CO - Teacher Accused of Forcing Boy to Stand for Pledge of Allegiance Takes Plea Deal, Sept. 1, 2018

[EuTuCroquet?]

Lafayette teacher takes plea deal in Pledge of Allegiance case, retires

Karen Smith, 60, pleaded guilty Thursday afternoon to one count of child abuse resulting in injury, according to Boulder County District Attorney's spokeswoman Catherine Olguin.

Smith was sentenced to an 18-month deferred sentence, which means the guilty plea will be withdrawn if she can fulfill the terms of the sentence and avoid another criminal case during that time.

An additional charge of third-degree assault was dropped by prosecutors as a condition of the plea agreement.
...

It's the practice of the Boulder Valley School District to allow students to sit or stand during the pledge. A 1943 U.S. Supreme Court decision — West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette — prohibits state education boards from compelling public school pupils to salute the flag while reciting the pledge.​

Here's the prior WS thread for more info; it is closed.

 

[human]

Good. What a silly thing. Jehovah Witnesses do not do the Pledge. Maybe others as well.

Reminds me of when I was a child and we had the constant Communist scare.Russians had to sneak in radio Free Europe because all they got was govt propganda. They had to have absolute loyalty to the govt or they would be imprisoned or killed.

We saw them having military parades . We felt lucky to be in America where we were free. We did not have to fear an authoritarian govt.

 

[1&2&3]

A good laugh to end my night!

Having been raised in the Capital of West Virginia, we certainly did not have the choice of sit or stand for the pledge! My sons did not have the choice either in their elementary years. We left the state, but the choice was never given per many friends remaining in WV

It just hit me as funny that the Supreme Court Decision was made from a WV case and the state did not follow the rules.

 

[Jim G]

Children should at least stand for the Pledge even if they don't recite it. This shows courtesy and respect to their fellow students.

 

[yurena]

Why is this even happening inside a classroom? Imho How someone feels about their country of birth -or their country of residence- should be a matter to express in the privacy of their homes or whenever they decide to do it, not when someone else decides to on their behalf. Especially children! who are still developing their emotional intelligence and should be given "freedom" and space to think for themselves. This piece of news is bizarre to say the least.

 

[Jim G]

The Pledge is the MOST important part of any child's schoolday.

 

[flourish]

I have a master's in teaching. The pledge is not remotely the most important part of the school day.

Anyway, food for thought




Twitter

 

[frisson]

Children and all people should do what they feel from their hearts, not what they are forced to do... in a free country .

 

[MarziPanda]

I've always found the tradition of the pledge weird. I'm not from the US and don't live there either. It just seems like weird indoctrination to me. Like something China would do! Children absolutely should not be forced to pledge anything. It makes me laugh that the people who think children should be forced to stand for the pledge are usually also the people who like to think the US is 'the land of the free'

 

[frisson]

What is next? Forcing them to kneel and pray to the god of the teachers' or president's choosing? Stand if you want; pray if you want. recite if you want.

 

[lonetraveler]

The Pledge is the MOST important part of any child's schoolday.

I agree. God forbid that Little Johnny or Judy learn to actually respect their country .

 

[frisson]

I agree. God forbid that Little Johnny or Judy learn to actually respect their country .

I think there are many ways to respect and serve one's country without being forced to stand and recite

 

[cybervampira]

”Do not train a child to learn by force or harshness; but direct them to it by what amuses their minds, so that you may be better able to discover with accuracy the peculiar bent of the genius of each.“

(Plato)

 

[Jennifer17]

The Pledge is the MOST important part of any child's schoolday.

The rest of the world educates their children without pledges and phony patriotism.

I agree. God forbid that Little Johnny or Judy learn to actually respect their country .

You cant respect your country except by forcing children to parrot words?

 

[kaen]

I happen to be of a religious faith that doesn't pledge, swear oaths, or commit to military service. I can and do practice my freedom of religion by not participating in these activities. My children have every right to not participate according to the Supreme Court of the United States (see citation below). Reciting a pledge doesn't signify respect for a country nor does placing one hand over their heart. I am deeply respectful of my country and do not need to show that respect by pledging my allegiance. I can serve meals and help vets and be grateful for their service. Members of my family have served our country through non-battlefield positions.

However, I believe the bigger issue (and probably the only issue) here is a teacher who assaulted a child based on the child's refusal to pledge. This woman plead guilty to child abuse resulting in injury. Regardless of her moral position (without legal basis) that a child should be required to stand, she put her hands on child to get them to comply. To my knowledge Colorado is not a state where children can be spanked, beaten, or physically punished by a teacher based on a teacher's discretion. So, why are we talking about children and their lack of action (seen as a right in this country) rather than the teacher's assault upon a child? "Karen Smith, 60, pleaded guilty Thursday afternoon to one count of child abuse resulting in injury, according to Boulder County District Attorney's spokeswoman Catherine Olguin." Dailycamera.com article. She admits guilt and recognized that her actions were wrong. How in the world are we talking about children who "should be doing x or y" and not talking about a woman who is an admitted child abuser and caused injury to a child?




