CO - Tim Watkins, 61, shot to death, Mount Herman, 14 Sept 2017 #2

[kizzykat]

There is the strange thing about her car in that LE was asking for tips and if anyone had seen it between 24th and 29th September like they didn't know where it was between those dates. She is still missing so whether suicide, accident or foul play we just don't know unless/until she is found.

I think about her often. The timing of her going missing, and location her car was found, it does give me chills.
I wonder about DN's attempted assault & trespass, IIRC those charges were dropped? I wonder if he trying to get into a woman's car while she was in it? Wouldn't that warrant a more serious charge, like attempted carjacking? Just thinking out loud, I'm very curious as to what he did that warranted those charges.

Details of the trespassing episode haven't been released, but it involves allegations of an attempted assault and criminal mischief, or damage to property, court records show. The trespassing count also alleges that Nations tried to break into an automobile.

Court records show the would-be attack came five days before the disappearance of Palmer Lake cyclist Timothy Watkins, who was last seen Sept. 14.
http://gazette.com/daniel-nations-in-court-additional-felony-count-delayed/article/1614061

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think about her often. The timing of her going missing, and location her car was found, it does give me chills.
I wonder about DN's attempted assault & trespass, IIRC those charges were dropped? I wonder if he trying to get into a woman's car while she was in it? Wouldn't that warrant a more serious charge, like attempted carjacking? Just thinking out loud, I'm very curious as to what he did that warranted those charges.

Details of the trespassing episode haven't been released, but it involves allegations of an attempted assault and criminal mischief, or damage to property, court records show. The trespassing count also alleges that Nations tried to break into an automobile.

Court records show the would-be attack came five days before the disappearance of Palmer Lake cyclist Timothy Watkins, who was last seen Sept. 14.
http://gazette.com/daniel-nations-in-court-additional-felony-count-delayed/article/1614061

Pure speculation on my part but I always think this could have been the choking incident mentioned by KN. It could also explain why the charges weren't pursued .

 

[kizzykat]

Pure speculation on my part but I always think this could have been the choking incident mentioned by KN. It could also explain why the charges weren't pursued .

That could be, I forgot about the choking. Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly, but this sentence from the Gazette link above makes be think the trespass occurred at the same time as the assault. That's what made me think it could've involved a stranger.
Details of the trespassing episode haven't been released, but it involves allegations of an attempted assault and criminal mischief, or damage to property, court records show. The trespassing count also alleges that Nations tried to break into an automobile.

 

[Shiressleuth]

That could be, I forgot about the choking. Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly, but this sentence from the Gazette link above makes be think the trespass occurred at the same time as the assault. That's what made me think it could've involved a stranger.
Details of the trespassing episode haven't been released, but it involves allegations of an attempted assault and criminal mischief, or damage to property, court records show. The trespassing count also alleges that Nations tried to break into an automobile.

Well it was her car so was her property and if she locked herself in to get away from him and he busted a window to get to her and attempted to choke her that could explain the broken window too and the reason she bought a gun for protection. That was my thinking. I cannot see anyone else being happy with the charges being dropped. If she knew he would get probation and be extradited she may have agreed for the charges to be dropped is what I was thinking. JMO.

 

[kkdj]

KN said

when they got to CO , DN lost all reason.

thats a pretty broad statement.." all reason".

she needs to give him up. MOO.

I think the fact that she even said that speaks volumes! Here the father of her children who she and her children were living homeless with has been named a POI in murders and she admits he lost all reason! I think she knows all kinds of things! I would love to hear her telling of what "he lost all reason" is referring to. I'm sure it's lots of things!

 

[minazoe]

There is the strange thing about her car in that LE was asking for tips and if anyone had seen it between 24th and 29th September like they didn't know where it was between those dates. She is still missing so whether suicide, accident or foul play we just don't know unless/until she is found.

depressed people get murdered too.

 

[foxbluff]

There is the strange thing about her car in that LE was asking for tips and if anyone had seen it between 24th and 29th September like they didn't know where it was between those dates. She is still missing so whether suicide, accident or foul play we just don't know unless/until she is found.

