation and were subject to his rage.

 

[CARIIS]

We know more than that, we know much of their personal history due to family, friend, SM, etc. We also know much of their financial history.

And, most importantly, we know he's a liar.

Actually he told the truth - he did not his father to hear it on the news.

He told LE quickly that he was going to come clean

- he confessed to killing his wife and moving everyone. An That kinda sounds like a honest murderer if you think about it

He pretended like he did not know what happened (most murderers do so) Difference here - is shortly thereafter he told the truth



he was also an honest cheater - he acknowledged thus.

I don't feel like we know a lot. We know posed pictures, we know they filed bankruptcy three years ago, we know had a relationship with a female We know he killed her and placed them .

Has anyone ever found out his exact position ? Someone posted a generic thing but we have no idea what he did to consistently provide for his family with a steady paycheck .

We have proof (although grueling!) that he made an attempt to do some collage work - i assume in an effort to provide for his family (speculation only tho)

we know he bbq

he drove his truck backwards into his garage

and guys

i think this a tragedy where LE is totally done saying one thing.

The autopsies were a week ago

I think they are done releasing

 

[Herat]

I've found out some more information about the HOA lawsuit.

They were being sued for non-payment of dues and assessments. The total of the assessments and late charges was $683.80. The lawsuit was seeking an additional $650 for attorney's fees and $200 in court costs for a total of $1,533.80.

The lawsuit was filed on July 12, 2018, but both CW and SW signed Waivers of Service on June 30. That means the lawsuit was no surprise, and they were essentially agreed for a judgment to be entered against them for $1,553.80, plus interest at 18% per annum, plus additional attorney's fees and court costs if they filed a responsive pleading.

To me, this means they couldn't come up with $684 to get their HOA dues up to date. I would say it points to a dire financial situation. Why wouldn't you pay the dues before the lawsuit was filed if you could? Why have to pay the extra $200 in court costs and have a lawsuit as a public record against you?

This is really interesting, Bill Carson

$684 for dues and assessments. Would be interesting to see how much was back dues & how much was an assessment & for what.

Rather than pay $650 attorney fees, $200 court costs & 18% interest, they could have used a payday loan to pay off the $ 684 and savec a helluva lot of money.

Someone wasnt paying attention or thinking logically about this

 

[Mrspratcher]

I've found out some more information about the HOA lawsuit.

They were being sued for non-payment of dues and assessments. The total of the assessments and late charges was $683.80. The lawsuit was seeking an additional $650 for attorney's fees and $200 in court costs for a total of $1,533.80.

The lawsuit was filed on July 12, 2018, but both CW and SW signed Waivers of Service on June 30. That means the lawsuit was no surprise, and they were essentially agreed for a judgment to be entered against them for $1,553.80, plus interest at 18% per annum, plus additional attorney's fees and court costs if they filed a responsive pleading.

To me, this means they couldn't come up with $684 to get their HOA dues up to date. I would say it points to a dire financial situation. Why wouldn't you pay the dues before the lawsuit was filed if you could? Why have to pay the extra $200 in court costs and have a lawsuit as a public record against you?

Looks like $54.00 was the monthly assessment, plus $15.00 in the event they were late. So, approximately 10 months in arrears?

 

[gitana1]

We don't know he killed them. We know he killed her and the unborn baby.

Nope. We either know nothing - because we weren't there and cannot pick and choose what we decide he's tellling the truth about - or we can use our God-given cognitive abilities, critical thinking skills and basic logic to deduce that it is beyond any reasonable doubt that he annihilated his whole family.

His story is utter, incomprehensible nonsense.

 

[Bill Carson]

I have never paid HOA dues so asking for knowledge . Is it possible somehow they were agreeing to go to court bc they felt they did not owe ? Or do you think they would cover under a next bankruptcy or by selling the house money ?

The court appearance date for the HOA lawsuit was August 24 (today). That date has been pushed back until October, while the HOA decides how to proceed (per their motion to postpone today's hearing).

As of yesterday (or CW's arrest, for that matter), the Watts had not filed a response to the lawsuit, so they had not made any claim that they did not owe or should not have to pay. If that were their claim, I don't understand why they would sign a Waiver, which is a document agreeing to waive the right to be officially served with the paperwork.

 

[Deleted member 122964]

The proof of his guilt is in the aftermath imo. Who disposes of bodies (and in such a desecrating way) if they are innocent? An innocent person would have nothing to hide, nothing to lie about. Calling 911 and having LE immediately at the house afterward would make his story believable. The forensics of her strangling the children would be obvious. There would be no wrong doing on his behalf and he would work with LE instead of against them. He would bury his children in a way that memorialized them.

