Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34, dec.), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #3

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JMO
I also couldnt quite understand why he killed the kids too until I realized that if they witnessed a big huge fight where he killed the wife first then he probably felt he had to kill them too or he would be busted.


Those girls, according to his attorney in her 1st filing re; DNA, had been in the petroleum tank for several days. He may have killed them right after she left for Arizona. Right after they were seen at a birthday party. My guess is that every part of his life played a part in his plan to kill them.
I also believe the pregnancy might have been his final straw. Child support post divorce would have been extremely expensive.

I messed up posting. Between content.
 
Just curious but why would the side effects cause Anxiety or Irregular Heart Rate? Is there some sort of natural type of amphetamines in the ingredients?

ETA: Is the “Thrive” patch the same thing as “Burn” that I heard SW and her friends mentioning in her videos regarding weight loss?
These type products often have lots of caffeine and/or amphetamine type things in them. this can affect heart rythym
and cause anxiety, etc. Side effect can be extra over the top energy levels and subsequent weight loss. Scarey stuff.
 
more on covert :

The closet narcissist relies on an idealised partner to feel good enough. The partner can be the attractive younger woman or the wealthy business man, whom they admire for their attributes. The partner is often attractive, wealthy, smart or an empath, with all of the supplies that are required so that they do not have to face their empty self. The possessive, controlling and insecure behaviour of the closet narcissist is an attempt to keep their partner fused with them, so that they can feel special in relation to them. Any breaks in the fusion disrupt this feeling, whereby they are left with the emptiness of their real impaired self. They want their partner to be at one with them, on the same page.

If the partner forms their own separate opinion, does not appear perfect or wants to separate from them, than this bond is broken. The narcissist feels lost, like a part of them is missing when the other is not on the same page as them, causing them to attempt to re-fuse with the partner, by being persuasive or pressuring them to agree with them.

This can be controlling them, so they do not leave, convincing them on how to behave or even going as far as buying their love in order to have ownership of them. Some will even meet their partners expectations, to keep them where they want them. The idealised partner is a prize or possession that they control, who is a source of need fulfilment.

avoid being in the spot light, hiding in the shadow of an idealised partner by preferring to bask in glow of them, to cover up feelings of inadequacy.

neighbor describing his as shy stuck out

void exposing themselves in case others see them as not perfect, covering up to avoid feeling a fraud for not being perfect.

our marriage is awesome- in reality ,this far, the only internet stuff we have from him is about failed marriage - always smiling in every pic

They will tell you what you want to hear, instead of what they actually think,

who really knows regarding the next baby reaction

Can appear shy, polite,

  • Because they cannot sustain the real connection of an intimate relationship the relationship falls apart and feels empty and void of connection.
see his presentation!

not accepting their partners thoughts or feelings, not listening to how they can feel trapped in the relationship because they cannot be themselves.

back to presentation

Unlike the grandiose narcissist who can discard their partner, the closet narcissist cannot let go of them, holding onto them

feel empty or inadequate, so they try to re-fuse to stay in a relationship

situations can escalate into domestic violence, anger, jealously, insecurity, mistrust, stalking or paranoia when their partner moves away from the relationship, in order to obtain their own self. The possible break in fusion is so threatening that the narcissist cannot cope without fusing with an idealised partner who can make them feel grandiose.

When the partner stands up for themselves or attempts to leave the relationship, the narcissist falls apart or reacts with narcissistic rage,


When the narcissist feels hurt, they can hit back to discharge their pain that they are feeling. When their wife leaves them for another man or wants custody of the children, the narcissist suffers deep pain of a deflating self, and often resorts to revenge to get back at them. Many narcissists’ will be spiteful by taking their partner for everything they’ve got and destroying their life completely.

How to detect a covert narcissist - signs to identify narcissists
 
more on covert :

The closet narcissist relies on an idealised partner to feel good enough. The partner can be the attractive younger woman or the wealthy business man, whom they admire for their attributes. The partner is often attractive, wealthy, smart or an empath, with all of the supplies that are required so that they do not have to face their empty self. The possessive, controlling and insecure behaviour of the closet narcissist is an attempt to keep their partner fused with them, so that they can feel special in relation to them. Any breaks in the fusion disrupt this feeling, whereby they are left with the emptiness of their real impaired self. They want their partner to be at one with them, on the same page.

If the partner forms their own separate opinion, does not appear perfect or wants to separate from them, than this bond is broken. The narcissist feels lost, like a part of them is missing when the other is not on the same page as them, causing them to attempt to re-fuse with the partner, by being persuasive or pressuring them to agree with them.

