I believe when Patsy was being questioned about the flashlight, she was also being shown crime photos of the kitchen dining areas. There was a cabinet or some type of chest just off the kitchen, and that is where Patsy said she kept the flashlight. She was pointing to an open drawer, and told LE that was where it was kept. When LE pointed out that there was obviously no flashlight in that drawer (which had been found open and was open when it was photographed), they asked if it was possible that the flashlight (which Patsy said "looked like theirs" ) was in fact, theirs, since it wasn't in the drawer and the only one in the house was the wiped down one in on the counter. At that point the line of questioning didn't seem to be going anywhere. (as was the case with so much of the R interviews).
Coincidences
- Thread starter MurriFlower
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I believe when Patsy was being questioned about the flashlight, she was also being shown crime photos of the kitchen dining areas. There was a cabinet or some type of chest just off the kitchen, and that is where Patsy said she kept the flashlight. She was pointing to an open drawer, and told LE that was where it was kept. When LE pointed out that there was obviously no flashlight in that drawer (which had been found open and was open when it was photographed), they asked if it was possible that the flashlight (which Patsy said "looked like theirs" ) was in fact, theirs, since it wasn't in the drawer and the only one in the house was the wiped down one in on the counter. At that point the line of questioning didn't seem to be going anywhere. (as was the case with so much of the R interviews).
Ames
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I still say that "he" was invisible, and so was that "get away" car that he used. He was just....magic.
Agatha_C
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I've had an ANOTHER "Oh my Gosh" moment....
The R's put BR in therapy because they were worried that the murder would come back to haunt him in his 40's, was that because PR, had it happen to her. She was turning 40, did her abuse choose that moment to rear its ugly head? Something to think about folks.
The R's put BR in therapy because they were worried that the murder would come back to haunt him in his 40's, was that because PR, had it happen to her. She was turning 40, did her abuse choose that moment to rear its ugly head? Something to think about folks.
eileenhawkeye
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Samantha Runnion is also the case that touched my heart the most; I think about her all the time. With JonBenet, we can talk about her life before she was killed and about how the Ramseys acted after her murder, but with Samantha, the only thing that's ever discussed is her murder. I guess what I mean is with JonBenet's case, we can talk about a lot of things besides the actual act of her being murdered but with Samantha's case, it's very hard to avoid that subject. With JonBenet's case, we have hundreds of pictures, stories about her, and even soundbites of her voice so I feel like I know more about the child, JonBenet, but even though Samantha's case got a lot of coverage too, I feel like I don't know much about her since all the focus is on her murder.
Sometimes I wonder though, if everything about JonBenet's case had been the same but she was a black child, would it still have gotten national attention? Let's say JonBenet's still a beautiful child in beauty pageants, she still lives in a 1-2 million dollar house, dad is still a CEO, mom's a former Miss America contestant, she's still murdered the day after Xmas, there is still an RN, and it looks like her rich parents may get away with it because of $$$. I definitely think it still would have gotten media coverage--beauty pageants and wealth are very hard for the media to ignore, no matter what the color of someone's skin is. Especially after the OJ Simpson trial since I bet some people would say, "Another wealthy black person is going to get away with a crime?" Actually, I also think OJ's trial helped JonBenet's case get coverage a bit since people didn't want another wealthy person(s) to get away with murder again.
I don't think JB's race in and of itself was what got the attention. If everything else was the same, a beautiful black child who won pageants and had the wealthy family would still have gotten the attention, but maybe not as much or for as long. Let's face it, the blonde curls and "blue" (really green) eyes made her a "golden girl". With all the rest of it- wealth, pageant wins, a very precocious stage presence, a mother who was herself a former beauty queen- and the gruesome way she was murdered. All this was a "perfect storm" as far as crimes go. It wasn't just one thing.
With tragic Samantha Runnion, she was just an average child, playing in her front yard. Average, working class family- actually, her murder was all the more terrifying because she WAS so average. If it can happen to her, it can happen to anyone's child. What could be more innocuous and innocent than a child playing in her own front yard? And in an instant she was gone.
The other factor with her murder is that is has been solved, I believe, hasn't it? So all we have to talk about is her death. And her parents were never suspects. Her life was a very normal life, only remarkable in its tragic end.
eileenhawkeye
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I agree that there were many factors that came together that helped to get JBR's murder national attention---even 14 years later. Just look at how many news outlets reported Burke was going to be reinterviewed or the frenzy over JMK 10 years after her death. I do think the biggest factors were her participation in beauty pageants and her family's wealth. Imagine if the Ramseys were working class or if they were still rich but JBR had not been in pageants. I don't think there would have been as media attention.
There was a People magazine quote that said, "Little Jonbenét Ramsey's Life Appeared Almost Unnaturally Charmed, Making Her Murder Seem All the More Darkly Perverse," I think that helps to sum up the fascination with it.
Samantha's case was resolved relatively quick. Her body was found and Avila was arrested within a week of her kidnapping. The trial didn't happen until about 2-3 years later and did not get as much attention as her abduction and murder did. I guess because everyone knew that Avila did it and there wasn't much to talk about.
Heyya Agatha C.
The moment that changed me forever came while reading the Larry King transcripts. Now believe this or not, it wasnt so much what PR said (and trust me, she said plenty that concerned me) but rather it was something JR said.
LK Jonbenet would be 16 years old right now. What do you think she would be like today?
JR. Well She could be a handful . (Not that she would be but more like she had been).
- AC
"She could be a handful" and NP's comment about 'being a little bit' molested mimic statements made in the Zahra Baker case.
