GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

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Just wanted to add there was also a white over the counter bottle in the bin. Prescriptions intended for consumers are never in those white bottles sent from the drug companies to the pharmacies. Prescriptions for consumers here in the US are in clear orange prescriptions bottles with labels.
So zero evidence there was Oxy in that bin.

RBBM -

This has not been my experience. I have had prescriptions from Walgreen's provided in the white manufacturer bottles. It seems to happen when the quantity I need matches the quantity in the manufacturer bottle.
 
RBBM -

This has not been my experience. I have had prescriptions from Walgreen's provided in the white manufacturer bottles. It seems to happen when the quantity I need matches the quantity in the manufacturer bottle.
CW's deleted google search was for Oxycodon 80mg, discovery page 1768 & 1769. Since it was deleted, the time and date stamps were unavailable.

The 80 mg manufacturer's bottles contain 100 tablets. The main drug company's bottles are square, not round like the one in the basement bin picture. Also I imagine when a pharmacy uses the manufacturer's bottle, they would still their put own label on it. And the one in the bin pic doesn't have a prescription label around it, as far as I can tell.
 
In the beginning of this , I was questioning about his history of lying and promptly I was attacked by posters.

After the horrifying revelations of what happened, I really did not follow very faithfully especially after all of the strange groups that were posting on the net saying proof of one thing or another.

I have consequently never read anything about his growing up except that he was quiet and mother was pushy. Dad became an addict.

Is there more info on his early years somewhere? I don’t see anything that shows why he would become a pretend person.

Pushy mothers who think their children can do no wrong are plentiful. Is that enough to create a fake person?

Surely there must be more.

No, and you're right, there's more to it. She's more than "pushy". She's a cruel narcissist who punished him by not going to his wedding and getting other family members to follow. She tormented little Cici with the ice cream incident. She trash talked Shannan to CW's best friend and, probably, to anyone who would allow it.

While he has narcissistic traits, he's obviously a psychopath, as well. Research on personality disordered individuals indicates that both nature (genetics) and nurture (family dynamics) combine to create these conditions. Also, head injuries have been shown to have a correlation with killers but I don't think that's a factor here or, at least, it hasn't come up as far as I recall.
 
No, and you're right, there's more to it. She's more than "pushy". She's a cruel narcissist who punished him by not going to his wedding and getting other family members to follow. She tormented little Cici with the ice cream incident. She trash talked Shannan to CW's best friend and, probably, to anyone who would allow it.

While he has narcissistic traits, he's obviously a psychopath, as well. Research on personality disordered individuals indicates that both nature (genetics) and nurture (family dynamics) combine to create these conditions. Also, head injuries have been shown to have a correlation with killers but I don't think that's a factor here or, at least, it hasn't come up as far as I recall.

It does not seem extreme enough to me to have created that. I wonder if there was lack of holding him as an infant. Or maybe separation from mother as an infant. Something where he turned off as an infant.

He is totally hollow.

I read about Christian Longo on here. He did all sorts of things before he killed his family.

It is hard to believe that CW had zero signs.

I think Scott Peterson did stuff before he killed Laci.

CW was not that young.

There has to be more to it.
 
He said he had to put the girls in the tank so they would not get up the second time. So he is saying that the oil thing was in the spur of the moment, at least not been thought of until they got up after being smothered. Who believe this?
 
Respectfully I actually disagree with a lot of what you've said here. I do agree he was symbolically killing his mother. I said early on I felt she annihilated his identity and due to the deep enmeshment of his family of origin, he didn't see his kids and wife as separate from himself (which, having an apparently narcissistic mother, means her) so he annihilated his family (and thereby annhilated his non-existent self and his mother).

But I very much disagree with most of the balance. Shanann could not have prevented the murder. There was no working on the marriage or herself as a means to prevent that psychopath from killing her and her girls.

His "mousiness" was not within her control. And if he was unhappy it was up to him to speak up, not up to her to know something was wrong and change herself.

I see nothing much wrong with Shanann. Of course not perfect but she didn't seem controlling to me. She had a strong personality and filled the void his annihilated soul created. Which is why he picked her. He had no identity so he liked women who had strong ones.

But no one could ever really make up for what he lacked.

Regardless, he didn't exhibit psychopathic behaviors, IMO. In fact that was discussed on here by one of our psych experts.

He exhibited nothing much until he annihilated his family.

But Shanann very much knew their marriage was in trouble. She discussed that a lot in text messages and other correspondence.

So? That couldn't have saved her and her kids' lives because no one can keep a marriage at a fever pitch at all times and someone like CW with an annihilated soul likely went through life feeling a lot of nothingness. So he would be prone to equating the heady excitement of a new sexual relationship with love and life. It would've obsessed him. Because it caused him to feel something. Something strong admidst years of gray blandness.

His marriage could've been perfect and never could have competed with that because no marriage can ever sustain that level of excitement. So he was obsessed.

And then, NK wanted a man who didn't have kids or baggage.

So even if Shanann had left him, he was still going to kill his wife and kids, IMO. Because NK was pressuring him not to have a family, as inexplicable as that is.

I believe it would have been impossible for Shanann to realize the danger he posed or signs that something that dark was within him, because the very thing about these types of family annihilators that is so insanely shocking to everyone is that: There. Are. No. Signs.

There are millions of quiet, unhappy men who let their wives run their lives, who sit in the shadows and don't express themselves and pretty much none of them do what CW did.

