Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen-#4

[MyBelle]

Look up some of the cases that the ACLU filed.

They were landmark cases concerning the rights of the mentally ill.

There were also many patients who were dropped off at these places and died there. Also note that some patients weren't even mentally ill but misdiagnosed.

There is a lot of material about this online.

Now do I think treatment is lacking? Absolutely.

The one man I feared while I worked at an E.R. was a schizophrenic patient. And what do you know, he ended up pulling a knife on the doctor one day.......they would hold this man for three days then release him due to laws. It wasn't enough. I still remember his whole name ..and this was 20years ago.

With all due respect, mental institutions were not prisons, they were hospitals. Because of illness, there are some human beings who should be separated from society in order to protect society. It has nothing to do with rights and everything to do with safety.

JMO

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

If anyone would like to light a virtual candle during the upcoming memorial service or at any other time, I have opened a group room at gratefulness.org, a very large site used by persons world-wide.

The group names can contain up to four letters/numbers, so I chose a combination/order (CTSH) that has not yet been used: CT for Connecticut and SH for Sandy Hook.

The candle stays lit for 48 hours and you can light more than one candle at a time.


http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=ctsh

 

[writerranger]

NL's friends all said this is simply not true.

It obviously will take time to flesh out the facts of this. A lot of things are being reported that are fact, then not true, then true again....as the story with how big of a "gun enthusiast" Nancy was or was not. One of the panelists on a Sunday morning talk show said they thought there was an unnecessary amount of secrecy regarding the investigation. They pointed to several simple yes/no questions that authorities are still not answering. It will take a while.

 

[toscaxyz]

With all due respect, mental institutions were not prisons, they were hospitals. Because of illness, there are some human beings who should be separated from society in order to protect society. It has nothing to do with rights and everything to do with safety.

JMO

That is true in theory but very hard to implement in practice. Who determines who is dangerous enough to be confined involuntarily? And how do we determine when a person who has been confined is no longer a threat? (We can't really even do that effectively with criminals who are not mentally ill.) What if a person has been treated effectively? Can they be released?

The old system of mental hospitals had many abuses, but the current system does, too. The current abuses are mostly those of neglect, but they also put the public at risk because it is so hard to confine someone who has not already committed a crime. But if we make it easier, we risk confining people who do not need to be confined, without due process.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

This state cop will change his tune when the families demand answers.

 

[writerranger]

As for the link about Doomsday Prepping not being MSM....how about NBC network affiliate WHDH? The video is at the link I provided.....The following is the transcript - the video with her sister from WHDH is online - again, at this link: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/12/wow_waiting_for_the_apocalypse.php



WHDH 7 in New Hampshire, the local NBC affiliate, interviewed Lanza’s former sister-in-law, Marsha …

“Last time we visited with her in person we talked about prepping and you know, are you ready for what can happen down the line when the economy collapses,” said the gunman’s aunt, Marsha Lanza.

The reporter asked, “Survivalist kind of thing?”

“Yea,” said Marsha Lanza.

Nancy’s guns were supposed to be for self defense. Marsha Lanza called her nephew a special needs child. So far, no motive has been released.

“Just pray for peace,” said Marsha Lanza. “Do I think gun laws need to be changed? No. It’s the person that does the killing, not the gun.”

 

[LaneGirl]

That is true in theory but very hard to implement in practice. Who determines who is dangerous enough to be confined involuntarily? And how do we determine when a person who has been confined is no longer a threat? (We can't really even do that effectively with criminals who are not mentally ill.) What if a person has been treated effectively? Can they be released?

The old system of mental hospitals had many abuses, but the current system does, too. The current abuses are mostly those of neglect, but they also put the public at risk because it is so hard to confine someone who has not already committed a crime. But if we make it easier, we risk confining people who do not need to be confined, without due process.

In your opinion, who should be confined? At what point do we make that call? Just an honest question.

 

[callyn]

Actually .... that reminds me. Please correct me... but in the audio recording of the scanner talk between the first responders, wasn't there a point when one of the LEOs thought he saw the shooter coming towards him? I had a hard time listening to the audio and can't bear to review it, so I don't know if the LEO was in the school or just arriving outside the school at that time. Again - this could be totally wrong, it's not a fact - just my shaky memory of the recording.

