CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #1

[MayraMM]

But that doesn't jive with her mother pushing for her daughters death to be homicide instead of natural causes which it was originally. After she complained it was not a natural death it was changed to suicide. I don't think she would have pushed it if she wanted insurance money.

Double indemnity for murder?

 

[SoBeCzar]

Here's her blog http://morganingram.com/wordpress/
on the jewelry scroll down to the blog dirty little secrets why would a monster love it here. I'm confused with this story and what to believe and not to believe, but I do think if she was being stalked, and her jewerly was missing and one of the people accused of stalking her is caught selling stolen jewlrey then most would have an opinion that should be key evidence if infact it was Morgans From what I understand it was never investigated to see if it was Morgans.

And if it was stolen jewelry, how did the police know it was stolen without comparing it to hers?

 

[SmoothOperator]

No way the photo has been "photoshopped" as in putting a stalker in the photo..thats just not the case here..has this chitty,hunting cam snapshot been saved,compressed,screen shot,and every other imaginable form of saving or viewing it any one can think of????yep,it sure has a hundred times over..
the only lines that are seen imo are the horizontal lines that are in the pour of the concrete driveway(which happen to line up and are consistent)..

One point I feel worth noting before even going any further in discussing the possibilities of this being a faked, photoshopped in stalker..and that point imo is important and very much worth noting..LE STANCE HAS NEVER EVER BEEN that this FELONY STALKING CASE was based upon a figment of someones imagination, mental illness/psychosis, nor any other form of fraudulence where this case is concerned..

So,while I understand that some may be of the opinion that this stalker is a figment of someones imagination and I respect any who are of that opinion but it does need to be noted that while people here presently discussing and sleuthing this case are of the opinion the stalker is not real, photos have been altered for fraudulent purposes involving felony stalking investigations,and other nefarious intents and purposes..LE DOES NOT AND HAS NOT EVER MADE THESE TYPE CLAIMS,NOR EVEN ALLUDED TO THIS FELONY STALKING CASE BEING OF A FRAUDULENT NATURE.

Thats not ever been any of their stance..the case was upgraded to a FELONY STALKING CASE so while it may appear to some to be BS about the entire stalker even existing(and in such their having photoshopped and deceived and conned federal government officials)..while I fully understand that opinion as well as respect that opinion..

The truth about the situation is that there is nothing fake about the stalker and LE is not of the opinion that the stalker is fake..you do not upgrade a case to FELONY STALKING when there is question of whether a stalker even actually exists..

Back to this photo that came from the wildlife camera mounted to the Ingram home..this very much was an open, active case ..it was actually even after this photo was made that LE upgraded the case to A FELONY STALKING CASE..my reason for saying such is that with it being an open, active, felony case there absolutely were such measures taken of verifying authenticity of images and were they altered, photoshopped,and masks being copy/pasted onto the bodies of made up fictional stalkers that they pasted into the photo of their driveway...<---these extremely fraudulent,illegal, prosecutable offenses have not ever been a part of this case..

AFTER THE IMAGE OF THE STALKER WAS CAUGHT ON THIS CAM ITS WORTH REPEATING THAT THE CASE WAS UPGRADED TO FELONY STATUS..I just really wanna stress that if anything IMO we have everything indicating the exact opposites of these thoughts of faking, lying, and/or mental illness psychosis..any/all of those being involved in this stalking case..

In knowing that it was AFTER THE FACT of this image being captured that LE moved this to FELONY STATUS I personally havent a doubt that the picture is authentic..the cam was purchased that day,Toni and Steve argued that evening in their hurriedly wanting to get the camera mounted and working ..thry settled on the area where they felt it would NOT be so easily detected, hoped that it wasnt, and figured that they could always move and mount it to a different spot the next night.

They were awakened shortly after going to bed to the musical chairs alerts of the alarms and lights as the stalker was repeatedly setting them off and seemed to be heavily focusing back toward the side of the home that Morgans bedroom and bathroom were on..both ended up outside the home with flash lights and pepper spray and just were dumbstruck at how with both seeming to cover the entire perimeter and meet in the middle just how in the hell did they miss him..

