CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #5

[mysterygirl]

Yes I've read Phenergan several times when I was looking up date rape cocktails.

 

[MayraMM]

Thanks. Now how would she know to take that too?
This causes me to question if the dose of the main killing drug was administed by someone who researched and wanted it to stay down.

What do you think?

She could just as easily researched it herself. Look how easy it was for us to find that cocktail, on wiki no less, with the suggestion of taking an antiemetic with the cocktail.

 

[concernedmother]

In the bleakness of the report, this detail stood out

I don't think there's a mystery here, only a tragedy.

I hope the Ingrams find the answers they are looking for though -- and if not answers, peace.

I feel the same way. Its left me feeling really sad for them because they are in so much pain and Im not sure they will ever accept this. This was there baby girl and they probably will never understand what happened. Its easier when nothing makes sense to look for someone to blame. Its a tragedy all around.

 

[mysterygirl]

Thanks. Now how would she know to take that too?
This causes me to question if the dose of the main killing drug was administed by someone who researched and wanted it to stay down.

What do you think?

I think we would find some research on her computer.

I think it's odd she made a date/breakfast for the morning and then killed herself and no pill fragments.

I think it's odd she was fully dressed.

It just doesn't feel right to me...........I'm probably the only one...........lol....but I'm not convinced. I'm just not.

 

[Jean517]

in your experience, would it be normal for EMS to contact the doctor and get permission to pronounce WITHOUT LE there? or is it law for LE to be present when a person is pronounced?

It's not law. Different jurisdictions have different policies. If an elderly sick person was expected to pass away LE might not be called at all.
In the case of a young person I would definitely expect LE to be called. We would have taken custody of any medications, photographed the scene, etc. My city had a Justice of the Peace who usually pronounced if a doctor wouldn't. If the JP was called, we were there. The JP would then order an autopsy and the funeral home would come and transport to the ME's office.
In most cases of unexpected deaths we would have someone there to take photographs at the autopsy, especially if there had been prior reports of stalking.
I doubt those reports and photos will ever be released to the public.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

My take: She either came home drugged up or she left and came back drugged up. Okay: CONFESSION TIME: I used to drink and drug a lot. There were many nights I came home too drunk to change into my night clothes. I didn't even take off my earrings. Just passed out.
I'm sorry, so sorry for this possibility, and liklihood, but I think this might be the reason for the clothes on M. the night she died. God rest her soul.

Thanks for the honesty. But did you take crazy combinations such as this one? Back in my day we had ludes combined with drinking - dangerous. Oh angel dust could be dangerous too. Coke combined with drinking. Pot and hallucinogens but is it a new trend to take this type of a combination? If you were attempting to kill yourself, how would you know to take a stomach settler type drug? Seems pretty out there to me but what do I know?

 

[polly1]

She was tired, she was drugged, she was drinking----I repeat: I did it all the time when I was her age. There is nothing suspicious about falling asleep in your clothes--

 

[raine1212]

Did I see guaifenesin too? Or did I imagine that?

You don't find it odd that with the exception of elavil, there is no other sign of any of those other drugs available in her location?

Yes u did..found in robatusimm dm

 

[shellbee]

so, did anyone else notice the possible promethazine in the gastric fluid? (that is phenergan)

it was inconclusive but I found it a little interesting myself. (well, more than a little interesting I must admit)

It is an that also has sedative effects (other words used for nausea generally) It's drug class is an antihistamine.

As for the fully dressed bit: I was really surprised by that and it doesn't fit with what I had taken away from previous blog comments and the radio interview.

WOW!!!! Didn't someone post a link to a website with an ami suicide recipe. I remember reading it. The writer wrote a good deal about the recipe needing an antiemetic for better results.

 

[Confusion]

Did I see guaifenesin too? Or did I imagine that?

You don't find it odd that with the exception of elavil, there is no other sign of any of those other drugs available in her location?

