CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #5

[MayraMM]

Wonder why? They found her at 5? Wouldnt you just call 911 right away?

Well, if we go under the assumption she was pronounced in the home, then there's 3 hours to account for. Like I said, the family may have been cleaning her up, taking care of her one last time. It might have been very obvious that 911 wasn't going to be able to help them.

If she was taken to the hospital and pronounced there, there's still a bit of a lapse in time.

If mom found her at 5:30, and the post showed lividity to her back (lying on her back), then I'm going to assume she wasn't lying on her side for that long after dying, so maybe it wasn't that obvious she was dead. Mom said dad was working on her for a bit.

The question in my mind remains: why did mom check on her at 5:30 in the first place?

 

[concernedmother]

I knew someone that popped a bottle of pills and was taken to hospital and had stomach pumped. She didnt throw up. But I wonder if they usually went in and checked on her at some point? Could it have been a cry for help? Because thats what my friend did. she just couldnt take things any more and wanted it to stop but really didnt want to die.

 

[kimmie0313]

I think she came home and took them. I think the not eating, dark circles, tired, missing her ballet, etc were clues something was going on with M. Maybe the stalking, maybe not being able to live like the rest of her friends with having to be home at 10 , maybe seeing the ex that day. Maybe she wasnt over him. Probably a combination of things. It just piled up on her. She probably had them in her medicine cabinet from when she stopped taking them.

Was it not stated somewhere that the Mom had found her old AMY bottle? I swear I can't find anything when i go back to look!!!! :banghead:

 

[LadyL]

TOD unknown, but she was pronounced at 8:15, so there was a couple of hours between her being found and first responders getting there.

so if mom found her at 5:30 (maybe an estimate - could have been 5:35), dad's attempting to resusitate her, maybe it takes 5 minutes during the panic to call, maybe it takes the paramedics 10-15 minutes to get there so that puts arrival time at about 5:50-6 a.m. ...

the EMT's would know right away but go through their standard procedures to be sure, then they call the hospital to ask a doc to give them permission to pronounce official death

would it take over 2 hours to pronounce her? I think not, right?

I'm trying to figure out how this makes sense ...

 

[Jean517]

From the time of the initial call until the victim is pronounced dead can be quite some time. EMS and LE get there and do their thing and it takes time before the official pronouncement is made. It is not an immediate thing. A doctor, coroner, Justice of the Peace or another qualified official has to make the call, no matter how obvious it may be.
I am a retired LE investigator and in my experience it is not unusual at all.

 

[nursebeeme]

so, did anyone else notice the possible promethazine in the gastric fluid? (that is phenergan)

it was inconclusive but I found it a little interesting myself. (well, more than a little interesting I must admit)

It is an anti-emetic that also has sedative effects (other words used for nausea generally) It's drug class is an antihistamine.

As for the fully dressed bit: I was really surprised by that and it doesn't fit with what I had taken away from previous blog comments and the radio interview.

 

[concernedmother]

From the time of the initial call until the victim is pronounced dead can be quite some time. EMS and LE get there and do their thing and it takes time before the official pronouncement is made. It is not an immediate thing. A doctor, coroner, Justice of the Peace or another qualified official has to make the call, no matter how obvious it may be.
I am a retired LE investigator and in my experience it is not unusual at all.

Well we sure are getting alot of stuff cleared up tonight.

 

[steff13]

I thought I had read somewhere that dad tried to resuscitate her when she was found. If that's the case, it makes even less sense to me why they waited to call 911. If they thought they might save her, certainly the EMTs would be better equipped to do so.

Mom said the EMTs were shocked when they saw Morgan. I wonder why? Based on the autopsy, she looked fairly normal.

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[Woe.be.gone]

I'm not convinced of suicide.

This report didn't change that much for me.

If I remember correctly she had 10mg and 25mg pills in her old bottles.

I find it hard to believe that petite girl popped at least 18 pills on an empty stomach and didn't throw it up.

That's just me.

Speaking of things I'd expect to find (like throw up) when someone dies from an overdose ~ and I apologize in advance for the delicate nature of this question about body fluids. When people die, do we not automatically dispel fluids from our bodies? How could there not have been any fluids at the scene?

 

[gitana1]

Anyone else find it really odd that she was fully clothed? (But I would never, ever sleep in anything except pajamas so maybe I'm giving this too much emphasis.)

I don;t think she intended to go to sleep like most of us do.

So the drugs listed in the gastric contents (or blood)...do they come in pills/capsules that are yellow and orange?

Yes.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/amitriptyline-perphenazine

http://www.pharmer.org/images/foreign/amitriptyline-25

ETA: Both of those pills are 25 milligram Ami.s

 

[polly1]

The ME also mentioned her fingernails, and doesn't say that any were cut.

Anyway, her last texts would give us an idea if she went to bed or stayed up texting someone. She could have still been clothed.

I was wondering if the time lapse, and therefore the time for lividity to set in while she was on her back, wasn't used by the parents to clean up. That's often the case in suicides. The family doesn't want embarrassing items found, or whatever. They call other family members. Gather their mental fortitude to deal with what lies ahead, etc. It would also explain why mom's initial reaction on finding M was not of murder, despite the stalking. If there was a note or other sign left by M, mom wouldn't question the COD until it was suggested later.