I heard that also.

 

[wfgodot]

The "doomsday prepper" information, while reported in MSM as various as New York magazine and the Daily Telegraph, all comes, from what I've read of it, from a single source, Nancy Lanza's former sister-in-law.

 

[mikeysmommom]

With all due respect, mental institutions were not prisons, they were hospitals. Because of illness, there are some human beings who should be separated from society in order to protect society. It has nothing to do with rights and everything to do with safety.

JMO

I agree a million % that some people need to live in a hospital setting and should never be loose for everyones safety,but if you research what these hospitals were like back then they were treated horrendous.They were sleeping on the floors like animals ,kicked,beaten,and some had barely any clothes to wear.Even people with severe mental illness deserve to be treated as a human being and not worse then animals.My mother suffered from manic depression my whole life and in the sixties she was treated horrible.

 

[fred&edna]

I remember that. But I do not think it was falsely reported.

There are at least 2 videos on youtube... cbs and abc coverage of man in camo pants and dark jacket handcuffed and placed in a police car.

 

[kalekona]

It obviously will take time to flesh out the facts of this. A lot of things are being reported that are fact, then not true, then true again....as the story with how big of a "gun enthusiast" Nancy was or was not. One of the panelists on a Sunday morning talk show said they thought there was an unnecessary amount of secrecy regarding the investigation. They pointed to several simple yes/no questions that authorities are still not answering. It will take a while.

I do agree that many of these errors could be easily remedied with just a little clarification by LE.

But if you ask me to choose who is more believable when talking about NL I'm going with the 4 people who knew and loved her rather than the media. Her friends were very clear she wasn't a "crazy prepper" she did own guns and enjoyed them there are a heck of a lot of people out there just like her.

 

[LaneGirl]

I agree a million % that some people need to live in a hospital setting and should never be loose for everyones safety,but if you research what these hospitals were like back then they were treated horrendous.They were sleeping on the floors like animals ,kicked,beaten,and some had barely any clothes to wear.Even people with severe mental illness deserve to be treated as a human being and not worse then animals.My mother suffered from manic depression my whole life and in the sixties she was treated horrible.

Hopefully we've come a long way in understanding mental illness since then...hopefully.

 

[writerranger]

I do agree that many of these errors could be easily remedied with just a little clarification by LE.

But if you ask me to choose who is more believable when talking about NL I'm going with the 4 people who knew and loved her rather than the media. Her friends were very clear she wasn't a "crazy prepper" she did own guns and enjoyed them there are a heck of a lot of people out there just like her.

Point well taken. Conflicting information happens all the time after tragedies.

 

[JBean]

Guys.
Enough already on the President misstep.
Thanks.

 

[ami]

I refuse to criticize innocent people who are there to mourn with the victims.

I will instead follow one of those mourners, Robbie Parker's, advice and turn this into something that makes us more compassionate and humble people. Seems the only humane thing to do.

 

[wfgodot]

When people are obviously trolling a point, don't quote the post. Alert on it.

 

[LaneGirl]

I refuse to criticize innocent people who are there to mourn with the victims.

I will instead follow one of those mourners, Robbie Parker's, advice and turn this into something that makes us more compassionate and humble people. Seems the only humane thing to do.

Thank you an amzaing post and reminder to be compassionate and kind to one another! What an amazing person Robbie Parker is.

 

[tlcya]

Sigh.

I have a solstice gathering/event to attend.

It is my most sincere hope to return and not find this thread locked because it has digressed into the same old political bs.

If ever there was a thread in which that has NO place I would like to think this is the one.

 

[fred&edna]

I wonder how long this man was detained??

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2012/12/14/school-shooting-leaves-multiple-injured/

CBS News reports that a potential second suspect was in custody and that SWAT was investigating the home of the suspect. It was not known if that alleged second suspect fired any of the shots in the massacre.

A witness tells WFSB-TV that a second man was taken out of the woods in handcuffs wearing a black jacket and camouflage pants and telling parents on the scene, “I did not do it.”