GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #62

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I don’t know. I’d like to see proof, and I don’t understand why it isn’t provided. It would look much worse for SW if they did.

How would it look worse for Shanann? And why would she type names in if she had no intention of continuing on to the links?

 

[BeckyF]

These stupid criminals keep thinking they are smarter than everyone yet they make such idiotic mistakes. Don't theses people ever watch Dateline? MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Yes! I have been wanting to mention that. I also think it interesting SW texted her friends and told them the baby was a boy and his name was going to be Niko Lee but said do not tell anyone or post it on social media because CW wants to do it Monday. There has been a lot of speculation about the name Niko Lee being CW's choice because of NK's name. I think this was a sick joke on SW in his mind-- He thought no one would ever be told that baby name. He could laugh at SW's expense for agreeing to name the baby after his mistress and no one would ever know! It's sheer evil. CW didn't think SW would tell her friends. But she did because she really wasn't trusting CW's actions and wanted to celebrate a happy moment. She may have been doubting the Monday gender reveal would happen due to the erratic way CW had been acting and figured no sense in keeping the name a secret.

But SW was Italian on mom's side? And Nico is an Italian version of the name. Lee? Didn't someone in Shanann's family have Lee as the second name?

 

[Seattle1]

She was controlling his diet, telling him where he should live, trying to find him an apartment and was telling him how he should parent his daughters.

She was also over at the marital home at least twice - once walking right through the front door, not sneaking through the back door. That takes some chuzpah, IMO. It stands to reason to me that she would also be carefully monitoring both of their facebook pages and any other social media that she could.

Did LE check her work computer? Maybe she was investing a lot of time at work monitoring social media, doing google searches, etc. That might also help explain the loss of the contract that resulted in her rather immediate termination - being preoccupied and lack of performance. People who live in la la land tend to perform poorly at work and they also make lots of mistakes.

All JMO.

I believe the only confirmation was that Anadrako found questionable emails between NK and CW that was exchanged on their network. A valid reason for Anadarko to request NK replaced on their contract with NK's former employer.

 

[k-mac]

I don’t know. I’d like to see proof, and I don’t understand why it isn’t provided. It would look much worse for SW if they did.

I cant see what proof you need ?
she clearly looked up SW facebook.
that is the proof ??
why is so hard to comprehend that a woman engaged in an affair is sussin out the competition?
its a pretty normal thing to do.
I don't find it creepy or insulting to NW that she was.
id probably do it everyday
curiosity is normal and not a bad thing.

the NK defenders wanna keep her SW stalking to a no go so it keeps the illusion alive that she didn't know about the baby.

she absolutely knew about the baby.
she was very upset about that baby. rightly so from her perspective.

that's why CW shut down his facey. she admittedly instructed him to and exactly how to the detectives.
why would she need to do that otherwise?
sometimes you have to join the dots.

her google searches do not affend me they are normal in 'her life' the lying about it all is the issue.
moo

 

[Layla123]

I’m in the US and I’d never call someone a mistress if they were having a relationship with a person who was separated. I’m talking about an actual separation where both spouses agree, live separately & are headed to divorce. Divorces can take a long time depending on many factors.

Based on personal experiences, I’d hesitate to start a relationship with someone who is separated, even recently divorced, because it’s a crazy, unstable time and there can be a lot of drama. But, each situation is different.

The part that makes me cut NK a little slack here, is the fact that SW was in NC for the first six weeks of CW & NK’s affair. CW was free as a bird to spend as much time as he wanted withNK, any time of the day. I think I read they were together 4-5 days a week. Because of that I can understand why NK may have believed the marriage was over. Married men don’t have that much free time on their hands. Then the last week before the murders, SW came home. I can see where it might be true that NK told CW to hang out with his kids during that last week. I think it’s very possible that NK didn’t know how married CW really was until all the news came out after SW and the kids disappeared. I don’t want anyone getting mad at me, I don’t know for sure, I just think it’s very possible because I think CW is such an accomplished liar, and he fooled everyone else in his life.

 

[molly1255]

I believe the only confirmation was that Anadrako found questionable emails between NK and CW that was exchanged on their network. A valid reason for Anadarko to request NK replaced on their contract with NK's former employer.

You are right. I also believe that Anadarko identified NK as a possible AP before NK ever talked to the police, IIRC.

 

[Layla123]

I think the ones that were recoverable were quoted but the others not. Looks like she also conducted specific Facebook searches on other occasions that were separate from the google searches? But I'm not totally sure.

I really want to be sure! Maybe more will come out.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

But SW was Italian on mom's side? And Nico is an Italian version of the name. Lee? Didn't someone in Shanann's family have Lee as the second name?

I believe CW and RW had middle name Lee

 

[LAHOLLA]

What about the razorblades that were allegedly laying around?? That seems pretty sadistic and intentional. Cindy hated SW and used the kids as a tool to hurt SW even if it meant costing her grandkids a trip to the ER or worse.