They call it in to dispatch as they are always and repeatedly reminded to do and await as the three deputies come out search around,and come in and speak with them in the home briefly,all frustrated,all hoping that if for nothing else that hopefully theyve done the job of scaring him off for the night atleast..the one deputy leaves out first,shortly thereafter the other two follow and leave the Ingram home..that was at 12:44am..

Toni and Steve get into bed and within mere mins Toni hops up saying they needed to check the new cam..that at the very least the cam would have picked up snap shots of the deputies having crossed the cams path and if it didnt take any snap shots that they needed to know so they could return it and purchase one that would work..

They quickly take out memory card,load in pc,and pull up 12pics it had taken that night..these pics were djscovered and seen within mere minutes of those three deputies having just left the Ingram home..The fam immediately called it in and the deputies immediately returned to the Ingram home where all 3 were really quite disturbed in seeing the image of the person who literally appears within seconds of their having pulled away from the home..

LE left with these photos that imo can be bet heavily on that were absolutely verified as authentic and not altered ..the original and accurate timestamp are still on eaxh image representing just how very close in time that we are talking about between the time its documented on cam as they leave and within minutes that they are back at the home and the images are seen of the stalker..

The "stalker" is real as well as the photos clearly documenting these deputies being immediately followed by the "stalker" on the property of the Ingram family are also "real"..and that information has never even been questioned by LE as being fabricated, fraudulent, or otherwise..

Jmo.

 

[Herding Cats]

Pensfan, the county coroner didn't blame the death on amitriptiline ( can't spell tonight, sorry). The second opinion pathologist was the one who pointed out the levels of drug in Morgan's system.

The original coroner ruled it natural causes, and only after the info above came to light, and after a lot of pressure from the Ingrams to change it to murder, did he change it to suicide. Which itself is an interesting little event.

It bears repeating that for the amount of pills needed to get there (per your own post), GI motility would have decreased, and fragments of pills or pills themselves likely would have been found. And the coroner did not find any remnants of pills or pills themselves...

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[laura08]

And if it was stolen jewelry, how did the police know it was stolen without comparing it to hers?

It was probably hers, but I don't know for sure. Morgans mom says she has alot of info she just can't release right now. It was a warrant from selling jewerly he had sold at a cash for gold store, so possible it was Morgans or could have been someone else's jewerly.

 

[Herding Cats]

Here is another possibility. Maybe the bank took possession of VRW's home earlier and rented it out to Toni?

While banks don't usually do the rental thing, they might have. Lots of unique real estate dealings these days, you know?

Ingram has said a few times that they lived in the valley for something like 6 years. I can't find any records of sales from 2005/6...some from 04, but I can't find out who the owners were then.

Sometimes I wish I was still in real estate - there are ways to access the information online through the MLS, and title insurers do it as a matter of regular course, but I can't seem to be able to unearth that info at all.

Sigh.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I wonder if her death was thought to be from natural causes and then when the toxicology report came back it was then ruled a suicide?

Or, did the parents ask for a second opinion?

Nevermind, just saw the above post answering my question.....

 

[Pensfan]

Pensfan, the county coroner didn't blame the death on amitriptiline ( can't spell tonight, sorry). The second opinion pathologist was the one who pointed out the levels of drug in Morgan's system.

The original coroner ruled it natural causes, and only after the info above came to light, and after a lot of pressure from the Ingrams, did he change it to suicide.

It bears repeating that for the amount of pills needed to get there (per your own post), GI motility would have decreased, and fragments of pills or pills themselves likely would have been found. And the coroner did not find any remnants of pills or pills themselves...