This can be controlling them, so they do not leave, convincing them on how to behave or even going as far as buying their love in order to have ownership of them. Some will even meet their partners expectations, to keep them where they want them. The idealised partner is a prize or possession that they control, who is a source of need fulfilment.

avoid being in the spot light, hiding in the shadow of an idealised partner by preferring to bask in glow of them, to cover up feelings of inadequacy.

neighbor describing his as shy stuck out

void exposing themselves in case others see them as not perfect, covering up to avoid feeling a fraud for not being perfect.

our marriage is awesome- in reality ,this far, the only internet stuff we have from him is about failed marriage - always smiling in every pic

They will tell you what you want to hear, instead of what they actually think,

who really knows regarding the next baby reaction

Can appear shy, polite,

  • Because they cannot sustain the real connection of an intimate relationship the relationship falls apart and feels empty and void of connection.
see his presentation!

not accepting their partners thoughts or feelings, not listening to how they can feel trapped in the relationship because they cannot be themselves.

back to presentation

Unlike the grandiose narcissist who can discard their partner, the closet narcissist cannot let go of them, holding onto them

feel empty or inadequate, so they try to re-fuse to stay in a relationship

situations can escalate into domestic violence, anger, jealously, insecurity, mistrust, stalking or paranoia when their partner moves away from the relationship, in order to obtain their own self. The possible break in fusion is so threatening that the narcissist cannot cope without fusing with an idealised partner who can make them feel grandiose.

When the partner stands up for themselves or attempts to leave the relationship, the narcissist falls apart or reacts with narcissistic rage,


When the narcissist feels hurt, they can hit back to discharge their pain that they are feeling. When their wife leaves them for another man or wants custody of the children, the narcissist suffers deep pain of a deflating self, and often resorts to revenge to get back at them. Many narcissists’ will be spiteful by taking their partner for everything they’ve got and destroying their life completely.

How to detect a covert narcissist - signs to identify narcissists
WOW- this sounds like CW to a tee. thanks!
 
Hello All,

I was reading the post in the thread back about reasons why men kill their family, and then someone mentioned a video saying the new baby was probably planned due to the Facebook video. I have had medical issues that make pregnancy risky, however I have delivered four healthy babies. But it got me thinking- maybe the baby wasn’t planned, he was having an affair or even in the “pre-mindset” to, and because she was taking the THRIVE, which due to the ingredients I imagine can cause issues with fetal development, there was talk about the risk of carrying the pregnancy. So, that could be why she said that he made her “brave enough” to have a 3rd child. Maybe she was scared that something could be wrong. Maybe he just didn’t want any part of it and was wanting to leave anyway, then the thought of another child made him snap.
 
It’s dependant on size of the tank. I’ve seen them 100,000 gals up. Those tanks do not empty fast. In fact the first pump is done by gravity. It’s also dangerous to stay anywhere near due to fumes around the hatch:access. And I don’t recall if he put them in a crude tank or a gasoline tank which might provide fuel for company vehicles.

The oil storage tanks can be huge. My kids both painted them on summer break from school. Great little job, but they are extremely big.

The articles are saying a crude oil tank. When I was in the area I saw both small and big tanks. They are everywhere and people can see them right out of their home windows, many were very very close to housing. I remember thinking that I would not want to look at that all day especially with the prices of those homes and all on top of each other yet. Now I know nothing about pump jacks or tanks but I can not imagine CW carrying his daughters bodies up those ladders and putting them in the tanks. I would think the only way would be through the top of them but then again not sure.
Correct me if I am wrong but they have not said where exactly the site was? Some are desolate with no one around to see a thing.
 
These type products often have lots of caffeine and/or amphetamine type things in them. this can affect heart rythym
and cause anxiety, etc. Side effect can be extra over the top energy levels and subsequent weight loss. Scarey stuff.
Thanks! I was just reading up on these patches and it appears as though they’re like having a constant Red Bull running through your veins. Scary! This article says that thousands of ER visits and hospitalizations each year are attributed to these supplements.
Dietary supplements lead to thousands of hospitalizations each year, study finds
 
Finally caught up. Hard to do when there are so many great posts.

Someone help me understand this...

The court document cited Richard Eikelenboom, a forensic expert, who said any evidence of strangulation should be present on the necks of the girls, “in spite of the fact that the remains were in oil for four days.” Eikelenboom further recommended obtaining DNA samples from Shanann Watts’ hands and nails. “After samples are taken the nails should be cut preserved,” Eikelenboom was quoted in the document. “I have a lot experience taking samples from dead bodies getting good results after strangulation. The hands of the children should be sample as well.
Colorado dad's lawyer seeks DNA samples from daughters' bodies, but judge rejects forensics expert: report

What would the defense want this information for? Are they going to try to spin some tale that SW actually is the one who strangled the children? This is confusing to me.
 
Thanks! I was just reading up on these patches and it appears as though they’re like having a constant Red Bull running through your veins. Scary! This article says that thousands of ER visits and hospitalizations each year are attributed to the Thrive supplements.
Dietary supplements lead to thousands of hospitalizations each year, study finds

I was thinking about this also, I know when you are up in age as I am the doctors tell you to stay away from all these new diet loss energy things.
So how was that safe for a pregnant woman?
 
