Cocoamom Theory #2

[SleuthyMama]

I found some texts between AH and KC about the stoarge unit. AH asked KC on 6/25 to go to the storage unit with her that saturday (6/28). Why would they need to go the storage unit?
Is it possible that KC had disposed of Caylee there and had to move her (possibly on 6/27) before AH went to the unit that saturday?


First initials are who received the text message; second initials are who sent the text message

KC AH I’ll do it tom. . . I'm lazy now.

AH KC 06/25 9:08 PM Me too!

KC AH On Sat want to go to storage with me to make a game plan?

AH KC 06/25 9:09 PM What time Saturday?

Bolded by me. Wouldn't this have been when they were planning on moving in together? It's at this point that Amy is changing her address to the Hopespring address because she thinks (according to KC) that she is getting the house and they are going to move in together. That is what I think the trip to the storage unit is about...like a "let's get a game plan of what stuff of mine I should bring to the house" kind of thing.

And Cocoamom, you are beyond amazing. I think the time, effort and energy you have put into your theories and actual sleuthing you and Floridakatz have done is incredible. Keep up the good work.

I can see some parts of this new theory as plausible but others don't ring true for me. I do believe the A's know more than they are saying but I don't think either Cindy or George actually ever saw a dead Caylee. Lee, possibly but I'm not sure of the logistics of it yet. I just think that if George was involved in getting rid of the body I would have hoped as former LE he would have done a much better job than he did. He could have torched the car or made sure it didn't get found or at least gotten rid of more evidence from the trunk.

 

[Whisperer]

I think he had to leave everything in the trunk that he thought was seen by towing company......same as CA did with the interior....that was why she washed things and handed them over. Anything that was in the car at the tow yard HAD to be turned over or they could be charged and that was the reason Cindy gave the knife and clothes back. If the body were concealed in the wheel well under the liner, the towing place would not have seen it. It may have been tightly wrapped for a long time and smell festered after sitting so long in the sun, thus accounting for the fumes remaining as of today. This smell certainly should have been gone, after all this time, if the body was only there for a brief time.

 

[redtailhawk]

I found some texts between AH and KC about the stoarge unit. AH asked KC on 6/25 to go to the storage unit with her that saturday (6/28). Why would they need to go the storage unit?

Is it possible that KC had disposed of Caylee there and had to move her (possibly on 6/27) before AH went to the unit that saturday?


First initials are who received the text message; second initials are who sent the text message

KC AH I’ll do it tom. . . I'm lazy now.

AH KC 06/25 9:08 PM Me too!

KC AH On Sat want to go to storage with me to make a game plan?

AH KC 06/25 9:09 PM What time Saturday?

Tres Bien!

 

[maza]

cocoamom- amazing work. thank you.

as for some the first two weeks of drugging caylee and partying, it may not have been every day of those two weeks; but i would think that a child being drugged could easily fall into a state of semi-consiousness for days at a time (and therefore would not be heard crying by anyone). i also think that Annie's statement and role maybe be a missing piece to that puzzle.

 

[Whisperer]

Per Cocoamom's request I am bringing this over here.

A good case could be made for the body still being in the car on July 15.

Why didn't she get rid of all of the evidence if and when she disposed of body

1. A bag left in car with decomp on it...why wasn't it thrown away?
2. Mama doll unclothed still in car...A crucial piece of evidence.
3. Caylee's backpack...should have been disposed...but was in the car.
4. kc clothes she wore that day of murder which I bet she couldn't stand to think of anymore, tossed in back seat.


This is a very disorganized crime scene. Leads me to believe she was not clever at all.

IMO (at least for now) there is a good chance, Caylee was secreted in the wheel well (spare tire compartment) and remained there till July15.

Regarding EPasses:
I have GA's car leaving at 2:30pm getting on too hwy and exiting at Beline. At 5:30, the car enters toll hwy at Beline and exits at Goldenrod. Andrews Int'l is located near Universal Studios. Goldenrod is close to home. Andrews is about 8 mi from their house using toll road. The car was close to home at 5:30pm.

Now, we do not know whether he came home and stayed or took off again or was assigned another area of town. He did not get back on the toll hwy that night....seems odd to take streets all the way to work to Universal, though.

I have since read that GA was working at Fashion Square Mall on the 15th...I do not know the location and can't look it up because I must leave now and won't be back till late.

 

[redtailhawk]

Is there any reason to suspect she may have also been using AH's public storage unit for anything?

I really think so. What if the key that was "destroyed" by LA was not a key to the totaled car........

but a key to the storage unit.

I think this everytime I hear about that car key.

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Wouldn't there be some evidence from the wheel well from LE by now that they found decomp in that part of the trunk, too??