It seems Cindy enjoyed playing mind games with SW and the girls. She enjoyed getting a rise of out SW and then played innocent. "See... I'm not the crazy one, Shanann is! She's overreacting again!"
I have no doubt, Cindy would hate any partner CW chose to be with. No one is good enough for precious CW as Mother Watts is.

Would LOVE to know what the Watts fam thinks of NK after what has come out so far.

 

[The Farm]

But SW was Italian on mom's side? And Nico is an Italian version of the name. Lee? Didn't someone in Shanann's family have Lee as the second name?

CW's middle name is Lee.

 

[Charlot123]

She was controlling his diet, telling him where he should live, trying to find him an apartment and was telling him how he should parent his daughters.

She was also over at the marital home at least twice - once walking right through the front door, not sneaking through the back door. That takes some chuzpah, IMO. It stands to reason to me that she would also be carefully monitoring both of their facebook pages and any other social media that she could.

Did LE check her work computer? Maybe she was investing a lot of time at work monitoring social media, doing google searches, etc. That might also help explain the loss of the contract that resulted in her rather immediate termination - being preoccupied and lack of performance. People who live in la la land tend to perform poorly at work and they also make lots of mistakes.

All JMO.

Her loss of contract had to do with bad publicity for her company. It is a big company providing jobs for 4400 people. Enough to respect them as the job provider.

And now... it was enough that they had to deal with the consequences of CW's actions. Two bodies in oil tanks, a pregnant woman in a grave, all on their territory. Their lunatic employee doing it. And on top of all, out of love for their contracted employee. Her job performance was the last thing on their minds. I don't know how they responded, probably, at first were shocked, as everyone else.

 

[MassGuy]

I believe CW and RW had middle name Lee

Correct. Both Ronnie and CW have the middle name “Lee.”

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Oh no. For me it has nothing to do with rubbing it in. It has to do with hypocrisy and cruelty.

Because in every case there are varying opinions and sometimes surprising conclusions. Some are right about what happened right off the bat and others aren't. For example, I was stunned that Katlynn Cargill had been involved in drugs. When posters suggested that I was defensive for her.

I was also super shocked that Jessica Ridgeway's killer was a teenager. Some astute posters had that sense early on and that seemed impossible to me.

No, I understand that we all aren't going to be accurate in our first impressions and probably the majority of the time I too need more to form a strong opinion.

In fact, this was actually one of the few cases where it was certain to me very early on.

It was also the first case where I saw such intense victim bashing and support of victim bashing via tons of "likes", under the guise of being "open minded" or on the fence (which mostly seemed to consist of only supporting arguments about how evil or bad or unstable Shanann was. Isn't on the fence supposed to be about both sides of a case and not just one?).

This case was obvious, IMO. There was an incredible amount of facts. But most important, logic had to be thrown out the window, including (but not at all limited to) things like you noted today- how a guilty person and how an innocent person respond, essentially. And how parents who are bonded and love their kids react when those kids are missing or have been killed.

More important, it became quite clear as time went on, since there was no logical alternative, IMO, as to how this man could possibly be innocent, that fence sitting and open-mindedness was actually primarily fueled by petty, mean girl gossip, cruel and baseless innuendo and the nasty whisperings of one who clearly loathed Shanann and had every reason to make things up or view things from a dysfunctional, distorted perspective.

That was unique about this case and it was utterly destructive to the family who knew about it and suffered. That upsets me.

To ignore all facts and logic as not enough but give massive, and what I think was incredibly undue consideration to nasty gossip and ridiculous judgment of an average mother, was born of pettiness and hate, IMO and so it's hard to swallow when we now see posts about, "yeah, can you believe this guy?"

No. That was the whole point. And why it was so wrong, I feel, to embrace that bashing of poor Shanann since there was nothing logical to point to her. Nothing at all except ugliness.

I can't imagine how that destroyed her family.

I don't feel I'm rubbing anything in. I feel like I'm standing up for not embracing the irrational, petty, and misogynistic bashing of victims. I hope I never see that again in the world. I mean I know we will to some degree but hopefully at least not at the level we saw in this case.

Finally, now that we have "all the facts", what is really so new? It seems like we had almost all of the facts. Not as fleshed out but we knew most of what had gone on. And what had not (like sadness, grief, concern or worry for his missing and then dead babies). As someone said, there was no real smoking gun. It's just a cumulation of circumstantial evidence that was already there.

The only thing that truly changed that was significant was the guilty plea.

In fact, right before it, some seemed to be so confident that he wasn't guilty that they fully expected a plea to lesser charges. Based on nothing at all but what I've described above.

So if in the future a guilty plea is what's needed despite a mountain of evidence, in order to conclude that there's really no reasonable doubt, because some feel drawn to blaming a victim, we are in trouble in this country when it comes to our justice system.