BBM - My current fear is that by the time they find her, they won't be able to determine the cause of death.

Then, for the "rest of her death" it'll be said, "Well, you know, she was inclined to depression..."

I think it's a disservice to this young woman life, and her death, not to suspect homicide. Moo

 

[foxbluff]

depressed people get murdered too.

Well put..thank you.

And then there was that imo disconcerting Celebration of Life Service..

 

[minazoe]

really uncool...no note? no nothing? nothing about the struggle, giving up, not wanting to go on etc..? she left her car, and thats it?

celebration of life?

concerning to say the least. MOO

 

[ElementalLaura]

He may not have been too successful but he may have been trying. And I'm not talking about more than 20 plants. Small enough he could tote a bucket of water and keep it hidden. I think it would have really appealed to him. He also could have been recruited to keep people away from getting too close to a larger operation. He may carry himself at times as a former Marine who people could think of as capable.

We might as well speculate about DN spending his time preparing landing pad for outerspace alien ships, because it's about as likely, IMO. Can you point to DN trying an illegal grow operation in Indiana, where the conditions would have more conducive to growing even a small crop? Being homeless, he would have had the perfect excuse for why he was hanging out there. Central Indiana provides good cropland. Having lived in central Indiana, I can vouch for the fact that "ditch weed" frequently grows in ditches and waterways without being maintained.

The type of people who are running illegal grows are not going to hire an itinerant homeless person who chases people around with a hatchet to guard the illegal grow, mainly because they want guards who don't draw LE attention to the area. Illegal grows, including some referenced in the links shared, tend to take place in buildings to provide controlled lighting, temperature and water distribution. JMO.

 

[Daey34]

I agree. The dirt in Colorado is terrible. The conditions on Mt. Herman are very heavily trafficked, rocky areas. I have not seen many outdoor illegal grows in the news. . Normally people who grow in Colorado utilize indoor lighting and constant water supplies. Weed gives off a small. Anymore than one or two plants IMO would be found quickly.

We might as well speculate about DN spending his time preparing landing pad for outerspace alien ships, because it's about as likely, IMO. Can you point to DN trying an illegal grow operation in Indiana, where the conditions would have more conducive to growing even a small crop? Being homeless, he would have had the perfect excuse for why he was hanging out there. Central Indiana provides good cropland. Having lived in central Indiana, I can vouch for the fact that "ditch weed" frequently grows in ditches and waterways without being maintained.

The type of people who are running illegal grows are not going to hire an itinerant homeless person who chases people around with a hatchet to guard the illegal grow, mainly because they want guards who don't draw LE attention to the area. Illegal grows, including some referenced in the links shared, tend to take place in buildings to provide controlled lighting, temperature and water distribution. JMO.

 

[Ember123]

I def don't see DN trying to grow anything. Seems far fetched to me. I doubt he has the money or patience for it. (But who knows?)

I sure hope LE has some very compelling reason to think ML may have committed suicide because otherwise I think it most unfair they seem to be chalking her disappearance up to depression/a likely suicide so quickly. WHAT??!! Half the ppl I know have depression but are living with it even so. Do you think she left telltale clues or a note and they've just not been made public?

Yes, this coming week has GOT to see DN being extradited! If it is going to happen it should happen now! (I know LE have many things they are juggling but can't help thinking that IF DN has any ties to the Delphi case as we oft suspect they are likely to want to haul his a$$ in front of the cameras and press in time for the anniversary of that horrible day.

Lastly, it seems social media has caused LE (not just in these cases but in general of late) to reveal less and withhold more. Yet I still question that. Doesn't LE feel an obligation to let the public know SOME things (in the cases of TW, ML, A&L, and others) so that the citizens in those areas whom LE is paid to protect can make a more educated decision as to whether it's safe to venture out into these areas for recreation again???

I mean sure, there are always risks, but wouldn't LE want to tip their hand even the slightest bit so the public could have a clue in assessing the current risks to themselves?

