Coincidences

[joeskidbeck]

Dave- Don't know how in the world I missed your tunes, but I wish someone here would actually put them to the music and record them (just for us, of course)

Eileenhawkeye- I know it was my post that started the (heck, I don't even know what you would call it). I finally got to post what I meant by what I said though. But here's another one of my thoughts. This one's about all the thousands of parents that don't go on tv and fight for children's rights, etc. There are actually three reasons.
1- Their cases never made the national coverage like the ones we hear about daily so most have never heard of these people
2- They do not have the money that the Ramseys and others do to go around the country promoting their child's death and changes to law (expensive, that is)

And finally, last and certainly not LEAST

3- They murdered their own children and have nothing to gain, unless of course, they have lots of money to buy their way out of murder charges.

Anyone who knows that I missed an important reason for all these parents, please feel free to chime in any time. I know these can't be the only reasons.
Let me say this though as I know someone is going to say "but Becky, look at Samantha Runnion's mom. She was a single mother with no money, but she did all these tv appearances and trips to Washington, etc. Here's the deal and the thing that makes me maddest of all. If the murdered child is a beautiful little white girl, the press and media will cover it till the end of time. If not, oh well, a one inch column on page 8 will suffice.
Sorry guys, this is another of my pet peeves. A child is a child and they are ALL precious. No single one deserves more attention than another, in life and especially after they are murdered.
:rant:

 

[joeskidbeck]

Something I just said sounded really bad when I just read it back. Let me make something perfectly clear. There has never been a case that touched me like that of Samantha Runnion, no not even this one. But the pedophile is on death row where he belongs. Small comfort to Samantha's mom, but better than the alternative.
I meant no disrespect at all by saying she got the coverage because she was a beautiful little white girl. If she hadn't been, I probably would never have heard of her. I hope you all know what I meant. Every murdered child should get equal coverage from the MSM. That way, any parent that feels the need to take a stand will have the opportunity. I'm really off the rant now, I promise.

 

[BBB167893]

Dave- Don't know how in the world I missed your tunes, but I wish someone here would actually put them to the music and record them (just for us, of course)

If only I knew how, Beck.

Eileenhawkeye- I know it was my post that started the (heck, I don't even know what you would call it). I finally got to post what I meant by what I said though. But here's another one of my thoughts. This one's about all the thousands of parents that don't go on tv and fight for children's rights, etc. There are actually three reasons.
1- Their cases never made the national coverage like the ones we hear about daily so most have never heard of these people
2- They do not have the money that the Ramseys and others do to go around the country promoting their child's death and changes to law (expensive, that is)

And finally, last and certainly not LEAST

3- They murdered their own children and have nothing to gain, unless of course, they have lots of money to buy their way out of murder charges.

Anyone who knows that I missed an important reason for all these parents, please feel free to chime in any time. I know these can't be the only reasons.
Let me say this though as I know someone is going to say "but Becky, look at Samantha Runnion's mom. She was a single mother with no money, but she did all these tv appearances and trips to Washington, etc. Here's the deal and the thing that makes me maddest of all. If the murdered child is a beautiful little white girl, the press and media will cover it till the end of time. If not, oh well, a one inch column on page 8 will suffice.
Sorry guys, this is another of my pet peeves. A child is a child and they are ALL precious. No single one deserves more attention than another, in life and especially after they are murdered.
:rant:

Agreed.

 

[DeeDee249]

Dave- Don't know how in the world I missed your tunes, but I wish someone here would actually put them to the music and record them (just for us, of course)

Eileenhawkeye- I know it was my post that started the (heck, I don't even know what you would call it). I finally got to post what I meant by what I said though. But here's another one of my thoughts. This one's about all the thousands of parents that don't go on tv and fight for children's rights, etc. There are actually three reasons.
1- Their cases never made the national coverage like the ones we hear about daily so most have never heard of these people
2- They do not have the money that the Ramseys and others do to go around the country promoting their child's death and changes to law (expensive, that is)

And finally, last and certainly not LEAST

3- They murdered their own children and have nothing to gain, unless of course, they have lots of money to buy their way out of murder charges.