It's a bit late for this insight, but when he did one of the early interviews and said he came home and there was "nothing there", he gave himself away. His wife's purse, phone and car keys were there, her car was still there, and the kids' medicine was still there. Presumably all their clothing and suitcases were all there too. If my husband had come home and found the house in that state, he'd assume I was over at the neighbours or down the street at the park with the kids.
If he was worried about her, the essential items would have made him frantic - her keys are here and so is her purse! Where is she?? There is no way anyone would describe that scene as "nothing there." The items that are there are highly significant.

My guess is that he was dependent on her for his identity and status, and he killed her and the girls rather than be abandoned by them... he knew she was going to leave him and a band-aid baby wouldn't make her stay.
 
The defense is going to try to claim Shannann did it.

CW can just keep trying to hurt her and her family and not allow her any defense even after killing her
Hard to say she did it when he was seen at birthday party with kids before she ever got home. I don't think anyone would buy she got dropped off at home at 2am and proceeded to go strangle her kids in their beds. I don't think this will be the defense because there is no real even slightly believable story there.
 
It's a bit late for this insight, but when he did one of the early interviews and said he came home and there was "nothing there", he gave himself away. His wife's purse, phone and car keys were there, her car was still there, and the kids' medicine was still there. Presumably all their clothing and suitcases were all there too. If my husband had come home and found the house in that state, he'd assume I was over at the neighbours or down the street at the park with the kids.
If he was worried about her, the essential items would have made him frantic - her keys are here and so is her purse! Where is she?? There is no way anyone would describe that scene as "nothing there." The items that are there are highly significant.

My guess is that he was dependent on her for his identity and status, and he killed her and the girls rather than be abandoned by them... he knew she was going to leave him and a band-aid baby wouldn't make her stay.

He'd probably been rehearsing "there was nothing there" for days, not counting on Nicole messing up his plan to get rid of all of that stuff before she was found to be missing.
 
It's a bit late for this insight, but when he did one of the early interviews and said he came home and there was "nothing there", he gave himself away. His wife's purse, phone and car keys were there, her car was still there, and the kids' medicine was still there. Presumably all their clothing and suitcases were all there too. If my husband had come home and found the house in that state, he'd assume I was over at the neighbours or down the street at the park with the kids.
If he was worried about her, the essential items would have made him frantic - her keys are here and so is her purse! Where is she?? There is no way anyone would describe that scene as "nothing there." The items that are there are highly significant.

My guess is that he was dependent on her for his identity and status, and he killed her and the girls rather than be abandoned by them... he knew she was going to leave him and a band-aid baby wouldn't make her stay.
Deadly Dads: Some of the Shocking Reasons Fathers Kill Their Own Children | The Forensic Outreach Library
 
It’s dependant on size of the tank. I’ve seen them 100,000 gals up. Those tanks do not empty fast. In fact the first pump is done by gravity. It’s also dangerous to stay anywhere near due to fumes around the hatch:access. And I don’t recall if he put them in a crude tank or a gasoline tank which might provide fuel for company vehicles.

The oil storage tanks can be huge. My kids both painted them on summer break from school. Great little job, but they are extremely big.
It said crude tanks. Crude is extremely thick and would most likely require manual excavation or a very special pump and it would be very slow. I think they would send someone into the tank.
 
Story about my ex back when Amway was huge. My job paid very well. My husband, at the time, was also doing well as a pharm. rep. - he could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. Decided he wanted to do Amway, as I say, to stay at home and watch TV. I'd been great at saving when we both had "jobs"...his became a "TV clicker supervisor".
IMO, most of these things begin with huge sales, bonuses, gifts, what not. You basically sell some to your close friends. They buy to not hurt your feelings. And so on with their friends.
After a while, people just can't bear to buy the crap and stop. My ex started blowing thru the savings, because, of course, he wanted to keep his sales up so he could still be BMOC. We had enough "stuff" in the basement to last thru the next apocalypse. It was like a person on crack. He could not and would not stop.
Don't know if you guys remember Travis Alexander and PPL and the bonus trips. They were basically said to be "rewards", but, were actually like a session with the dentist in Marathon Man for the spouse who goes along.
I DO NOT in any way feel sorry for this monster. But, I experienced first hand how that carp consumes the other person 24/7/365.

My thought. The fact that she was due home at a certain time, and, the flight was delayed = the perfect storm. It's horrible to say, but, when kids are on your last nerve and you're expecting to hand them off at a certain time....
It reminds me of shaken baby syndrome. They just won't stop. So, instead of walking away or calling someone, the person just wants to explode, so, they take the worse possible path to what they think is a solution.

I can't even imagine how his anger grew while waiting for his wife to come thru that door. It became HER fault he killed those babies. SHE was late. If she wasn't consumed with her business meeting, she would have been home. If she was home, all would be well. Lord help her.
Sad and disgusting.
 
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Finally caught up. Hard to do when there are so many great posts.

Someone help me understand this...

Colorado dad's lawyer seeks DNA samples from daughters' bodies, but judge rejects forensics expert: report

What would the defense want this information for? Are they going to try to spin some tale that SW actually is the one who strangled the children? This is confusing to me.


I thought the same after reading the article. Will the defense say SW killed the children and CW killed SW as a result?
 
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