Conference aims to normalize pedophilia

[Charlie09]

The SAT ranges of Liberty students are a fact. I readily conceded that such ranges might not apply to the individual Liberty grad posting here.

Liberty ain't Harvard. It ain't U. of Virginia. That's not my fault.

It doesn't claim to be.

However they did rank in Forbes annual list of America's best undergraduate institutions focuses on educational outcomes, not reputations.

With over 2700 Universities that puts then in the top 25% of educational outcomes.

It doesn't really matter, it's just the bias of posts that suggest nothing good comes out of there because it's Liberty - is obviously debatable, and decided on more than student's SAT scores.

 

[Charlie09]

Wow! Oversensitive much?

animizrule's remarks (and mine) dealt with a specific university and its founder. Jerry Falwell announced that the 9/11 attacks were caused by gays and feminists provoking God to remove his special protection from the U.S.A.

I've already pointed out that Liberty requires all students to study "creation science" instead of evolution.

You'll have to forgive some of us if we don't think of Liberty as a serious, academic institution. And given Liberty's historical connection with the bogus "cultural wars", it needn't surprise you that some of us find articles based on the incendiary remarks of Liberty professors highly suspect.

But that doesn't mean we are attacking Christianity or Christians or even Christian colleges (there are many excellent ones) as a whole.

****

ETA Kimster I posted this before I saw your warning. To me, the issue here isn't religion, it's one particular, academically inferior university whose part-time staff member gave an incendiary quote on which the entire discussion is based.

I think this was accidentally left out of the post above- 3 days after the comments, he apologized for the comments.

Falwell told CNN: "I would never blame any human being except the terrorists, and if I left that impression with gays or lesbians or anyone else, I apologize."

http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-14/...ptist-church-jerry-falwell-feminists?_s=PM:US

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It doesn't claim to be.

However they did rank in Forbes annual list of America's best undergraduate institutions focuses on educational outcomes, not reputations.

With over 2700 Universities that puts then in the top 25% of educational outcomes.

It doesn't really matter, it's just the bias of posts that suggest nothing good comes out of there because it's Liberty - is obviously debatable, and decided on more than student's SAT scores.

Baylor University has also published several studies on pedophilia.
They are very interesting.

Baylor is one of the top schools in the country.

O/T: I'm REALLY hoping my DD chooses to be a Baylor Bear.

 

[Emma Peel]

FYI -
Liberty University.

US News & World Report Ranking: Unpublished.

College Board:

http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=3446&profileId=6

Acceptance rate: 96%


http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/94/best-colleges-10_Liberty-University_94581.html

Forbes Rank: #609
per Forbes: Graduation Rate = 26%

Jerry Falwell founded the school. It is the 10th largest on-line university.



Test Scores
Middle 50% of
First-Year Students Percent Who
Submitted Scores
SAT Critical Reading: 430 - 570 83%
SAT Math: 430 - 550 83%
SAT Writing: - -
ACT Composite: 18 - 24

Liberty University is a private Christian university located in Lynchburg, Virginia. Liberty's annual enrollment is around 72,000 students, including those not living on campus.[3] LU is currently the largest Evangelical Christian university in the world.[4]

It was founded as Lynchburg Baptist College in 1971 by Jerry Falwell, who was also the Senior Pastor of Thomas Road Baptist Church. The name was changed to Liberty Baptist College in 1976 before settling on its current name (Liberty University) in 1984, when it obtained university status.[

Liberty University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Nova]

I think this was accidentally left out of the post above- 3 days after the comments, he apologized for the comments.


http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-14/...ptist-church-jerry-falwell-feminists?_s=PM:US

No accident. I wasn't impressed with Falwell's apology after he was soundly condemned in the media.

 

[Nova]

Baylor University has also published several studies on pedophilia.
They are very interesting.

Baylor is one of the top schools in the country.

O/T: I'm REALLY hoping my DD chooses to be a Baylor Bear.

Baylor is indeed an excellent university in many ways. As is Texas Christian, Southern Methodist, Notre Dame and Boston College. Hell, I even taught at Pepperdine (Church of Christ) myself.

Nobody is indicting all universities affiliated with religious denominations. Nor is anyone trying to turn this into a discussion of religion, so I don't understand what we are supposed to "knock off."

For all I know, Liberty University may have some decent departments. But any college that teaches "Young Earth Creationism" and (reportedly) has a dinosaur fossil that is marked "3,000 years old" is NOT, in the words of Richard Dawkins, "a proper university."

Liberty University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Knot4u2no]

I appreciate there's a limit to how much you can "dumb down" this stuff for we who are not social scientists.

But you seem to make a distinction between this sort of learned fantasy and innate sexual orientation. Am I misreading you when I conclude that?

If I am not distorting what you have written, what is the difference between pedophilia and garden-variety heterosexuality?