Anyone who knows that I missed an important reason for all these parents, please feel free to chime in any time. I know these can't be the only reasons.
Let me say this though as I know someone is going to say "but Becky, look at Samantha Runnion's mom. She was a single mother with no money, but she did all these tv appearances and trips to Washington, etc. Here's the deal and the thing that makes me maddest of all. If the murdered child is a beautiful little white girl, the press and media will cover it till the end of time. If not, oh well, a one inch column on page 8 will suffice.
Sorry guys, this is another of my pet peeves. A child is a child and they are ALL precious. No single one deserves more attention than another, in life and especially after they are murdered.
:rant:

Some parents in this horrible situation are so consumed by their grief that they simply cannot vocalize it or take it public in any way. They suffer in solitude and in the many cases where a perp in not found or ends up back on the streets if they ARE found, the parents become quietly resigned to their heartbreak.
Crime is rampant in minority communities- that is a fact. Child mortality is high there, for many different reasons, and maybe the world doesn't pay as much attention to this as we should. But the murder of EVERY child is a black mark on the face of humanity- a scar that doesn't heal. Our laws are too lax as far as pedophiles are concerned- even ones who kill their victims. So we can only hope it is true that more of a punishment awaits them.

 

[SunnieRN]

JKB and DeeDee, thank you so much for your posts!! You have summed up the problems in our great country in regards to children and the crimes that are tolerated by our present laws.

Why should anyone who has sexually abused a child EVER be in society to prey on another child! How often do we read that this accused molester had been convicted previously and only served probation, or was in jail for six months or a year.

There are so many laws to protect molesters, killers, abusers of children, but very few laws in comparison to protect our children. I don't know if my child were to be kidnapped, molested or killed, if I could ever forgive that person. I know beyond a shadow of doubt, that I would go to the ends of the earth to ensure they could never hurt another child. No matter what I had to do. How much it would cost, or how many times I had to beg LE for justice, answer questions, or testify to the animals actions.

 

[CathyR]

JKB and DeeDee, thank you so much for your posts!! You have summed up the problems in our great country in regards to children and the crimes that are tolerated by our present laws.

Why should anyone who has sexually abused a child EVER be in society to prey on another child! How often do we read that this accused molester had been convicted previously and only served probation, or was in jail for six months or a year.

There are so many laws to protect molesters, killers, abusers of children, but very few laws in comparison to protect our children. I don't know if my child were to be kidnapped, molested or killed, if I could ever forgive that person. I know beyond a shadow of doubt, that I would go to the ends of the earth to ensure they could never hurt another child. No matter what I had to do. How much it would cost, or how many times I had to beg LE for justice, answer questions, or testify to the animals actions.

I may not agree with you on the subject of who did this crime but your above post is EXCELLENT.

Once a person is convicted of a sex crime against a child, with only a few exceptions (teenagers a boy 17 and a girl 15 type of incident) they should be held for life as parole conditions for child sexual offenders doesn't prevent them from re offending. I once read that once someone crosses that line and acts upon that child /adult sexual fantasy there is no going back, there is no cure. What they like is what they like. Even castration didn't change that on the inmates who participated in a study on it.
The cost of incarceration is what prohibits most States from adopting that type of hard core 1 strike and you are out policy. We all say we want it but gripe about paying for it.

 

[SunnieRN]

I may not agree with you on the subject of who did this crime but your above post is EXCELLENT.

Once a person is convicted of a sex crime against a child, with only a few exceptions (teenagers a boy 17 and a girl 15 type of incident) they should be held for life as parole conditions for child sexual offenders doesn't prevent them from re offending. I once read that once someone crosses that line and acts upon that child /adult sexual fantasy there is no going back, there is no cure. What they like is what they like. Even castration didn't change that on the inmates who participated in a study on it.
The cost of incarceration is what prohibits most States from adopting that type of hard core 1 strike and you are out policy. We all say we want it but gripe about paying for it.[/QUOT E]

So true, most every instance of early release, or probation only, is about $$$$$! I would love to see a one strike you will rot in jail law! I would also like to see these prisoners put in general population, vs protective custody!

Cleaning up the system, enacting and enforcing the law is a good place to start. I remember reading a thread on this site that a repeated SO was being released from prison. He was in his 90's and vowed that no child would be safe as long as he was free. He stated that if he could get to a child he would abuse that child. They still let him out!

 

[joeskidbeck]

I may not agree with you on the subject of who did this crime but your above post is EXCELLENT.

Once a person is convicted of a sex crime against a child, with only a few exceptions (teenagers a boy 17 and a girl 15 type of incident) they should be held for life as parole conditions for child sexual offenders doesn't prevent them from re offending. I once read that once someone crosses that line and acts upon that child /adult sexual fantasy there is no going back, there is no cure. What they like is what they like. Even castration didn't change that on the inmates who participated in a study on it.
The cost of incarceration is what prohibits most States from adopting that type of hard core 1 strike and you are out policy. We all say we want it but gripe about paying for it.