 

[Bill Carson]

I just want to reiterate that if TW's death had anything to do with an illegal marijuana grow, that I do not believe DN would be involved in that.

Again, let's not lose sight of the possibility that someone other than DN murdered TW.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I just want to reiterate that if TW's death had anything to do with an illegal marijuana grow, that I do not believe DN would be involved in that.

Again, let's not lose sight of the possibility that someone other than DN murdered TW.

I am of the opinion it could have been something to do with an illegal grow and it was being protected. We don't actually know exactly where he was found or even exactly where he was killed. Whether DN was involved or not in an employment capacity ( watering, guarding "I'm an ex marine" etc) is a possibility IMO. The other possibility is that it was an accidental shooting or the result of an altercation. As for these grows being seen there was an enormous one being grown on islands in the Co river in full view of the interstate for some time before it was busted so often they aren't reported for some reason.

If people are homeless can they still grow their alloted 6 /20 plants legally? As long as they are hidden from the public? Obviously that isn't allowed in Indiana is it?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I am of the opinion it could have been something to do with an illegal grow and it was being protected. We don't actually know exactly where he was found or even exactly where he was killed. Whether DN was involved or not in an employment capacity ( watering, guarding "I'm an ex marine" etc) is a possibility IMO. The other possibility is that it was an accidental shooting or the result of an altercation. As for these grows being seen there was an enormous one being grown on islands in the Co river in full view of the interstate for some time before it was busted so often they aren't reported for some reason.

If people are homeless can they still grow their alloted 6 /20 plants legally? As long as they are hidden from the public? Obviously that isn't allowed in Indiana is it?

IF DN had such a guarding job in CO then he might have had a similar job in Indiana. Guarding with a hatchet maybe a very stupid idea but after IN and Delphi (IF he is the killer) he hadn't much to lose at the end and he desperately would have known. Perhaps TW murder happened (IF it was DN) also only because of that: ultimately a thing of time DN would get interminably arrested (with the billboards all over 46 states).
IF he was guarding an illegal plantation in IN/Delphi then maybe the girls were unpleasantly noticed during their several visits to the area and their photographing all the time. Maybe the guard felt spied on himself, his accomplices and the plantation.
IF he was guarding an illegal plantation then maybe-maybe Libby's photos after all showed other persons/cars (some of us meant to have recognized under the MHB on the other bank or/and around trees).
What IF TW also had taken photos for some reason and DN, being on the run, felt threatened by that?

All IMO and only thinking about! :thinking:

ETA: Thinking of the different seasons, I'm not sure if it makes sense ...

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/19/pueblo-colorado-legal-marijuana-industry-migration

This article, although a few years old is quite interesting regarding the influx to Co - the 'pot rush' as it is called in the article.

 

[Shiressleuth]

IF DN had such a guarding job in CO then he might have had a similar job in Indiana. Guarding with a hatchet maybe a very stupid idea but after IN and Delphi (IF he is the killer) he hadn't much to lose at the end and he would have known. Perhaps TW murder happened (IF it was DN) also only because of that: ultimately a thing of time he would get interminably arrested (with the billboards all over 46 states).
IF he was guarding an illegal plantation in IN/Delphi then maybe the girls were unpleasantly noticed during their several visits to the area and their photographing all the time. Maybe the guard felt spied on himself, his accomplices and the plantation.
IF he was guarding an illegal plantation then maybe-maybe Libby's photos after all showed other persons/cars (some of us meant to have recognized under the MHB on the other bank or/and around trees). All IMO and only thinking about! :thinking:

ETA: Thinking of the season, I'm not sure if it makes sense ...

Maybe an indoor one in Deer Creek?
It is something to think about isn't it?

Somebody with PTSD would get a medical card right? Does that mean they can smoke (and grow) weed in jail?

 

[Daey34]

A medical card allows you to grow plants on your property, not public property. It also costs about $120 total to obtain it. You have to make a trip to the doctor and sign some paperwork. Most importantly, you have to have a Colorado ID and address to get a medical card. It does not allow you to be prescribed weed in jail, and obviously you cannot grow in jail

An outdoor illegal grow on an island is a lot different than one where people walk, bike, and horse ride. It would be really hard to carry buckets of water, and as I’ve said the plants wouldn’t most likely smell and be found. IMO.