Just my opinion, but it would fit well with the autopsy findings.

Thanks for bringing that up again. I think I mentioned the parents cleaning up vomit in thread #3. It would be totally understandable. How tragic for them to find their daughter-if suicide, which it seems-in such a state. Oh, I feel so sad for them! But for a long time I've believed they cleaned up Morgan, rest her soul.

 

[steff13]

I wonder if the outfit she was found in was the same one she had worn that day?

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[Woe.be.gone]

so, did anyone else notice the possible promethazine in the gastric fluid? (that is phenergan)

it was inconclusive but I found it a little interesting myself. (well, more than a little interesting I must admit)

It is an anti-emetic that also has sedative effects (other words used for nausea generally) It's drug class is an antihistamine.

As for the fully dressed bit: I was really surprised by that and it doesn't fit with what I had taken away from previous blog comments and the radio interview.

nursebeeme, please speak English! What is phenergan? What does it indicate to the learned? It's an antihistamine?

 

[LadyL]

But with it possibly being not as massive of a dose as we believed imo that does in a sense reopen the possibility of using liquid ami which locals vets have confirmed they carry as well as even sell over the counter pper se..opens the door about the known easy access to the horse meds at the ranch..meds that were actually kept in the same office as the person we know who works there..in now learning the dose that killed her wasnt some massive amount imo it once again puts the option on the table for liquid ami to have come from the ranch where there is no restrictions from accessing the chest and refrigerator of meds for the horses...
Just sayin.

[bbm]

link please

 

[Meri]

If I remember correctly TI said Morgan was in her PJ's on the show. JMO My memory is not that great.

That's what I thought! She said jammies, right?

 

[MayraMM]

so, did anyone else notice the possible promethazine in the gastric fluid? (that is phenergan)

it was inconclusive but I found it a little interesting myself. (well, more than a little interesting I must admit)

It is an anti-emetic that also has sedative effects (other words used for nausea generally) It's drug class is an antihistamine.

As for the fully dressed bit: I was really surprised by that and it doesn't fit with what I had taken away from previous blog comments and the radio interview.

I took that to mean she had done her research and had taken the phen so she wouldn't vomit. Could have gotten it at the grandmother's house that night.

As for the fully dressed, I've heard of families dressing their loved ones, not wanting them found nude or in pajamas or whatever.

 

[Cazzie]

No, I highly doubt they are horse trails...those trails would be wider, and they wouldn't take the horses thru backyards. Plus what TI said about the fence (plus ditch or whatever) dividing the subdivision from the horse ranch.

Pretty sure the riding areas and trails are definitely not the tiny trails on the berm.

We haven't heard anything about Morgan's life at the stables. How often did she go see TC? Did she feed her horse every day or do the stable peeps do that as you pay a boarding fee. Did the stable owners notice any drugs missing or were they that loosely regulated that anyone could access them. Did the amount used have to be signed out indicating which horse needed the drug?

It's hard to believe drugs like that are so loosely guarded when many people would have access to them. Geesh.

The other day, I also wondered if the trails in the berm could be caused by horseback riders cutting through to ?. Is that even possible?
It looks like some peeps have fences with more yard beyond their fences so it wouldn't be like trotting your horse through someone's backyard in order to take a shortcut.

 

[Confusion]

Was it not stated somewhere that the Mom had found her old AMY bottle? I swear I can't find anything when i go back to look!!!! :banghead:

It was stated that the EMT checked out the pills in her prescription bottle/s and they were all accounted for. Of course, that doesn't mean that she had been taking them as prescribed before she quit taking them completely; I recently went through my "med drawer" and got rid of the partial bottles I had left from previous years. I had a hard time in the past being "medically compliant" and actually threw away over 30 bottles, some full, some partially full; I'm sure it was at least 500 pills that were in there, not counting my current prescriptions that I kept - and do take as prescribed now! Not everybody is like me, luckily, but she could have actually just added old prescriptions to the new bottles when she got them; I'm not sure there's any way to know for sure if ALL pills were really accounted for. MOO

 

[marycarney]

Speaking of things I'd expect to find (like throw up) when someone dies from an overdose ~ and I apologize in advance for the delicate nature of this question about body fluids. When people die, do we not automatically dispel fluids from our bodies? How could there not have been any fluids at the scene?

When a person dies (and I've been there WAY too many times) they might or might not empty their bladder. Depending on how full it is. The may evacuate their bowels. Vomiting because of fewer than 20 pills? Probably not.

Shoot, I know adults who take that many a couple times a day.

It is completely within the range of normal that no fluids were expelled.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

so, did anyone else notice the possible promethazine in the gastric fluid? (that is phenergan)

it was inconclusive but I found it a little interesting myself. (well, more than a little interesting I must admit)

It is an anti-emetic that also has sedative effects (other words used for nausea generally) It's drug class is an antihistamine.

As for the fully dressed bit: I was really surprised by that and it doesn't fit with what I had taken away from previous blog comments and the radio interview.

Agreed.....and something I mentioned many posts ago......