Good post CathyR. What do you think should happen to a 17 yo that rapes a 4 year old boy. I know what I think should happen, but the outcome would amaze you. How would you feel if a judge ordered therapy for the 17 yo and the parents left the state so that he would not have to "endure" the therapy. I would be willing to bet that right now, tonight, this grown man is molesting another child and I hold that judge responsible. I only wish I knew where this guy is and I guess it's time that I did some sleuthing to find out. For all I know he could be right here in my town (the crime happened in Detroit, if you're interested). I'm not saying that a 17 yo old cant be rehabilitated, but from everything I've read, pedophiles are pedophiles for life. I agree with you on this. One strike and you are out. No second chances, no rehabilitation, castration, and locked away for life. That should cover it. I only wish we could wipe out their memories so they couldn't sit in a cell and remember the things they did to these children. Maybe a lobotomy?

 

[Agatha_C]

Dave and Tad asked>> Was there a specific incident that made you change your position from IDI?

The answer I gave at the time was vague. Since you both were interested enough to ask, a better answer was deserved or at least one given more thought….

In 1996 I took a firm stance, IDI! Now, in all fairness, that was the year we took in our first foster child, and I wasn’t aware of how truly evil families could be. The years that followed were so incredibly busy that I had precious little time to pay attention (I hate saying that, a child slipped through the cracks and I had little time to pay attention… Damn!). Then a year ago, I found myself faced with some long nights and a laptop, watching PMPT on youtube.

I believe that was the moment IDI started to crumble and fall, it wasn’t my epiphany, but it was the catalyst. I began some heavy research, not as much as most here have done, but I guarantee you, I have permanently burned my cornea’s… Armed with 14 years of child advocacy and foster care, what I was reading set the short hairs on my neck to standing up. Something wasn’t right.

A six year old child was murdered in what appears to be a sex crime in her parents’ home. Only four family members in residence at the time. ME, discovers the possible prior molestation and the State, does not remove BR, nor do they conduct a forensic interview. The parent’s are not immediately questioned, so they can prove themselves innocent and get their son back. Big red flags on this. So, wonders I, why didn’t this happen? Hmmmmmmm?????? A.H, you may not have been in the house, but your DNA, is all over this mess. (Not literally for those that read me wrong)

The moment that changed me forever came while reading the Larry King transcripts. Now believe this or not, it wasn’t so much what PR said (and trust me, she said plenty that concerned me) but rather it was something JR said.

LK… Jonbenet would be 16 years old right now. What do you think she would be like today?

JR. Well……………She could be a handful…. (Not that she would be but more like she had been).

They blamed her, whether they said those words or not, they blamed her. I have seen it, heard it and felt the sadness of that type of remark many-many times. They had essentially dumped their blame onto JBR. She was a handful, she brought this on herself, see what she did, what she made us do, doesn’t she know it hurt us more than it did her. That’s how child abuse works. Parents dump their faults on their children and then punish them for being faulty by VERBAL AND PHYSICAL BEATINGS, MOLESTING and or KILLING. It was time I do what I do best and stand up for the child and if it kills me, I WILL GIVE HER A VOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once you hit that AHHA! moment, you understand why IDI theories never make sense or hold together long, because there wasn’t one.

Dave, thank you so much for the song, I laughed so hard I cried.

Thursday, November 25. 2010…. I sat at the end of my table and looked at the smiling, happy faces of my ever growing family, my 9 month old grandson sitting on my lap, feet propped on the table letting me feed him grapes (Like the second coming of Ceasar) and I thought, how full my life, my heart and my home are and just how empty my conscience is. For these things I am the most thankful..

Be Blessed One and All..........

 

[joeskidbeck]

Thank you for a wonderful post, Agatha. People who have never dealt with this kind of trauma (especially to children) cannot grasp what it makes you feel inside to know that a human being can do these things to their own children. My best friend has been a foster parent for app. 30 years. She only takes teenage girls. If I had to guess how many over the years, I would say close to 50. Some stay for days (these are the ones who have to go for inpatient therapy) and some came twenty years ago and are still in her life today. She is mom to them and Gramma to their children. Without her they would not have stood a chance because most people don't want to deal with the teens who have been abused for years and lash out because they can't take it anymore. I've always felt like my friend was a saint and here is another on Websleuths. You have my respect and admiration because I've seen first hand what foster parents go through. Lord, please never let me forget what the children go through, that is the main thing. Thank you for being a woman with a servant's heart and thank you for adding one more voice for JonBenet. Someday we may be so loud that they can't ignore us anymore. I believe the day is coming closer and JonBenet is smiling down on us because she knows we care.