Because what else truly changed to slide people off their purported fences (which seemed more like heavily weighted teeter totters), besides the guilty plea?

I can only speak for myself, but I will say this thread has taught me what to say and what to like on future threads. LOL

 

[molly1255]

I cant see what proof you need ?
she clearly looked up SW facebook.
that is the proof ??
why is so hard to comprehend that a woman engaged in an affair is sussin out the competition?
its a pretty normal thing to do.
I don't find it creepy or insulting to NW that she was.
id probably do it everyday
curiosity is normal and not a bad thing.

the NK defenders wanna keep her SW stalking to a no go so it keeps the illusion alive that she didn't know about the baby.

she absolutely knew about the baby.
she was very upset about that baby. rightly so from her perspective.

that's why CW shut down his facey. she admittedly instructed him to and exactly how to the detectives.
why would she need to do that otherwise?
sometimes you have to join the dots.

her google searches do not affend me they are normal in 'her life' the lying about it all is the issue.
moo

I agree. If she thought their relationship was kosher, she wouldn't have felt the need to keep it a secret. In her police interview she even stated she didn't tell people because CW was with two women. So she knew, and I'm certain she also knew about the baby.

You don 't have to scroll very far down on SW's public facebook page to see that she was pregnant.

 

[NuttMegg]

She was controlling his diet, telling him where he should live, trying to find him an apartment and was telling him how he should parent his daughters.

She was also over at the marital home at least twice - once walking right through the front door, not sneaking through the back door. That takes some chuzpah, IMO. It stands to reason to me that she would also be carefully monitoring both of their facebook pages and any other social media that she could.

Did LE check her work computer? Maybe she was investing a lot of time at work monitoring social media, doing google searches, etc. That might also help explain the loss of the contract that resulted in her rather immediate termination - being preoccupied and lack of performance. People who live in la la land tend to perform poorly at work and they also make lots of mistakes.

All JMO.

She even went upstairs and looked around the loft. But of course did not enter the bedrooms, she says. And, she felt so bad going over to the house.

 

[kiwilaura]

She even went upstairs and looked around the loft. But of course did not enter the bedrooms, she says. And, she felt so bad going over to the house.

She even thought it was so lovely that they had books. Whatever.

 

[NuttMegg]

The part that makes me cut NK a little slack here, is the fact that SW was in NC for the first six weeks of CW & NK’s affair. CW was free as a bird to spend as much time as he wanted withNK, any time of the day. I think I read they were together 4-5 days a week. Because of that I can understand why NK may have believed the marriage was over. Married men don’t have that much free time on their hands. Then the last week before the murders, SW came home. I can see where it might be true that NK told CW to hang out with his kids during that last week. I think it’s very possible that NK didn’t know how married CW really was until all the news came out after SW and the kids disappeared. I don’t want anyone getting mad at me, I don’t know for sure, I just think it’s very possible because I think CW is such an accomplished liar, and he fooled everyone else in his life.

Actually she (SW) was there for 5 weeks and then CW visited for a week. NK said she had advised CW to try to save the relationship during that time, yet NK sent racy pics to him to help him save his marriage.

 

[Layla123]

I cant see what proof you need ?
she clearly looked up SW facebook.
that is the proof ??
why is so hard to comprehend that a woman engaged in an affair is sussin out the competition?
its a pretty normal thing to do.
I don't find it creepy or insulting to NW that she was.
id probably do it everyday
curiosity is normal and not a bad thing.

the NK defenders wanna keep her SW stalking to a no go so it keeps the illusion alive that she didn't know about the baby.

she absolutely knew about the baby.
she was very upset about that baby. rightly so from her perspective.

that's why CW shut down his facey. she admittedly instructed him to and exactly how to the detectives.
why would she need to do that otherwise?
sometimes you have to join the dots.

her google searches do not affend me they are normal in 'her life' the lying about it all is the issue.
moo

She clearly did a google search for Facebook, but it doesn’t say where she went beyond that. I don’t want to protect NK, I don’t know her, I don’t care, I just want to move beyond reasonable doubt, my mind has reasonable doubt. I don’t want to assume anything. I can’t say that everything you say with such certainty is true. I’m trying.

 

[katie565]

I think he married SW because he was not married, lived with his parents, and had no GF. And she was pretty, vivacious and independent.

I think independent is a better word than strong. Both SW and NK were pretty much able to live alone. CW never lived alone. There were his parents and SW. And he hoped for a life with NK.

Actually, I think, had he lived alone for a while, he'd stop being afraid of loneliness. Maybe even cherish it. There was too much noise around him, both SW and NK seemed to have been noisy, each in own way. His mom comes across as pretty loud.

He actually did live alone. Never went back home after he went to NASCAR school. I remember seeing an old roommate say he kept to himself, studied hard and didn’t party with them or date.