Best-
Herding Cats

If a young health individual falls over dead, there will be a FULL autopsy performed. If an 89-year-old from the nursing home with multi-organ system failure falls over dead, there won't likely be an autopsy.
Nobody competent would declare a young healthy person's death "a natural death" until after a full autopsy. There would be toxicology tests performed. The lethal dose of Amitriptyline would show up in the first toxicology results. The coroner or medical examiner would likely rule it "ingestion suicide". The mother's story may not be quite accurate. IMO, it isn't logical.

 

[laura08]

This is one of the most bizzare stories I've heard of, it's like trying to find puzzle peices and put them togethor to get the full story but so hard to do like a 5,000 piece puzzle. I feel sorry for Morgans family and I hope they find the peace , answers and or justice they deserve.

I think things could have been done differently during the timeframe, 50 times is alot for LE to be called to a home. I wonder if the cops ever set up undercover and privately to see if they could observe anything. I also only seen one picture of the suspect but would think the cam would have captured more.

Goodnight everyone

 

[concernedmother]

This is one of the most bizzare stories I've heard of, it's like trying to find puzzle peices and put them togethor to get the full story but so hard to do like a 5,000 piece puzzle. I feel sorry for Morgans family and I hope they find the peace , answers and or justice they deserve.

I think things could have been done differently during the timeframe, 50 times is alot for LE to be called to a home. I wonder if the cops ever set up undercover and privately to see if they could observe anything. I also only seen one picture of the suspect but would think the cam would have captured more.

Goodnight everyone

Good point. Why isnt there more?Was this the stalker or just a nosy neighbor wanting to see why the cops are always there?

 

[MayraMM]

SmoothOperator: If the picture was found shortly after the police left, and if they were called back, saw the picture and upgraded the case to felony stalking because of the picture, it still doesn't tell us who was in the picture. It could have been a curious neighbor, it could have been one of the parents who threw on a mask and went out to make sure a picture was captured, or it could in fact have been a stalker.

The reason I have such a problem with that picture being of the stalker is because this guy, if there was a stalker, knew EVERYTHING that was going on in that house. He knew what room Morgan was in, where she was sleeping, all kinds of stuff. He had watched pretty thoroughly. How could he not know there was a camera there, especially if he was up on that roof? Why would he risk crossing the front of the house to watch the police leave when the family could have been watching, too? And again, my biggest problem with a stalker of Morgan is why did he kill her? If there was an intruder, then I don't think Morgan was the target at all.

 

[SoBeCzar]

It was probably hers, but I don't know for sure. Morgans mom says she has alot of info she just can't release right now. It was a warrant from selling jewerly he had sold at a cash for gold store, so possible it was Morgans or could have been someone else's jewerly.

I just don't get LE having a death of a young healthy person who has been stalked not following up on missing jewelry.
The question I was throwing out there is in order for K to get arrested for selling stolen jewelry someone had to report that jewelry as stolen. The Gold store had to have recognized it's description or called LE because he thought it was suspicious. Either way someone had to have reported that jewelry as stolen, with photos of it or a detailed description so it could be identified. So I am wondering if K had verified stolen jewelry and some unverified that may have been Morgans. I would think if it was only the reported stolen jewelry they would have just told her mother it wasn't Morgans.
Stealing and selling jewelry does lead me to believe he was breaking into peoples homes. That is a stepping stone to murder right along with peeping in houses. Escalating to breaking in and eventually murder. If that jewelry ever was connected to Morgan I would think her death would have been taken more seriously. I don't understand why Mom didn't follow up with a description. But then again her daughter had just died.

 

[Lera213]

The pic above looks like an older man to me. But what I dont get is the stalker was so good no one could catch him and he wears a really light or white shirt?

nobody could catch him because he hid up on the roof, the reason for the white shirt is to blend in with the roof

 

[colette]

The amitriptyline could have been a liquid for pet use or taken from the horse barn by the home. A soft drink could have been spiked or she could have been forced to drink at gun point. Remember the case where a neighbor poisoned some colas? It happens. Also 2 door locks were broken within 1 week, another sign that someone most likely had been in the home already.