 

[SunnieRN]

Good post CathyR. What do you think should happen to a 17 yo that rapes a 4 year old boy. I know what I think should happen, but the outcome would amaze you. How would you feel if a judge ordered therapy for the 17 yo and the parents left the state so that he would not have to "endure" the therapy. I would be willing to bet that right now, tonight, this grown man is molesting another child and I hold that judge responsible. I only wish I knew where this guy is and I guess it's time that I did some sleuthing to find out. For all I know he could be right here in my town (the crime happened in Detroit, if you're interested). I'm not saying that a 17 yo old cant be rehabilitated, but from everything I've read, pedophiles are pedophiles for life. I agree with you on this. One strike and you are out. No second chances, no rehabilitation, castration, and locked away for life. That should cover it. I only wish we could wipe out their memories so they couldn't sit in a cell and remember the things they did to these children. Maybe a lobotomy?

I would be so angry that I am not sure what I would do or say. I know it wouldn't be pretty though. I know many here are against personal stories, but I will say that I had a situation against a family member, by another family member. I can guarantee that that person is a RSO and when he tried to get taken off the SO registry, I fought it, and thank God I won!!

The seclusion from society of sexual offenders, is IMHO the only way to protect other children. Often a SO will serve their time, only to be released from prison. They will then make sure that the next child can not testify against them.

I'll stop now.

Dave and Tad asked>> Was there a specific incident that made you change your position from IDI?

The answer I gave at the time was vague. Since you both were interested enough to ask, a better answer was deserved or at least one given more thought….

In 1996 I took a firm stance, IDI! Now, in all fairness, that was the year we took in our first foster child, and I wasn’t aware of how truly evil families could be. The years that followed were so incredibly busy that I had precious little time to pay attention (I hate saying that, a child slipped through the cracks and I had little time to pay attention… Damn!). Then a year ago, I found myself faced with some long nights and a laptop, watching PMPT on youtube.

I believe that was the moment IDI started to crumble and fall, it wasn’t my epiphany, but it was the catalyst. I began some heavy research, not as much as most here have done, but I guarantee you, I have permanently burned my cornea’s… Armed with 14 years of child advocacy and foster care, what I was reading set the short hairs on my neck to standing up. Something wasn’t right.

A six year old child was murdered in what appears to be a sex crime in her parents’ home. Only four family members in residence at the time. ME, discovers the possible prior molestation and the State, does not remove BR, nor do they conduct a forensic interview. The parent’s are not immediately questioned, so they can prove themselves innocent and get their son back. Big red flags on this. So, wonders I, why didn’t this happen? Hmmmmmmm?????? A.H, you may not have been in the house, but your DNA, is all over this mess. (Not literally for those that read me wrong)

The moment that changed me forever came while reading the Larry King transcripts. Now believe this or not, it wasn’t so much what PR said (and trust me, she said plenty that concerned me) but rather it was something JR said.

LK… Jonbenet would be 16 years old right now. What do you think she would be like today?

JR. Well……………She could be a handful…. (Not that she would be but more like she had been).

They blamed her, whether they said those words or not, they blamed her. I have seen it, heard it and felt the sadness of that type of remark many-many times. They had essentially dumped their blame onto JBR. She was a handful, she brought this on herself, see what she did, what she made us do, doesn’t she know it hurt us more than it did her. That’s how child abuse works. Parents dump their faults on their children and then punish them for being faulty by VERBAL AND PHYSICAL BEATINGS, MOLESTING and or KILLING. It was time I do what I do best and stand up for the child and if it kills me, I WILL GIVE HER A VOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once you hit that AHHA! moment, you understand why IDI theories never make sense or hold together long, because there wasn’t one.

Dave, thank you so much for the song, I laughed so hard I cried.

Thursday, November 25. 2010…. I sat at the end of my table and looked at the smiling, happy faces of my ever growing family, my 9 month old grandson sitting on my lap, feet propped on the table letting me feed him grapes (Like the second coming of Ceasar) and I thought, how full my life, my heart and my home are and just how empty my conscience is. For these things I am the most thankful..

Be Blessed One and All..........

Agatha, you owed no one your story, but your heartfelt explanation went further yet to establish my beliefs. The ability to change a childs life, help give them trust again is the greatest gift you can give a fellow human being! God bless you!!

The worst case of child abuse I have seen involved 6 girls and two boys, from one family. These were 'stepping stone' children. Suffice to say that two of this womans children had died from burns and every child still alive had burn injuries.

