CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #2

[concernedmother]

I wish we had an idea of the scene that night in M's room. Also the complete autopsy report. All we have is a second opinion ruled undetermined, one image on a cam and a footprint.

 

[rollinginit]

I wish we had an idea of the scene that night in M's room. Also the complete autopsy report. All we have is a second opinion ruled undetermined, one image on a cam and a footprint.

I suspect that is going to be a hard day when mom writes it in the blog.

I know from this blog, it says that first responders were shaken.
http://morganingram.com/death.html

I wonder who stole mom's gnome?

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=367

 

[hambirg]

If this was some high tech covert operation that escapes a perimeter of surveillance undetected thats goal is to enter a home and murder someone then you are looking at an entirely different perp. Then you would have to believe Morgan held some classified secrets or knew something big that the perp didnt want told.

I agree with NancyA . Sometimes the simplest explanation is probably the right one.

Unless that home had a secret trap door and underground tunnel it was probably someone right under their noses the whole time.

BBM

First, I'll apologize because I am not anywhere near being caught up. BUT I do think there is a big back story here. One that possibly only Morgan and one other person knew about.

She was an avid photographer, 4000 pics I think her mom said. I think those should be looked at very carefully, not only for what is there, but for what is not there.

I have another theory as well, just going off of Morgan's visceral reactions to someone. I'll hold that for the time being. But I would like to know if a rape kit was ever done. If not, I think that was probably the single biggest mistake in this case.

MOO

 

[concernedmother]

I suspect that is going to be a hard day when mom writes it in the blog.

I know from this blog, it says that first responders were shaken.
http://morganingram.com/death.html

I wonder who stole mom's gnome?

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=367

There is something on the ground there that looks like someone could stand on to get to her window? But again why is there an image of a deer and not a person that night?

 

[JBean]

Can someon clarify something for me? My understanding is that there were no pill fragments found in her belly.
But I have read subsequent posts that there were some pill fragments.
If anyone can answer that definitively and link it up that would be great.

Otherwise I would like to get this answered by Toni tonight.
TIA

 

[rollinginit]

There is something on the ground there that looks like someone could stand on to get to her window? But again why is there an image of a deer and not a person that night?

Notice the big black void behind the deer? It possible stalker kept to the shadows.

One thing I am almost positive on....the stalker wasn't outside when this picture was taken (at least not by the deer) female deers will smell a human and run. I'm NOT sure, but isn't dec rutting season for deer?

I wish hubby was home to tell me.

 

[basilcat]

Oh my... none of this makes any sense to me at all...
I am so sorry that a beautiful young girl died - but I am not convinced it was murder...
Sometimes after a horrible loss the human mind can try to make sense of things that simply don't equate to what one wants to believe by trying to force the pieces of a puzzle into a complete theory... The finished project is bumpy and skewed. (Think of a jigsaw puzzle bunched together)
I don't know... maybe it's a form of grief - trying to attain a level of acceptance. i don't want to say M committed suicide - maybe she was just really tired and took some medication to try to get some sleep. Maybe that's all it was.
My heart aches for M's family though, as their minds search for some way to justify and understand her death. I just think the conspiracy theory thing is just a little too hindsight is 20\20...Looking back on an event can be very biased especially when one's emotions are involved - that's why history is such a complicated subject.
In any case I hope they Ms family and friends eventually find some sort of peace.

 

[concernedmother]

This is a heartbreaking story no matter how it plays out. Her parents are in tremendous pain and I hope they can get someone to take a look at everything to figure it out. I understand them. If my daughter ended up dead and I had some unanswered questions I wouldnt stop until I got someone to listen to me either.

 

[MayraMM]

I am confused about the pics from the wildlife cam. It's super creepy, and it raises a lot of questions about whether/ how the stalker was able to detect and avoid the motion detectors/ cameras

* Morgan's dad (and the blog post) said that 12 photos were taken, but 8 were of him setting up the camera, which leaves the four posted on the blog.

The first 2 photos are only 1 second apart:

0:43 we see first officer in the shot, truck in the background.

00:44 2 officers in the shot, and the truck is gone. The 1st officer has walked a few steps, and the 2nd is at just about the same spot as the first officer was 1 second ago.

00:45 No shot - Why didn't it capture the officer leaving the frame?

00:46 Stalker appears - blurry and distorted. Is this from movement? No blur on officers walking, so he must be moving fast. Direction: into frame, but away from camera. Hard to tell what direction he is looking.

00:47 No shot. If he caught a glimpse of the camera, while moving quickly, one would assume he would turn around, and have to slow down or pause while locating the camera. how did he find and avoid the camera so quickly?

0:48 Camera records blur of tree, different angle, as it has been knocked slightly up and over. How did the stalker get to the camera (12 ft high) so quickly without him or object being caught on camera again?

Was the camera actually broken or just moved? Did SI notice it was broken or out of place when he went to retrieve the card, or only after he saw the pics?