 

[maza]

maybe i'm whacked but i don't think it would that hard to live in a car and hide a young child for 2 or more weeks. it is amazing what humans can survive. people have survived being buried in an earthquake for 8 days with no food, no water. maybe the child was only put in the trunk when absolutely necessary. the rest of the time, drugged, with a window cracked, passed out in the back seat, car parked in the shade. same with the storage unit - a lot of them have electricity, so a fan could have been used or whatever.

 

[Advocate4]

I just had a couple of thoughts about Caylee being put in the trunk, so throwing them into the mix:

1. Suppose KC put Caylee in the trunk because she was angry with her about something (Caylee crying, etc.) and went driving around for a while. The A/C was on in the car, so it wasn't going to be too hot for Caylee there (I'm guessing). And Caylee falls asleep after a little bit, so KC decides to just let her sleep while she (KC) goes to do something (shop, whatever). She leaves the car running to keep the A/C on. Somewhere along the way, Caylee dies from carbon monoxide poisoning (closed up car, proximity due to being in the trunk).

2. Or suppose KC was in fact putting Caylee in the trunk only at night, still leaving the car running and A/C on to keep Caylee pretty comfortable, and again, Caylee succumbs to carbon monoxide poisoning.

Leaving the car running to keep A/C on might explain why KC was running out of gas -- she may have thought the car wouldn't use much gas just sitting there running.

 

[Salome]

It also doesn't seem likely to me that KC would risk her being found alive in the trunk. She would have to give her a lot of something to ensure her sleeping through the night. If she did wake up and start to cry, somebody might hear her. I just don't see KC taking that risk. I also don't think she could go out and party like she did and not worry that someone might hear Caylee in the trunk. Those photos taken of her at the club show a girl who didn't have a care in the world.

I agree. TonE lived in an apartment complex, right? I don't think it's possible that a child left in a trunk (even if sedated) would not scream and cry from time to time. The sedation would have to wear off (if she was sedated). Someone would have heard knocks, kicks, cries, moans, screaming in that parking lot.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

Hey Sooner!

GA was at work, he talked to CA and knew KC had been found without Caylee, he called Lee to hurry over to house. G knew C was on the warpath, hoped Lee could calm everyone down.

Re: money fraud, Lee spoke on line with someone wanting to donate money for Caylee, the donor was having trouble with the acct set up for this purpose. Lee gave his PayPal acct number and the person sent the money to his acct. The total was less than $50.00 and the funds were still sitting there when MN stepped in and reviewed the whole accounting system.

I think it's possible that Lee doesn't buy the whole horse and pony show his folks are putting on. Rather than cause them anymore stress, he is staying out of the way. I hope the stories circulating a few weeks ago about Lee and Mallory aren't true, with all of G & C's energy being put into Caylee and KC, he needs support too.

Hi there Missmybaby! I think you may be right about the GA being at work, heck we've all been to he** and back with this family.

As far as LA, we had/have a HUGE thread about his involvment and the follow the money trail but we are not to talk about it. :bang: If ya don't hear from me for a while, I'll be back after TO

 

[TxMother67]

Okay, after reading Cocoa's theory and thinking back to all that has transpired so far, I stick with my gut feeling that GA and CA did not find Caylee's body. However, I do believe that they are guilty of a coverup. Especially when it comes to the car. I think that a major cleanup job was done in that trunk. They may not have removed any trash or whatnot, but I believe that someone worked on that stain. IIRC there would be no way that CA would know about the pizza box in the trunk because GA was the one who was with SB at the car. CA was either still in the office or had already left. She was already at home and waiting for GA when he got there. So unless he told her once he got home about the pizza box, she would not have known about it. I also believe that LA did clean out that computer. Why else was gone for so long that night? There may be other things that LA knows that could implicate him or someone else. Other than the coverup for their daughter, the only other thing that I believe that CA and GA are guilty of in this particular case is denial.

I also agree with other posters here that there is no way that Caylee could have been left in that car for that long period of time without someone hearing her or without her dying. No one saw her after the 15th. Not during the day or the night. In my opinion, Caylee died on the 16th. I do believe that KC was drugging her beforehand, however, I think that the trunk deal only happened after she began seeing TL. According to Amy, KC would lay Caylee on the couch at their place. So while she was hanging with this group, who didn't mind Caylee being there, she could let her sleep there. But once she became serious with TL and she and CA were on the outs due to their fight, that's when she started to use the trunk as Caylee's bed.

One more point, TL did say that every time KC would talk on her phone to her mom she would go outside. I don't think that it was to check on Caylee or her car. I believe that it was so she could tell CA all those elaborate lies about her being in Tampa, the nanny's accident, staying with Jeff, etc. She could have never got by with telling all that in front of anyone else.