Maybe an indoor one in Deer Creek?
It is something to think about isn't it?

Somebody with PTSD would get a medical card right? Does that mean they can smoke (and grow) weed in jail?

 

[kizzykat]

An outdoor illegal grow on an island is a lot different than one where people walk, bike, and horse ride. It would be really hard to carry buckets of water, and as I’ve said the plants wouldn’t most likely smell and be found. IMO.

RSBM

I respect your opinion and don't disagree with any of this re: outdoor growing. My thoughts on it are that DN, not being a CO native, wouldn't necessarily know these things in advance. Maybe he'd just bury some seeds in the dirt in different places (that he thought were out of the way) and hope for small patch(es) of success. Not even necessarily for quick cash, could've been for his own use, since weed costs $ and they were broke. The only reason I even look at that angle is because we know how he liked his weed and because of the hatchet threats and chasing down kids and adults, which strikes me as aggressively territorial, guarding type behavior. OTOH, he did have an escalating crime spree going in CO, maybe IF he did commit any of these murders the menacing was because he was coming completely unhinged. Just my humble .02.

 

[ocgrad]

IF DN had such a guarding job in CO then he might have had a similar job in Indiana. Guarding with a hatchet maybe a very stupid idea but after IN and Delphi (IF he is the killer) he hadn't much to lose at the end and he desperately would have known. Perhaps TW murder happened (IF it was DN) also only because of that: ultimately a thing of time DN would get interminably arrested (with the billboards all over 46 states).
IF he was guarding an illegal plantation in IN/Delphi then maybe the girls were unpleasantly noticed during their several visits to the area and their photographing all the time. Maybe the guard felt spied on himself, his accomplices and the plantation.
IF he was guarding an illegal plantation then maybe-maybe Libby's photos after all showed other persons/cars (some of us meant to have recognized under the MHB on the other bank or/and around trees).
What IF TW also had taken photos for some reason and DN, being on the run, felt threatened by that?

All IMO and only thinking about! :thinking:

ETA: Thinking of the different seasons, I'm not sure if it makes sense ...

I think if he were involved in guarding anything in IN it would be a meth lab, they use guards, and I think its possible he had a gun in IN. It makes sense he would have had one before the DM conviction. It could have been as simple as someone cooking meth or doing meth down by the creek or under the bridge and he was asked to keep people away. He has a hair trigger so he isn't the guy you would want guarding but someone wouldn't know that until something bad happened.
As for him guarding some plants growing around MTH, I don't think he would have been working for a large scale grower like some of the busts we have read about because they have used all Mexican nationals, however do they bring on more people positioned farther out from the grow as they begin to harvest? And as they have said, there are way way more illegal grows out there than they have the manpower even to remove much less find in the first place. Daniel spent some time in jail in IN and then was in a pre trial diversion program where he had to go and be tested every month in 2 jurisdictions so he stayed clean for a few months, through Feb. I think he saw legal pot as a solution to his problems, no longer having to abstain and no longer getting busted. That must be the idea of a lot of CO homeless campers. So what to do when you don't have money to buy? And it's legal to grow if you have property, but you don't have property and you know a lot of it is being grown all around you? I don't think it's extreme to think he would have been inclined to try a few plants and if so I think they would have taken on extreme importance to him. But did he think TW was about to see it or bust him in some way? It's impossible to say since we don't know where he was. Could he have gone down a new trail he was just trying to develop that the grower thought wouldnt get much traffic? I imagine growing near a popular trail area is really only problematic in Sept as the plants reach maturity and must be harvested. As mentioned he may have been busted exposing himself. I saw online that TW did have a cellphone. So was he going to call LE? Or did DN ask him for money or cigarettes and didn't like TW response? Like the early reports we heard of someone on the MHB trail. Or did he get irritated having to drive slowly behind him going up MHR and was desperate for a DL so between his anger and his need he lost all reason?