His instincts here show me that he is entirely guilty. Like a child who breaks a cookie jar while sneaking cookies, haphazardly cleans it up, and denies ever touching it even though there are remnants on the floor and crumbs on his face.

Yes, THIS. This is exactly where my thoughts return when I try to remain open to the possibility of reasonable doubt. I just cannot get past the fact that he acted guilty by trying to cover things up. You are exactly right when you say that an innocent person would call 911.

Why would he cover for his wife if he truly knew that she had killed his children? Not in a million years would I cover for anyone who killed my child. I would scream from the rooftops that the person did it. I would be enraged, distraught, astonished, just absolutely beside myself. Yet, CW gave interview after interview where he shrugged and went on about his "vanished" family. No, if he truly saw someone else kill his child, he would want justice. I cannot convince myself otherwise.

However, we don't get to decide his fate. This is left in the hands of the jury he will face. I just hope that the jury is able to see his many deceptions and not dishonor the memory of SW and her beautiful children.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

We don't know he killed them. We know he killed her and the unborn baby.

MOST LIKELY
I go with the most likely. The live-in father is the most deadly parent, and the most likely to do family annihilation. The most likely is CW killed SW. The most likely is CW also killed the kids, and he is also the most likely to have disposed of them all. He has motive as well.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

To me the tiny detail of him telling his friends a day after his entire family goes missing that he was going to sell the house tells it all.

This is a man that had a plan. He had a plan to eliminate his family and a plan for his life once they were out of it.

I don't think there was any rage or any arguments. I think he carried out his plan and was feeling pretty proud of himself until he got caught.

Moo

 

[Hazelnutty]

I'm waiting for more Affair Persons (APs) to come forward. To me CW appears to be a conniving individual . He & Shannan had been married for just 6 years, but that's plenty of time to have more than one AP.

Shannan appears to be no nonsense & I feel she would not put up with CWs philandering , not even for a second. But, she would not kill her two children because of anything he said or did to her.

Shannan was sparkling sunshine, beauty and joy. CW is mud , dirt, poop, pond scum, and crude oil.

Innocent people do not do such horrible things to loved ones bodies, like he did.

And to think that he put them in that tank to keep them warm or close to him is ludicrous. He put them there, out in the middle of nowhere to dispose of them where they would never be found.

All above is MOO



*someone upstream mentioned CW putting children in tanks for reasons of warmth & keeping them close . I could not disagree more.

 

[CFlo]

easily if you look at her FB she has pics with a certain guy friend and if one clicks his FB he has photos that make them look more like a couple than CW had of his own wife

really do not want to post pic but could easily grab a recent screen shot of SW with CM together, a picture is a thousand words

Unless that’s already been discounted because he doesn’t prefer the opposite gender and CW had been on some of the trips with them.
I posted on this prior as well. Given he is outwardly not interested in the opposite sex, it’s non relevant. In fact, there are two of such gentleman.

 

[CARIIS]

We don't know he killed them. We know he killed her and the unborn baby.

and found someone , apparently, he enjoyed being with

 

[SuperTmo]

No that kind of man is the kind who wails and screams like women at a Bangladesh funeral, demands that he be put out of his misery, needs to be hospitalized and never, ever tries to hide what happened.

This reminds me of a case I had referred to my office when I worked for an organ / eye / tissue bank organization. We had a little boy age 4 die when his dad dropped one of those big boxy (like what we had before flat screens) TVs on his son’s head. He had been trying to move this large heavy thing on his own and couldn’t see the son had gotten in his path, and when he stumbled over his son, he dropped the tv and it killed him instantly.

This dad was distraught. The police responded to the scene along with the EMT’s and the dad was screaming and begging them to kill him. He couldn’t live with the knowledge that he accidentally killed his son. When a cop came up to console him the dad grabbed the cop’s gun and was waving it around and just out of his mind with grief. Before he could shoot himself (or get shot!) another officer ran right up in front of him and bear hugged him. Another was able to take the gun and then they all just surrounded him. He didn’t want to hurt them, he just wanted to be put out of his suffering.

I talked to the dad later that day because he wanted to donate his son’s heart valves and he just kept saying he didn’t deserve to live and that it hurt so much to breathe knowing his son wasn’t. I almost quit my job that day. It was so so sad.

Shanann’s dad weeping in court reminded me of this dad.