Wikipedia: The most important U.S. Supreme Court legal victory won by the Witnesses was in the case West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette (1943), in which the court ruled that school children could not be forced to pledge allegiance to or salute the U.S. flag. The Barnette decision overturned an earlier case, Minersville School District vs. Gobitis (1940), in which the court had held that Witnesses could be forced against their will to pay homage to the flag.

 

[human]

I happen to be of a religious faith that doesn't pledge, swear oaths, or commit to military service. I can and do practice my freedom of religion by not participating in these activities. My children have every right to not participate according to the Supreme Court of the United States (see citation below). Reciting a pledge doesn't signify respect for a country nor does placing one hand over their heart. I am deeply respectful of my country and do not need to show that respect by pledging my allegiance. I can serve meals and help vets and be grateful for their service. Members of my family have served our country through non-battlefield positions.

However, I believe the bigger issue (and probably the only issue) here is a teacher who assaulted a child based on the child's refusal to pledge. This woman plead guilty to child abuse resulting in injury. Regardless of her moral position (without legal basis) that a child should be required to stand, she put her hands on child to get them to comply. To my knowledge Colorado is not a state where children can be spanked, beaten, or physically punished by a teacher based on a teacher's discretion. So, why are we talking about children and their lack of action (seen as a right in this country) rather than the teacher's assault upon a child? "Karen Smith, 60, pleaded guilty Thursday afternoon to one count of child abuse resulting in injury, according to Boulder County District Attorney's spokeswoman Catherine Olguin." Dailycamera.com article. She admits guilt and recognized that her actions were wrong. How in the world are we talking about children who "should be doing x or y" and not talking about a woman who is an admitted child abuser and caused injury to a child?




Wikipedia: The most important U.S. Supreme Court legal victory won by the Witnesses was in the case West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette (1943), in which the court ruled that school children could not be forced to pledge allegiance to or salute the U.S. flag. The Barnette decision overturned an earlier case, Minersville School District vs. Gobitis (1940), in which the court had held that Witnesses could be forced against their will to pay homage to the flag.

Yes, that is the other part we should be concerned about. The abuse is merely another part of coercing people. Exactly the opposite of what America stands for.

We used to think dictatorships like the Soviet Union were horrible. Now it seems like they are the model.

 

[frisson]

I happen to be of a religious faith that doesn't pledge, swear oaths, or commit to military service. I can and do practice my freedom of religion by not participating in these activities. My children have every right to not participate according to the Supreme Court of the United States (see citation below). Reciting a pledge doesn't signify respect for a country nor does placing one hand over their heart. I am deeply respectful of my country and do not need to show that respect by pledging my allegiance. I can serve meals and help vets and be grateful for their service. Members of my family have served our country through non-battlefield positions.

However, I believe the bigger issue (and probably the only issue) here is a teacher who assaulted a child based on the child's refusal to pledge. This woman plead guilty to child abuse resulting in injury. Regardless of her moral position (without legal basis) that a child should be required to stand, she put her hands on child to get them to comply. To my knowledge Colorado is not a state where children can be spanked, beaten, or physically punished by a teacher based on a teacher's discretion. So, why are we talking about children and their lack of action (seen as a right in this country) rather than the teacher's assault upon a child? "Karen Smith, 60, pleaded guilty Thursday afternoon to one count of child abuse resulting in injury, according to Boulder County District Attorney's spokeswoman Catherine Olguin." Dailycamera.com article. She admits guilt and recognized that her actions were wrong. How in the world are we talking about children who "should be doing x or y" and not talking about a woman who is an admitted child abuser and caused injury to a child?




Wikipedia: The most important U.S. Supreme Court legal victory won by the Witnesses was in the case West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette (1943), in which the court ruled that school children could not be forced to pledge allegiance to or salute the U.S. flag. The Barnette decision overturned an earlier case, Minersville School District vs. Gobitis (1940), in which the court had held that Witnesses could be forced against their will to pay homage to the flag.

standing applause!

 

[frisson]

Yes, that is the other part we should be concerned about. The abuse is merely another part of coercing people. Exactly the opposite of what America stands for.

We used to think dictatorships like the Soviet Union were horrible. Now it seems like they are the model.

Yes, preaching to the choir...

....and I know the initials of the "model."
I'll see myself out

 

[Woodland]

A 60 year-old teacher suddenly decided to commit this crime against a child on one particular day? I highly question - is this only time she acted like she did or, did something in her life make her feel empowered to act this way? Her sentence reflects the seriousness of her crime imo.

She reminds of ISIS - you will do as I say according to my religious beliefs and I will use any force necessary to make you comply. A child no less - same as ISIS. Jmo. What is going on here?

 

[frisson]

A 60 year-old teacher suddenly decided to commit this crime against a child on one particular day? I highly question - is this only time she acted like she did or, did something in her life make her feel empowered to act this way? Her sentence reflects the seriousness of her crime imo.

She reminds of ISIS - you will do as I say according to my religious beliefs and I will use any force necessary to make you comply. A child no less - same as ISIS. Jmo. What is going on here?

You just said it all beautifully.
Now I shall sit on my hands.