Most family annihilators in general have a history of mental illness or criminal records/domestic abuse histories. What sets apart a man like CW is there are no signs. There's nothing that could remotely have warned anyone who knew him, including his wife, that there was something that dangerous within him.

They're masters of the mask.

I believe this line of thinking (that had she just been more sensitive and self-reflective she would possibly be alive) comes from fear. She wasn't sensitive and self-reflective. She wasn't a good wife. So she got killed. But I'm sensitive and self-reflective.
I'm a good wife. So this won't happen to me.

Meh. I believe this can happen to anyone. It's rare but when it occurs it comes out of the blue and cannot typically be predicted nor stopped. Maybe a random sixth sense might help someone now and then but the inexplicable doesn't lend itself to protective measures.

The value of learning about these people is about solving crime. Based on studies this is too complex and the signs are too vague and too common to help prevent a family from being annihilated by this particular kind of family annihilator.
yep!
I still struggle to see the if only shanann did this or only shanann was like that.....maybe ......??

there is one enormous paradox that occurred almost simultaneously.

shanann very selflessly agreed to baby number 3.
this is what HE wanted. not her.
the generosity I see in this womans love for this man.....enormous and unconditional.

at precisely the same time CW impregnates his wife at his free will......his universe collides with NKs.
from that moment shanann was a passenger in her own life.

:(
 
He said he had to put the girls in the tank so they would not get up the second time. So he is saying that the oil thing was in the spur of the moment, at least not been thought of until they got up after being smothered. Who believe this?
I don't think so.
how convenient of all the barron fields anywhere and everywhere ( if burial was the disposal idea) he just so happened to have two giant oil tanks right there....jeez! how about that!

imo they were all going in the tanks.....but he struggled to fit the girls and knew not a chance of fitting shannan and nico so he rushed,buried them in the ground.

he likely is aware that the greater public is horrified at him throwing those precious girls in filthy black oil to rot alone in the dark hidden forever. not even together. the cruel .

so to your question, I reckon that is an add on public save face. he knows how it 'looks'.
AND THAT BOTHERS HIM:mad::mad:

moo
 
I don't think so.
how convenient of all the barron fields anywhere and everywhere ( if burial was the disposal idea) he just so happened to have two giant oil tanks right there....jeez! how about that!

imo they were all going in the tanks.....but he struggled to fit the girls and knew not a chance of fitting shannan and nico so he rushed,buried them in the ground.

he likely is aware that the greater public is horrified at him throwing those precious girls in filthy black oil to rot alone in the dark hidden forever. not even together. the cruel ***.

so to your question, I reckon that is an add on public save face. he knows how it 'looks'.
AND THAT BOTHERS HIM:mad::mad:

moo

Yeah i agree. I think he knew before too that he was going to put them in there. I feel it is so weird him trying to save face though.
 
Saying he tried to kill them twice? That is saving face? Driving for an hour with his babies in the car and shoving them into tanks is saving face?
 
No, and you're right, there's more to it. She's more than "pushy". She's a cruel narcissist who punished him by not going to his wedding and getting other family members to follow. She tormented little Cici with the ice cream incident. She trash talked Shannan to CW's best friend and, probably, to anyone who would allow it.

While he has narcissistic traits, he's obviously a psychopath, as well. Research on personality disordered individuals indicates that both nature (genetics) and nurture (family dynamics) combine to create these conditions. Also, head injuries have been shown to have a correlation with killers but I don't think that's a factor here or, at least, it hasn't come up as far as I recall.

And yet he didn't display the crucial signs of being a psychopath according to one of our verified mental health professionals on here: impulsive and antisocial behavior (criminal conduct) and risk taking behaviors.
 
It does not seem extreme enough to me to have created that. I wonder if there was lack of holding him as an infant. Or maybe separation from mother as an infant. Something where he turned off as an infant.

He is totally hollow.

I read about Christian Longo on here. He did all sorts of things before he killed his family.

It is hard to believe that CW had zero signs.

I think Scott Peterson did stuff before he killed Laci.

CW was not that young.

There has to be more to it.

And yet there's typically no signs with these types of annihilators. Which again, is why they're so horrific and shocking.

Also, I've read every book about SP and followed his trial. Nothing came out about any signs or prior acts. He was a perfectly annihilated little soldier.
 
He said he had to put the girls in the tank so they would not get up the second time. So he is saying that the oil thing was in the spur of the moment, at least not been thought of until they got up after being smothered. Who believe this?

I don't. He called his co workers in advance to get them not to go to the site early. Said he would be there. He planned this and the location for disposal.
 
I don't. He called his co workers in advance to get them not to go to the site early. Said he would be there. He planned this and the location for disposal.
I think it's clear that he ran out of time with the disposal of Shan'ann's body. I wonder what his original plan had been. It may have been a very long time before the bodies in the tanks were found,he had that angle covered except for maybe the hair on the rim of the thief hatch and the vomit on the stairs (IIRC). He knew beforehand that she wouldn't fit.
 
He was doomed as soon as he decided to kill them. Since all his moves were somewhat monitored (truck gps/neighborhood cameras/etc) anywhere he took the bodies was going to be discovered eventually IMO. He could not even go off route in his vehicle with arousing suspicion.
 
Not entirely - he dances around everything and uses word salad throughout most of it....I think a lot of that was the benefit of catching him off guard. The letters would be a conscious unmasking. Which is almost impossible for them to do.

But he already has in the second interview in prison.
 
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