I had wondered about that when we were first talking about drug interactions. She did say that she was coughing and thought she was coming down with a cold. The autopsy also mentioned congestion more than once. I don't find it surprising that she may have taken an expectorant/decongestant.

 

[mysterygirl]

She was tired, she was drugged, she was drinking----I repeat: I did it all the time when I was her age. There is nothing suspicious about falling asleep in your clothes--

No ETOH on tox

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think we would find some research on her computer.

I think it's odd she made a date/breakfast for the morning and then killed herself and no pill fragments.

I think it's odd she was fully dressed.

It just doesn't feel right to me...........I'm probably the only one...........lol....but I'm not convinced. I'm just not.

That's what I'm wondering. Because if LE did find searches related to that, then that may be why they drew the conclusions they did. But wouldn't they have pointed that out to T and S? Or they'd see it themselves as well.

 

[polly1]

Thanks for the honesty. But did you take crazy combinations such as this one? Back in my day we had ludes combined with drinking - dangerous. Oh angel dust could be dangerous too. Coke combined with drinking. Pot and hallucinogens but is it a new trend to take this type of a combination? If you were attempting to kill yourself, how would you know to take a stomach settler type drug? Seems pretty out there to me but what do I know?

Sorry, I must have a slow upload. Overlapping! Um, would I do that mix? No. I just did pot and drink. And still passed out in my clothes. I guess I'm just trying to assauge those who think sleeping in one's clothes is suspicious. Trying to help out with the realities of today. And yes, yesterday!:blushing:

 

[SmoothOperator]

[bbm]

link please

Via mobile at the moment so unable to do the search funtion on Ws but when have time later this evening will post the link to the individual who shared this info..a local take it fwiw you may choose to believe it or not..

With some particulars its the total sum of these exact type details that come to light..tho, again strictly take it fwiw and Im being comletely upfront from where this info in particular came from..i certainly do not claim it to be a written in stone fact..i believe the majority of us can appreciate certain details or info exactly fwiw and for some that may be worth zilch..

To each their own.

 

[MayraMM]

If you type in "How much amitriptylin do you have to take to overdose", the 3rd result is the ami cocktail.

If LE took her comp and checked her web browser history, they could have found that, which would then have given them more reason not to suspect foul play.

 

[OtherEyes]

I've been going nuts trying to find where I had read about the video from the night she died. and I've had absolutely no luck. Since I can't find a link for it and it's too late to edit my own post, is there a way to have the comment removed by someone else? If so, who would I contact about it? TIA

The video was mentioned in the radio blog-cast. About 86:43 to 87:20. TI states that LE took the DVR of the video cameras because the Ingrams didn't have it in them to look at the tapes due to their grief. After 2 or 3 months when TI asked if they had found anything on them(for the last couple of days before M died), LE told her they didn't have time to look through them! :dohNeedless to say she asked for them back!)

I can't even imagine how upset I would be if that had been me! That IMO shows that they were not interested in doing anything more with this case. They didn't even bother to see if anyone was caught on camera that night she died.
At 87:29 TI states that her and SI actually do see someone running from the back of the house to the front of the house and ducking behind their neighbors car in the middle of the night the same night she was killed!
It's not clear if the I's showed this to LE at that time, but my goodness, you would think that would be enough to take a better look at possible homicide?



http://my.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2012/09/17/websleuths-radio

 

[concernedmother]

I think we would find some research on her computer.

I think it's odd she made a date/breakfast for the morning and then killed herself and no pill fragments.

I think it's odd she was fully dressed.

It just doesn't feel right to me...........I'm probably the only one...........lol....but I'm not convinced. I'm just not.

We dont know the relationship she had with the old BF tho. Was she in love with him? Was she over him? Maybe she did like the new guy and wanted to move on but old BF arrives and sets those feelings off. She went by where he was after she left new bf and he didnt come out and talk to her. Maybe she went home and got to thinking about it and with eveything else in her life going on decided to end it all. She had been not feeling well the last couple of weeks too. And when you are tired you are more emotional.I guess we will never know the reason why if she never left a note behind or any clues.