Thank God, I worked in our hospital clinic one night! That one night she came in with her daughter, who had been burned the day before and been in ER. No one at our hospital had reported what was obviously an abuse situation, with a burn with NO splash marks. The children were taken away and all placed with ONE miracle of a foster Mother!! She gave those children a life!! I can not tell you how much admiration I have for you and another member of this forum, MissIzzy. Another wonderful foster Mom!!

Thank you for your gift of love to our societies abused children!! I can only imagine that you would say, as she does, that you are the blessed one!!

 

[Agatha_C]

Thank you for the kind words, but really, I share them to give you my background as I feel after all these years and children, that I am somewhat of an expert on abuse.

Now, I think it should be I who says thanks to all of you on these boards, whether you are IDI, RDI, or undecided, you give a damn, you give your time, your thought and your heart...Hmmmmmmm, sounds like the makings of Foster parents... So my fellow Advocates, I tip this glass tooooo you and say Thank You, for adding your voice to the war cry, and your swords to the fight......

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

If an intruder was there, was it a coincidence that the Ramsey's left their flashlight readily available for them to use? Or was it coincidence that the intruder knew where to look for it?

this is a good question, how did the intruder move free in the big house,not having been there before?
how could he see in the darkness carrying an awaked 6 years old?
because if he took her out of her bed he ´ve must woke her up carrying her downstairs at least 2 floors ,it was dark and he did not know that house at all

 

[joeskidbeck]

this is a good question, how did the intruder move free in the big house,not having been there before?
how could he see in the darkness carrying an awaked 6 years old?
because if he took her out of her bed he ´ve must woke her up carrying her downstairs at least 2 floors ,it was dark and he did not know that house at all

AND: doing all this while maneuvering around with a big ole maglight? That intruder was something else I tell ya! Maybe not even of this world, lol!

 

[Agatha_C]

Beck, you made me spew my coffee. That was funny, I don't care who you are. That there was funny.

 

[Toltec]

The sad part of not being able to put pedophiles away for life is this:

If a pedophile is thinking he/she is going to get life for abusing a child...then he/she would rather kill the child than be locked away.

 

[CathyR]

Good post CathyR. What do you think should happen to a 17 yo that rapes a 4 year old boy. I know what I think should happen, but the outcome would amaze you. How would you feel if a judge ordered therapy for the 17 yo and the parents left the state so that he would not have to "endure" the therapy. I would be willing to bet that right now, tonight, this grown man is molesting another child and I hold that judge responsible. I only wish I knew where this guy is and I guess it's time that I did some sleuthing to find out. For all I know he could be right here in my town (the crime happened in Detroit, if you're interested). I'm not saying that a 17 yo old cant be rehabilitated, but from everything I've read, pedophiles are pedophiles for life. I agree with you on this. One strike and you are out. No second chances, no rehabilitation, castration, and locked away for life. That should cover it. I only wish we could wipe out their memories so they couldn't sit in a cell and remember the things they did to these children. Maybe a lobotomy?

I wish I could post what I thought but watch the guy show up dead and then police start investigating, find my posts and start digging up my deer lease.

The woman who molested my little sister and tortured both myself and older sister isn't alive anymore. She didn't live long and I even told her family she would never enjoy old age. God got to her before I could.

I agree with you on the pedophile issue. I have read numerous articles, books, etc trying to make sense of what happened to my baby sister. It seems that child/adult fantasies once acted upon--- there is no turning back. No amount of counseling, castration, etc changes them.

 

[CathyR]

this is a good question, how did the intruder move free in the big house,not having been there before?
how could he see in the darkness carrying an awaked 6 years old?
because if he took her out of her bed he ´ve must woke her up carrying her downstairs at least 2 floors ,it was dark and he did not know that house at all

I'm not certain but I think one of the R's stated the flashlight was in a drawer in the hall way. If it wasn't in the hallway drawer it may have been a kitchen drawer. On this I am not certain. I don't think they left it out and could not explain why it was on the counter.

 

[SunnieRN]

I'm not certain but I think one of the R's stated the flashlight was in a drawer in the hall way. If it wasn't in the hallway drawer it may have been a kitchen drawer. On this I am not certain. I don't think they left it out and could not explain why it was on the counter.

So, to recap, as I want to make sure I am up to speed, you now believe the RN was a ploy, a fake.

You also believe the flashlight on the counter was the one given to John by Andrew?

 

[Agatha_C]

CathyR,

Your brief post about your abuse... I am so sorry that you had to know that kind of hurt. If you ever need to talk about it, you can Private message me anytime. From what I have learned of you so far, you are strong and I am sure you've moved on, it still helps to know someone cares and I do and that someone is there and I am.....