* TI says in the blog post the photos are date and timestamped. But the time must be wrong, as she says the officers are at the house at 12:45 am. Is the interval correct? (Just wondering, because sometimes timestamps can be added when photos are uploaded onto a computer or website. For example, Flickr assigns 1 second intervals to photos without a date stamp, to keep your photos in their original order) If it is wrong it would be possible that the 'assault' on the camera did not happen 2 seconds after the stalker, and could even be SI moving the camera to retrieve the card.

* What about the other photos the camera didn't take? i.e. between the 8 shots taken while setting up the camera (late afternoon) and 00:45 when we see the officers leaving? For example:

- 11 pm, when TI describes motion detectors going off and then going off again as SI circles all around the house?
- arrival of officers at the house
- SI retrieving camera card

Anyway, I don't exactly know how these wildlife cameras work, and it might help to know the range, as a limited range might help explain some of my questions.

I'm curious to know what happened once they installed a better camera system... They obviously worked very hard to try to protect Morgan

I, too have wondered if the camera didn't capture the police arriving, and before that, the family running outside trying to catch the person setting off the alarms. Surely there had to be more than 8 pictures if the camera is motion activated and the lights and alarms were being set off continuously that night.

 

[JBean]

Reminder Toni is going to be talking with Tricia tonight on WS Radio.
Show starts in about 20 minutes or so:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2012/09/17/websleuths-radio

You can call in and ask your questions.

 

[MayraMM]

The postmortem redistribution is yet another issue for the toxicologists to argue over.

When I went digging, I found this article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.ezproxy.welch.jhmi.edu/pubmed/1588667
Amitriptyline and amitriptyline metabolites in blood and cerebrospinal fluid following human overdose.
Bengt-Åke Hultén, Andrew Heath, Kai Knudsen, Gösta Nyberg, Charlotte Svensson, Eric Mårtensson
Clinical Toxicology Jan 1992, Vol. 30, No. 2, Pages 181-201: 181-201.

Sorry, the full text is not available free on the web, but I could email the pdf to Herding if she wants. The patients in this study took overdoses of 1000 to 5000 mg, and the highest plasma ami concentration measured was about half what was in Morgan's system (e.g., 4400 ng/mL). These were severely overdosed patients brought into the hospital alive, so no postmortem redistribution issue here. (Another point is all of these patients survived their overdoses.)

One of the questions to ask the parents tonight is if any of the toxicologists or pathologists involved estimated the ami dose Morgan received. My guess is its at least as high if not more than what this series of patients took.

So if we go by these numbers, she had to have between 2000 and 10,000 mg to get the levels her tox screen showed. The largest dose I saw available were 50-mg tablets (with the liquid generally being 10 to 20 mg a dose and not sure how many doses per bottle), so that would mean 50 to 200 of the largest dose pills ingested. That's an awful lot to crush and force someone to swallow. We know it was not a slow poisoning over time, so what could that amount of pills been mixed with to make it not noticeable?

Yogurt wouldn't work, the graininess would come out, as would the bitter taste. Any drink would have had to have been a large drink of something very strong to hide the taste.

Does anyone remember if Morgan's Dad mentioned what form the Ami was found in her stomach? Did he say pill fragments or just that it was found in the stomach contents.

It would almost certainly had to have been liquid, and lots of it.

 

[bearx]

There is something on the ground there that looks like someone could stand on to get to her window? But again why is there an image of a deer and not a person that night?

From the psychic visit post, I believe they think the person avoided cameras by climbing trees, scaling onto the roof, and leaning over to tap on the windows, so maybe they think this person was able to kind of slither in too? But I've seen the pic of her window and the roof has a fairly large overhang creating some shade so I'm not sure it's humanly possible. They also think this is why they never saw anyone in the yard; he just hid on the roof while they were running around.

 

[Marshmallow]

BBM

First, I'll apologize because I am not anywhere near being caught up. BUT I do think there is a big back story here. One that possibly only Morgan and one other person knew about.

She was an avid photographer, 4000 pics I think her mom said. I think those should be looked at very carefully, not only for what is there, but for what is not there.

I have another theory as well, just going off of Morgan's visceral reactions to someone. I'll hold that for the time being. But I would like to know if a rape kit was ever done. If not, I think that was probably the single biggest mistake in this case.

MOO

or it may be that there is no crime here, just a few random events that were just regular every day events or noises that grew larger than life when fuled by fear. Fear is an amazing thing, not only can it grow on it's own, but it is also contageous and can morph nothing into something and change shape as time goes by. I believe Morgan's fear was real but I am not sure it was fueled by something real and may have caused innocent noises and events to seem more frightening than they were and may have caused her to act in ways that no one predicted she would. it may be that nothing was found because there may have been nothing to find.

 

[bearx]

So if we go by these numbers, she had to have between 2000 and 10,000 mg to get the levels her tox screen showed. The largest dose I saw available were 50-mg tablets (with the liquid generally being 10 to 20 mg a dose and not sure how many doses per bottle), so that would mean 50 to 200 of the largest dose pills ingested. That's an awful lot to crush and force someone to swallow. We know it was not a slow poisoning over time, so what could that amount of pills been mixed with to make it not noticeable?