Thanks for describing your IDI to RDI transition. I always wonder how it hits you, whether it's a jolting experience when the realization comes upon you.
PMPT the movie, it scared the life outta me, even though I knew what was going to happen; the scenes involving JBR's assault as descrbed by LS, were very intense.
The moment that changed me forever came while reading the Larry King transcripts. Now believe this or not, it wasnt so much what PR said (and trust me, she said plenty that concerned me) but rather it was something JR said.
LK Jonbenet would be 16 years old right now. What do you think she would be like today?
JR. Well She could be a handful . (Not that she would be but more like she had been).
- AC
"She could be a handful" and NP's comment about 'being a little bit' molested mimic statements made in the Zahra Baker case.
Thanks for describing your IDI to RDI transition. I always wonder how it hits you, whether it's a jolting experience when the realization comes upon you.
PMPT the movie, it scared the life outta me, even though I knew what was going to happen; the scenes involving JBR's assault as descrbed by LS, were very intense.
eileenhawkeye
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Whenever, John is asked to describe JonBenet, he always says the same things, "She was a sparkplug," or "She was a handful." It's been 14 years and he still can't think of any other way to describe JonBenet? I'm assuming that by sparkplug, he meant she could light up a room and was charismatic. Say that then! Or how about sharing a story about something sweet that JonBenet did? Like maybe she helped Patsy bake a cake for John's birthday or something? I also do not like that he calls JonBenet a handful. She was a 6-year-old not a pregnant 16-year-old who was addicted to crack. I doubt she was any more of a "handful" than any other 6-year-old. WTH does that even mean anyway? It's very subjective which is not a good thing since people shouldn't have to speculate on why JonBenet was a handful. She was murdered and I feel that her own father should not be saying anything even slightly negative about her. Perhaps, John is saying that JonBenet was a "handful" that night?
joeskidbeck
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I feel that since John was away for so much of the time (per Patsys Christmas letter), when he came home, JonBenet was so happy to see daddy, that she probably shadowed his every move for a day or two, wanting him to read to her, do things with her, etc. He was probably just tired and wanted to rest. I've never understood why the Ramseys could never admit to being human. You know, like us. I'll be perfectly honest, I'm 52 years old and there are times that I just don't feel like playing games with my grandchildren. But this was not his grandchild, this was his daughter. I don't think everyone would dislike them so much if they could only have admitted to being human, with human feelings and frailties. They had to make everyone believe they were perfect and all that did was make them look guilty.
Perhaps he is. There's something else he says about her that troubles me:
"JonBenet was pure Patsy." That takes me to some pretty disturbing areas!
Agatha_C
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JR also says "She loved that child more than anything". "She" and not "We".... "More than anything".... More than him and BR?
In the LKL, interview with ST, JR, makes the comparison between his child and ST, pet/dog..
PR, in the same interview, wishes the pain of losing a child on ST... "God willing, if you ever have a child one day, you will know the pain "..... Really? What mother, feeling the loss of a child, would even wish that on a person on any person?
In the LKL, interview with ST, JR, makes the comparison between his child and ST, pet/dog..
PR, in the same interview, wishes the pain of losing a child on ST... "God willing, if you ever have a child one day, you will know the pain "..... Really? What mother, feeling the loss of a child, would even wish that on a person on any person?
freshwater
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Speaking of coincidences, I just found another kidnapping case where a $118,000 ransom was actually paid to secure the hostage's freedom.
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive - Apr 2, 1971
CHICAGO, April 1
Police said a Chicago bank president turned over $118,000 to a woman today after he received a telephone call that his wife was being held hostage...
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fz8NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1mwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3048,187469&dq=118000&hl=en
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive - Apr 2, 1971
CHICAGO, April 1
Police said a Chicago bank president turned over $118,000 to a woman today after he received a telephone call that his wife was being held hostage...
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fz8NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1mwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3048,187469&dq=118000&hl=en
otg
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Holy crap! Looks like He has actually done it again -- as He did with Lazarus!
(˙uʍop əpısdn ƃuıɥʇʎɹəʌə uɹnʇ oʇ ʇɥƃno sıɥʇ
.
eileenhawkeye
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At the end of the article, it says she was bound in her house? Strange....
MurriFlower
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Ok, I changed the hairline, but I thought you might like to see the similarities. Notice the shape of the nose.
Ames
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Ok, I changed the hairline, but I thought you might like to see the similarities. Notice the shape of the nose.
The drawing actually reminds me of an alien....BUT...I have to agree with you on this one. The resemblance is uncanny.
MurriFlower
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I tried to find out some more information about this and what the $118,000 amount was, if it represented some money the bank owed him or something similar, but there was nothing else. I wonder if you can find a follow up story about who and why?
MurriFlower
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"She" because it was "she" who was bing accused by ST of the murder.
'That child' was her beautiful baby girl. Boys are, well, boys.......
JR was probably trying to find something that ST might have been able to relate to as a thing he loved, as I don't believe he had any children himself. I think he wondered if a dog might be more appealing than a child to a single man.
If PR lashed out at ST, well I don't blame her after what he said. I think she was downright polite. I'm not sure I wouldn't have hit him, but if she had it would have just proven how violent and dangerous she was. The sort of pain that a person feels on the loss of a child in that way would only be known to another person who had a similar loss. I'm sure she meant him no ill will LOL.
Agatha_C
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Murri,
Please don't tell me that you think a mother would love a daughter more then a son.. Because what you imply here, is that boys are less to mothers because they are boys. Really Murri? I bet you have an explanation for this too and really I'm waiting to hear it.
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