 

[MayraMM]

That's what I'm wondering. Because if LE did find searches related to that, then that may be why they drew the conclusions they did. But wouldn't they have pointed that out to T and S? Or they'd see it themselves as well.

You beat me to it. It's possible they did tell T and/or S, who simply don't want to accept that. Better to hang on to the possibility that someone took their child from them, rather than their child chose to leave.

 

[gitana1]

I think the EMTs were there earlier, but from the Sheriff's Report, it sounds like the police themselves weren't informed until after she had been pronounced dead and they had done a check for drugs, etc.

I agree that he doesn't sound as unethical as he had been made to sound, but I'm still not 100% sure it was suicide. He did say that if there was any proof that someone else had been in the house, he'd change it to homicide. I just wish there was a way to know without a doubt that she didn't have the drugs in her system, or at least most of them, before she got home. It sounds like she was only home for about 1/2 hour or so before her parents went to bed. There's also still the possiblity that she had been given something that was supposed to help her sleep, but whoever mixed it (her or someone else) didn't know what they were doing. Accidental death by OD isn't totally unheard of.

BBM. Well, not quite. He stated:

If objective information is produced indicating that the decedent was somehow forced against her will to consume an Amitriptyline overdose and observed until incapacitated the manner of death may be reclassified as homicide.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8390401#post8390401"]****NO DISCUSSION****Morgan Ingram's Autopsy Report - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame] Emphasis mine.

I dont suppose there is any way to get a report from paramedic or LE about the scene that night? Pill bottles in M bathroom etc?

Yes. I think if someone wants to pay the fee, anyone may be able to get a copy of the police report from that day. Journalists do it and they have no special privilege.

That would be part of her medical record with EMS and likely HIPPA protected = except in the circumstance we discussed a thread back.

Well, no. It would actually be clearly stated in the police report with pill names and everything. It would be considered evidence. It is not a doctor giving that info out, it's LE finding evidence at the scene, so it is not HIPPA protected and we could find it out.

The corresponds with the math I did about a million years ago when I noticed the ng/mL, but everyone told me I was doing it wrong, so I assumed I was doing it wrong, too. Guess not.

It sure does. I totally remember that!

yes it was, CO has open public law
also i am typing in the dark again...lol...hubby in bed

Raine, you rock. I can't believe you did that for us - that you knew how to get that for us!!!

It was stated that the EMT checked out the pills in her prescription bottle/s and they were all accounted for. Of course, that doesn't mean that she had been taking them as prescribed before she quit taking them completely; I recently went through my "med drawer" and got rid of the partial bottles I had left from previous years. I had a hard time in the past being "medically compliant" and actually threw away over 30 bottles, some full, some partially full; I'm sure it was at least 500 pills that were in there, not counting my current prescriptions that I kept - and do take as prescribed now! Not everybody is like me, luckily, but she could have actually just added old prescriptions to the new bottles when she got them; I'm not sure there's any way to know for sure if ALL pills were really accounted for. MOO

I do not believe this is accurate at all, (I think you are recollecting it right but I don't think it's a fact). I think if we got the police report we would find that bottles of prescription pills were found in that bedroom and that the pills were not "all accounted for" as Ms. Ingram believes.

The only way it is possible for the EMTs to be able to do that is if the total amount of the prescriptions was there.

When a person dies (and I've been there WAY too many times) they might or might not empty their bladder. Depending on how full it is. The may evacuate their bowels. Vomiting because of fewer than 20 pills? Probably not.

Shoot, I know adults who take that many a couple times a day.

It is completely within the range of normal that no fluids were expelled.

Like AIDS patients, right?

http://hiv-aids-help.com/treatment-gives-hivs-long-term-survivors-hope-but-takes-a-toll.html

It is just untrue that a person intent on suicide could not take 18 pills more. It's just not true.

 

[mysterygirl]

Something still doesn't feel right.

And if there is someone caught on camera running that night............I'm really going to feel that something is up.