Yogurt wouldn't work, the graininess would come out, as would the bitter taste. Any drink would have had to have been a large drink of something very strong to hide the taste.

Does anyone remember if Morgan's Dad mentioned what form the Ami was found in her stomach? Did he say pill fragments or just that it was found in the stomach contents.

It would almost certainly had to have been liquid, and lots of it.

I thought it was via blood test? Let me go back and search.

 

[bearx]

Can someon clarify something for me? My understanding is that there were no pill fragments found in her belly.
But I have read subsequent posts that there were some pill fragments.
If anyone can answer that definitively and link it up that would be great.

Otherwise I would like to get this answered by Toni tonight.
TIA

It was on this phone call that I was threatened by this Pathologist that if I continued fighting the natural causes he would have to look into suicide or accidental overdose, but he couldn’t because he did not find any pills or remnants in her stomach at the time of autopsy

from

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1207

 

[MayraMM]

Can someon clarify something for me? My understanding is that there were no pill fragments found in her belly.
But I have read subsequent posts that there were some pill fragments.
If anyone can answer that definitively and link it up that would be great.

Otherwise I would like to get this answered by Toni tonight.
TIA

The second opinion pathologist mentions Flexeril pill fragments in her stomach. That's on the faxed letter.

Mogran's Dad mentioned last night that there was also amitriptyline found in her stomach, but I can't recall if he mentioned pill fragments or if not. It could be that the stomach contents just showed the presence of ami. Either way, that would mean ingestion. He also said there were 2 other date rape drugs found in the stomach contents.

I think this needs to be clarified tonight. I also hope someone asks about the CO poisoning event and who got sick, whether there was any sequelae.

I have to work, or I'd be listening and calling in myself.

 

[bearx]

The second opinion pathologist mentions Flexeril pill fragments in her stomach. That's on the faxed letter.

Mogran's Dad mentioned last night that there was also amitriptyline found in her stomach, but I can't recall if he mentioned pill fragments or if not. It could be that the stomach contents just showed the presence of ami. Either way, that would mean ingestion. He also said there were 2 other date rape drugs found in the stomach contents.

I think this needs to be clarified tonight. I also hope someone asks about the CO poisoning event and who got sick, whether there was any sequelae.

I have to work, or I'd be listening and calling in myself.

I'm curious where the info for that opinion came from if the autopsy didn't find anything and then she was cremated. Again, we're missing something.

 

[twinkiesmom]

So if we go by these numbers, she had to have between 2000 and 10,000 mg to get the levels her tox screen showed. The largest dose I saw available were 50-mg tablets (with the liquid generally being 10 to 20 mg a dose and not sure how many doses per bottle), so that would mean 50 to 200 of the largest dose pills ingested. That's an awful lot to crush and force someone to swallow. We know it was not a slow poisoning over time, so what could that amount of pills been mixed with to make it not noticeable?

Yogurt wouldn't work, the graininess would come out, as would the bitter taste. Any drink would have had to have been a large drink of something very strong to hide the taste.

Does anyone remember if Morgan's Dad mentioned what form the Ami was found in her stomach? Did he say pill fragments or just that it was found in the stomach contents.

It would almost certainly had to have been liquid, and lots of it.

The largest pills (human and veterinary) are 150 mg....but still an awful amount of pills to swallow as these would be the largest sized pills (more excipients as well as more active drug). I haven't read anywhere about pill fragments other than JBean asking about it.

 

[rollinginit]

I think it's possible some sicko who was experienced in hunting/cameras/sneaking around was obsessed by m. Maybe he was on the ami bc he's a sicko with huge mental issues. He's a loser that watched this family and became obsessed with making their life heLL. M became withdrawn and the i's were getting better at watching.. I think it's possible he got some of his meds that he's not been taking, and he ground them up. Loaded them in a needle or forced them down her throat. Stuck into her room bc he KNOWS that house as well as his own. Watching, waiting. M comes home, goes to bed. Stalker waits unti everything is quite and everybody is asleep. He chloroforms her, or something else....and injects her with the
meds he bought along. He could have got the pup and stuck it in the bathroom beforhand. Or the pup knew him.
I think the whole motive was just the fact that he was hurting m down the Hallway from her parents. Maybe something sexual mixed in also.????????????????????? The sexual thing only comes to my mind bc of the drugs.

This is all a big jmo. jmo.

 

[hambirg]

or it may be that there is no crime here, just a few random events that were just regular every day events or noises that grew larger than life when fuled by fear. Fear is an amazing thing, not only can it grow on it's own, but it is also contageous and can morph nothing into something and change shape as time goes by. I believe Morgan's fear was real but I am not sure it was fueled by something real and may have caused innocent noises and events to seem more frightening than they were and may have caused her to act in ways that no one predicted she would. it may be that nothing was found because there may have been nothing to find.

But we know her car was keyed and @$%^ was scratched into it. I don't consider that a normal everyday event that can be explained away. JMHO I think there is a back story here that started long before mom and dad were even aware of what was going on.

MOO