I’m not sure what the question is ... but, IMO, either a male or female - homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual - may also become a pedophile, but their pedophilic sexual preferences are learned according to the basic principles of learning (classical and operant conditioning) in the same manner that any sexual deviancy or criminal conduct is learned. No one is born a pedophile. In spite of the fact that a person is not aware of the learning processes involved, and regardless of sexual orientation, most human sexual behavior is learned. In the absence of active self-management and related value judgments to the contrary, there would be a lot more pedophiles and criminals of all types. As I have tried to post previously, some societies and sub-cultures do not find pedophilic preference to be abnormal at all, and the rates of pedophilic activity in such contexts is much higher than one finds where it is illegal. Any conference, movement, or religion which tolerates pedophilia or endorses it in any way needs to be met with sure, swift, and relevant consequences.

Russell

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Baylor is indeed an excellent university in many ways. As is Texas Christian, Southern Methodist, Notre Dame and Boston College. Hell, I even taught at Pepperdine (Church of Christ) myself.

Nobody is indicting all universities affiliated with religious denominations. Nor is anyone trying to turn this into a discussion of religion, so I don't understand what we are supposed to "knock off."

For all I know, Liberty University may have some decent departments. But any college that teaches "Young Earth Creationism" and (reportedly) has a dinosaur fossil that is marked "3,000 years old" is NOT, in the words of Richard Dawkins, "a proper university."

Liberty University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would love to respond to this post. But, I'm sitting on my hands because we have been told not to discuss religion.
We can not discuss Creation/Evolution without discussing religion.

 

[Charlie09]

Baylor is indeed an excellent university in many ways. As is Texas Christian, Southern Methodist, Notre Dame and Boston College. Hell, I even taught at Pepperdine (Church of Christ) myself.

Nobody is indicting all universities affiliated with religious denominations. Nor is anyone trying to turn this into a discussion of religion, so I don't understand what we are supposed to "knock off."

For all I know, Liberty University may have some decent departments. But any college that teaches "Young Earth Creationism" and (reportedly) has a dinosaur fossil that is marked "3,000 years old" is NOT, in the words of Richard Dawkins, "a proper university."

Liberty University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is not an appropriate thread for evolution-
Liberty is not a university for everyone - don't go if you don't support the core values. But the insults do nothing to champion your causes or beliefs.

There's only one poster bringing homosexuality or creation/evolution or offering scenarios when it is pedophilia or not by age rationalizing, into a thread about normalizing pedophilia. Other people are responding - but that wasn't part of the article or rational discussion after.

The hysteria is not about the article but a personal bias against strong core religious faith which is the taboo subject here. It's not appropriate to take pot shots at it.

 

[animlzrule]

This is not an appropriate thread for evolution-
Liberty is not a university for everyone - don't go if you don't support the core values. But the insults do nothing to champion your causes or beliefs.

There's only one poster bringing homosexuality or creation/evolution or offering scenarios when it is pedophilia or not by age rationalizing, into a thread about normalizing pedophilia. Other people are responding - but that wasn't part of the article or rational discussion after.

The hysteria is not about the article but a personal bias against strong core religious faith which is the taboo subject here. It's not appropriate to take pot shots at it.

Well, not that I want to take the wind out of anyone's sails or anything, the simple point is that one must consider the source of this article and the underlying motivation of the respondents. No way, no how is pedophilia ever going to be normalized in our society. But, they did get a rise out of people.

 

[Charlie09]

Well, not that I want to take the wind out of anyone's sails or anything, the simple point is that one must consider the source of this article and the underlying motivation of the respondents. No way, no how is pedophilia ever going to be normalized in our society. But, they did get a rise out of people.

The source did not come from liberty - a reference point came from liberty. The real simple point is that a conference did occur.

 

[Nova]

A simple google search of the group's name (b4u-act) shows how the hysteria has swept the blogosphere. Yet I can't find a single source that reveals how many people actually attended. For all I know, it was three guys on folding chairs in a broom closet.

But what is apparent in abundance is that anti-homosexual sites everywhere are crying "Here we go again!" and equating pedophilia with consensual gay sex.

So if some of us seem a tad touchy, that's why.

 

[Reality Orlando]

Folks, this is all about crimes against children. How did this conversation get so distorted? Please remove other agendas and let's keep the focus where it was originally directed...the molestion, rape and murder of children by pedophiles and how we can make sure these crimes do not go unpunished.

 

[Nova]

Folks, this is all about crimes against children. How did this conversation get so distorted? Please remove other agendas and let's keep the focus where is was originally directed...the molestion, rape and murder of children by pedophiles and how we can make sure these crimes do not go unpunished.

The fact is there is NO danger that pedophile acts will be decriminalized. None, zero, zilch, nada, rien! NAMBLA has been agitating for decriminalization for 50 years, yet laws against child molestation and child *advertiser censored* are stronger than ever before.

For propaganda purposes the group in question here (b4u-act) has co-opted the language of gay liberation, but gay groups have been repudiating pedophiles unequivocally for decades.

So in an attempt make something out of nothing, the original columnist turned to a temporary professor at a lower-tier university (ranked #609 academically by Forbes) that has traditionally been the source of all sorts of outrageous claims, including vicious attacks against gay people.

And the tactic worked, obviously.