Also remember EAR/ONS, he was on many roofs. He escaped LE this way many times.

 

[MayraMM]

If the jewelry was hers, it would stand to reason the parents would have been asked to identify it. As for how he got caught, it could have been that a piece of jewelry he tried to pawn was on the weekly BOLO for pawnshops. It's probably all computerized nowadays, anyway. The only reason I can think of for denying Morgan's family a look at the jewelry is because none of it matched and the case therefore didn't concern them. If it goes to trial, they can be in the audience and get a look then. They can maybe go ask the store owner what the pieces were or show him/her pictures of the jewelry missing from Morgan's room and see if any is recognized, or they can hire an attorney to push the issue. There might even be descriptions of the pieces in the arrest report, and they can file to see a copy of that report after the case is closed.

 

[Herding Cats]

SmoothOperator: If the picture was found shortly after the police left, and if they were called back, saw the picture and upgraded the case to felony stalking because of the picture, it still doesn't tell us who was in the picture. It could have been a curious neighbor, it could have been one of the parents who threw on a mask and went out to make sure a picture was captured, or it could in fact have been a stalker.

The reason I have such a problem with that picture being of the stalker is because this guy, if there was a stalker, knew EVERYTHING that was going on in that house. He knew what room Morgan was in, where she was sleeping, all kinds of stuff. He had watched pretty thoroughly. How could he not know there was a camera there, especially if he was up on that roof? Why would he risk crossing the front of the house to watch the police leave when the family could have been watching, too? And again, my biggest problem with a stalker of Morgan is why did he kill her? If there was an intruder, then I don't think Morgan was the target at all.

BBM.

Here is one way that this could have happened...Morgan herself gave the info out.

She had a good friend, C., with whom she spent the night sometimes, and with whom she probably confided. A number of times she had just left C's house when the stalking occurred.

I think C., who is a friend of B., was either telling B. things unwittingly, or was in on the "let's scare her" plan or "she's trying to steal my b/f, let's get her back" plan. K is B's b/f.

And Morgan didn't know the first bit of what was happening. She used C's as an escape, a safe place. What if it wasn't? What if C was (knowingly or not) collaborating with B, who was provoking K (ala Diane Zamora), and/or B was the stalker? And B and K were living a few doors away, so it wasn't difficult at all to get there and then "disappear" when the parents went outside to find the stalker.

I think something like that may have occurred. I am leaning towards the death being an accident during the commission of another crime, which still would be considered murder. But like I said to Pensfan, I want to see the ARs and the rest of the evidence before I make up my mind.

That's just a thought that's been running around my poor excuse for a brain tonight...

I'm heading to bed shortly...hope everyone has a great night. What a great conversation this has been (and it's kept me from doing housework, too. Dunno if I should be happy or sad about that. ROFL...)

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[concernedmother]

Why was this guy so fixated on Morgan to creep her window and kill her? Why no notes, calls etc? He decides to play hide and seek for awhile and bam she is dead. He had opportunities to get to her when she left the house. Why keep doing this at the house? It doesnt make sense unless he was trying to pay her parents back for something. Unless this stalker WAS spending time with her unbeknown to Morgan. Maybe it was someone she knew trusted and hung out with.Perhaps he did want her and knew he didnt have a chance.I think her friends would have been on my suspect list too.

 

[concernedmother]

Herding Cats we posted along the same line at the same time. lol

 

[Herding Cats]

Pensfan, there is apparently some evidence which leads the family to believe that the stalker was on the roof...

And yes, ConcernedMother, similar ideas. I did some looking around, and there is one person who is mentioned as a place Morgan would go to; this person is also a friend of B and K. Interesting, no?

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Lera213]

He is wearing a tactical chest harness. You can add extra stuff to it. Depending on what he is carrying. This harness can also be converted to add repelling gear, gun, canteen, flashlight, anything really> this may not be exactly cause some the pouches that hold stuff sits down further then the one shown here.

My gut now is telling me this is an older guy, he has military experience...likely army or marines.