Great post!:clap::clap:

 

[Amil]

Hey Sooner!

GA was at work, he talked to CA and knew KC had been found without Caylee, he called Lee to hurry over to house. G knew C was on the warpath, hoped Lee could calm everyone down.

E-pass records don't show George at work on 7/15.

 

[TripleA]

I found some texts between AH and KC about the stoarge unit. AH asked KC on 6/25 to go to the storage unit with her that saturday (6/28). Why would they need to go the storage unit?

Is it possible that KC had disposed of Caylee there and had to move her (possibly on 6/27) before AH went to the unit that saturday?


First initials are who received the text message; second initials are who sent the text message

KC AH I’ll do it tom. . . I'm lazy now.

AH KC 06/25 9:08 PM Me too!

KC AH On Sat want to go to storage with me to make a game plan?

AH KC 06/25 9:09 PM What time Saturday?

I actually stated this same thing awhile ago when the text documents came out. I think it is entirely possible. Don't storage units have cameras though?

 

[FloridaKatz]

I actually stated this same thing awhile ago when the text documents came out. I think it is entirely possible. Don't storage units have cameras though?

Yes they usually do, however it depends on the company. If it's a prominant business like "Public Storage" then they do. The smaller mom and pop ones may not.

 

[Whisperer]

Wouldn't there be some evidence from the wheel well from LE by now that they found decomp in that part of the trunk, too??

Good Point.. something should have been there if she was not in a container. I guess it would depend on the wrapping. Kc did not appear too organized in this...so maybe I am wrong. Maybe she did dispose earlier and just left everything sit in there.

Here is my current theory. I believe Caylee died on the 16th.

At appr. 2.6 days after death, Caylee was either in trunk unsecured or laying in the back yard, maybe the sandbox. KC removed the toys from the sandbox on the first day and placed them in the blue crate in her trunk.

She borrowed a shovel from the neighbor to lift body up from the sandbox and onto dirt and then she rolled it onto the plastic...kc did not want to touch body. She may have then rolled her into rug or blanket and into a duffle bag and placed it in the wheel well. She needed to think quickly.

After she secured Caylee in the car, she then took the toys out of her trunk(blue crate) and returned them to the sandbox.

Kc avoided the car as much as she could during the next 2 weeks. She made excuses of running out of gas. Put no effort into cleaning up any details. It is at this point where it gets murky...did she dispose of her right away or leave her in the trunk?

My reasoning (at the moment) is she left her and everything in the car and was simply avoiding what had to be done. I am basing this on the facts of the odor still remaining in the car after 5 months.....and that is w/o the lining in it.

I am amazed they only have one hair from root. The trunk was thoroughly cleaned before taken and I do not think kc cleaned it. GA is a detail man, I am convinced he went over the trunk with a fine tooth comb. He may have discovered the body but it was packaged. He may have gladly complied with CA's request "go to work". He may have disposed of package on route. If so,I do not think it was sinister.....he did this to protect Cindy.

There is a possibility that she was planning on cleaning and disposing AFTER TL left town.....but it was interrupted. I also think she have teetered with the thought of setting the car on fire.

Not the Nanny, you're point is well taken and I may have to adjust my theory and say she disposed earlier but I can't understand why she didn't get rid of everything at the same time...oh well...People in these situations always defy logic. :waitasec:

 

[MsMacGyver]

I went back and read LA interview and the key LA got rid of was to AH new car. Maybe AH had a key made for KC when AH went to PR and KC was driving AH car. Ah called LA early morning on June 16th and asked about it and LA said don't worry, I already took care of it.

 

[MsMacGyver]

Just my opinion but GA just doesn't seem like he could/would dispose of his grandaughter. Due to the relationships we have seen in this family if anyone knows anything besides KC I think it has to be CA or LA. CA always seems to tell GA to leave and she will take care of things and I think this is what she did on the July 15th which is why GA went back to work. I think CA would do alot of things for KC but GA just wouldn't go so far as to hide Caylees body. It's possible that KC did this on her own as some kind of control issue with her family. Only she knows where Caylee is at and she is somehow enjoying the torcher she is putting her family through, some sort of payback for all the control CA has had over her for so long. CA is the one that made KC keep the baby which went against all that KC wanted for herself.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

E-pass records don't show George at work on 7/15.

IIRC they epass showed him on 417 that evening.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I went back and read LA interview and the key LA got rid of was to AH new car. Maybe AH had a key made for KC when AH went to PR and KC was driving AH car. Ah called LA early morning on June 16th and asked about it and LA said don't worry, I already took care of it.

Where did you find that? I thought he "threw away" the key - which the way I read it was to the wrecked car.