 

[Reality Orlando]

Have you visited the actual site of B4U-ACT and read through their documentation? IMO, this is a real group, similiar to the NAMBLA, trying to indeed get pedophilia decriminalized by pushing the agenda that pedophiles will be more likely to get help if this stigma is removed. I see this group as an actual force working towards that goal in many ways outside of this conference as well. It's always easier to head something distasteful off then it is to try to change it back if it slips through.

 

[Reality Orlando]

This is, apparently, part of what B4U-ACT is fighting:

There is no cure, so the focus is on protecting children.

From Harvard Health Publications, Harvard Medical School:

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mental_Health_Letter/2010/July/pessimism-about-pedophilia

"Pedophilia, the sexual attraction to children who have not yet reached puberty, remains a vexing challenge for clinicians and public officials. Classified as a paraphilia, an abnormal sexual behavior, researchers have found no effective treatment. Like other sexual orientations, pedophilia is unlikely to change. The goal of treatment, therefore, is to prevent someone from acting on pedophile urges — either by decreasing sexual arousal around children or increasing the ability to manage that arousal. But neither is as effective for reducing harm as preventing access to children, or providing close supervision."

 

[Nova]

Have you visited the actual site of B4U-ACT and read through their documentation? IMO, this is a real group, similiar to the NAMBLA, trying to indeed get pedophilia decriminalized by pushing the agenda that pedophiles will be more likely to get help if this stigma is removed. I see this group as an actual force working towards that goal in many ways outside of this conference as well. It's always easier to head something distasteful off then it is to try to change it back if it slips through.

I can't find anything in B4U-act's mission statement or list of principles that talks about legalizing child molestation. In fact, the organization seems specifically aimed at those who have never acted on their feelings toward children. It makes it quite clear that it will not refer pedophiles to legal resources nor will its members testify on behalf of those who harm children.

I don't know what NAMBLA does nowadays, but IIRC it was founded specifically to lobby for changes in laws re ages of consent. B4U-act seems more directed at getting treatment to those who have not yet committed criminal acts, both for the mental health of the non-active pedophile and to protect potential victims.

Of course, the professor from Liberty warns us of a slippery slope if we think of people with pedophiliac tendancies as human beings. Why the next thing you know we'll be hiring pedophiles as babysitters!

But I think the point from a treatment perspective is that a mental health professional cannot effectively treat somebody if he only regards that person as a monster. This view does NOT mean that one condones the abuse of children.

 

[Nova]

This is, apparently, part of what B4U-ACT is fighting:

There is no cure, so the focus is on protecting children.

From Harvard Health Publications, Harvard Medical School:

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mental_Health_Letter/2010/July/pessimism-about-pedophilia

"Pedophilia, the sexual attraction to children who have not yet reached puberty, remains a vexing challenge for clinicians and public officials. Classified as a paraphilia, an abnormal sexual behavior, researchers have found no effective treatment. Like other sexual orientations, pedophilia is unlikely to change. The goal of treatment, therefore, is to prevent someone from acting on pedophile urges — either by decreasing sexual arousal around children or increasing the ability to manage that arousal. But neither is as effective for reducing harm as preventing access to children, or providing close supervision."

BBM: I'm sure we are all for that.

As for a cure, there is no known cure. B4U-act's mission seems to be to establish productive treatment environments for those with inclinations but no history of acting out with children.

The treatment contexts devised by B4U-act may prove useless, but wouldn't it be wonderful if they actually worked?

 

[Charlie09]

The fact is there is NO danger that pedophile acts will be decriminalized. None, zero, zilch, nada, rien! NAMBLA has been agitating for decriminalization for 50 years, yet laws against child molestation and child *advertiser censored* are stronger than ever before.

For propaganda purposes the group in question here (b4u-act) has co-opted the language of gay liberation, but gay groups have been repudiating pedophiles unequivocally for decades.
Except of course for Harry Hay, and Allen Ginsberg - and "Safe Schools Czar" Kevin Jennings, and of course the ACLU

So in an attempt make something out of nothing, the original columnist turned to a temporary professor at a lower-tier university (ranked #609 academically by Forbes) that has traditionally been the source of all sorts of outrageous claims, including vicious attacks against gay people.


And the tactic worked, obviously.

There are people who are hoping that pedophilia is less stigmatized. That should be an issue to everyone. But somehow posts such as the above are insisting that it is only a problem for gay people. Even though repeatedly it's been acknowledged that it's a heterosexual problem as well. No one ever indicates that the only sexual molestation that happens is same sex molestation. So it's either intentional dishonesty in posting, or trying to obscure the real issue that there was a one day conference on this.

Why should it matter who reported on it, it's a bigger issue that more people didn't report on it. Why didn't the Baltimore Sun send a reporter? If it's as innocuous as some posters think, why didn't more (any?) reporters show up?

 

[Charlie09]

BBM: I'm sure we are all for that.

As for a cure, there is no known cure. B4U-act's mission seems to be to establish productive treatment environments for those with inclinations but no history of acting out with children.

The treatment contexts devised by B4U-act may prove useless, but wouldn't it be wonderful if they actually worked?

Their mission is to lessen the stigma of being attracted to children.