Conrad Murray trial -Day fourteen.

[Crosby87]

(mine are called curves :innocent

MJ had fat cells? Where? Just kidding.

 

[Thundar]

I just turned on the CNN online and court is in recess. Is this the noon recess?

 

[octobermoon]

MJ had fat cells? Where? Just kidding.

I stole 'em :innocent: :crazy:

 

[borndem]

Good afternoon all.

Just in case anyone missed it:

Zero possibility that MJ consumed propofol and caused his death

Attended conference in Chile in May, 2011. Conducted experiment on humans re: bioavailability of propofol found in humans.

Sidebar

I think Chernoff is objecting because they already said they were not going to argue oral ingestion but I do not blame Walgren one bit for bringing it up with the work Dr. Shafer did to disprove it especially considering DT knew since May was not viable.

Overruled by Judge

Results -
6 people - 3 volunteers drank 20ML of propofol (200mg)
3 people - 3 volunteers drank 2x that amount (400mg)

Vital signs and sedation were measured using common, validated scale for assessment of anesthesia (repeatedly)

Based on scale -- none of the subjects were sedated at any time following the oral ingestion of propofol

Measurement of sedation -- none

Level of oxygen or blood pressure never dropped throughout study

Was presented to Anesthesiologist Society Conference last Friday in Chicago - he missed it (of course we know that it was due to his father's death)

Received Lifetime Achievement Award

Another intangible from this discussion -- at least to me & possibly no one else -- is that it shows the DT's initial theory that they chose to present is full of baloney. I also inferred from it that IMO-IMO if it were White's theory, either he is not so smart, or not so honest, or was willing to try to give the jury bad science and thought he would get away with it -- IMO-IMO, please know.

 

[Crosby87]

I just turned on the CNN online and court is in recess. Is this the noon recess?

Yes. Judge Pastor announced they will take a one hour and 45 minute lunch break today to give the jurors time to relax.

 

[peace9274]

Could MJ just have stuck himself in the butt and the prop. would that have worked IYKWIM?

I've posted here a few times re MJ injecting himself with the amount of propofol found in his body at autopsy.

I compare it to someone saying their spouse, S/O, etc, committed suicide and that they had shot themselves
3 times in the head (close range) to do so.

Only thing is, the person who alledgedly shot him/herself would not survive after the first gunshot...

Same with giving himself the Propofol. MJ would not have stayed awake, alert, alive long enough,
after the first small dose, to continue giving himself more.

If MJ gave himself the full amount, quickly in the butt, it would have been an IM (intramuscular) injection.
I'm not sure what the effect or how quickly absorbed into his system would be.

Have they mentioned how Propofol works when given as an IM?

I scanned very rapidly, over the long literature at drugs.com for propofol,
but didn't see any mention of IM administration.

I did read, however, that there IS A SHORTGAGE of Propofol at this time!
I wonder what happened to CM's stash!

 

[EPfan]

I have seen so many doctors, nurses, pharmacists and techs try so hard to "CYA" when they caused harm to patients.
They lied about their part of the incidents, both verbally & on documentation in the patient's chart.

If it's a minor, one-time, accidental event for that staff member, the other staff will usually just look the other way and
not report it, which is in reaslity, pathetic.

I saw, 35 years ago, a doctor due to his negligence, get away with his neglect of proper treatment of a one year old baby...
brain damaged for life. The doc hadn't seen the lab results for the baby's electrolytes, especially potassium, in time to adjust
the baby's IV meds and the baby arrested.

The baby's family never knew what happened. Never got compensation. The whole thing was covered up, successfully.
It still bothers & haunts me to this day!

But there have also been many times, that a doctor, nurse, tech has been negligent, acting totally out of the norm for care,
and the other staff have not stood by and let him/her get away with it. Especially when the staff member's behavior, actions
caused harm to the patient.

I've been wondering how many times CM has had to "CYA" and gotten away with it. Thus the reason he was so sure the detectives
bought his long drawn-out story during the interview.... with his wayyyy too many off-topic details.

He also appeared to be so confident & so sure of himself & so pathetic during his U-tube statement....
believing that everyone that saw that U-Tube statement, would believe him!

And then feel sooo sorry for him when "the truth shall prevail."

GMAFB

Thanks for posting this. You are so right. I think we would be totally amazed at the numbers for cover-ups in hospitals when negligence has occured. There is a hospital in the area that I live that is very understaffed so the Dr's and nurses are very overworked. This is a big problem.

 

[Crosby87]

FYI, Dr. Conrad Murray arrived holding hands with his mother on the opening day of his trial.

Maybe his mother is staying with him during the trial?

Does anyone know whether Dr. Murray's mother or Nicole Alvarez have been in Court everyday? Is there anyone there to support him other than his lawyers?

The camera focused on Dr. Murray alot this morning while Dr. Shafer was testifying.

My video connection quit on me so I missed parts of Dr. Shafer's testimony.

 

[peace9274]

Another intangible from this discussion -- at least to me & possibly no one else -- is that it shows the DT's initial theory that they chose to present is full of baloney. I also inferred from it that IMO-IMO if it were White's theory, either he is not so smart, or not so honest, or was willing to try to give the jury bad science and thought he would get away with it -- IMO-IMO, please know.

Dr White, the expert witness for the defense, may be getting paid a large amount for testifying as an expert.
Or he may be doing this pro bono, also.

But, I'm wondering if he's wondering if he'll have to return that large payment he received.


Or if he hasn't gotten paid yet, is he wondering if the DT will still pay him after
Dr Shafer's testimony.... and realize he doesn't have much to say for the defense?

If Dr White will not be getting paid, for what ever reasons, he is losing a lot of money just sitting there waiting for his turn.

Dr Shafer is also losing money, while testifying (pro bono), but he is a devoted doc & realizes that it for very good causes:

To show that profofol is safe,

To show that anesthesiologists, and in fact, most doctors, are not like CM; that they're highly trained & always put the patient first...
IOW, he reinstating faith in docs, medicine, and hoping to eliminate the patients' fear.

To show that doctors & other medical staff can NOT "CYA" when being negletful, harmful and/or acting out of the norm when treating a patient.

 

[Thundar]

I'm sorry I have another question for those that have actually watched this morning, has defense crossed at all yet or has it been all the prosecution so far?

 

[Thundar]

FYI, Dr. Conrad Murray arrived holding hands with his mother on the opening day of his trial.

Maybe his mother is staying with him during the trial?

Does anyone know whether Dr. Murray's mother or Nicole Alvarez have been in Court everyday? Is there anyone there to support him other than his lawyers?

The camera focused on Dr. Murray alot this morning while Dr. Shafer was testifying.

My video connection quit on me so I missed parts of Dr. Shafer's testimony.

I believe that JeanCasarus has stated that Murray's mother has been there evey day during the trial.

 

[Talina]

I'm sorry I have another question for those that have actually watched this morning, has defense crossed at all yet or has it been all the prosecution so far?

Still direct testimony. No cross from defense yet.

 

[peace9274]

I'm sorry I have another question for those that have actually watched this morning, has defense crossed at all yet or has it been all the prosecution so far?

Just the prosecution so far, today.

Lunch break will be longer than usual today.

To resume at 1:45 pm, I think that's what the Judge said.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Dr. Shafer says the amount of Propofol found in #MichaelJackson's femoral blood at time of autopsy is inconsistent with repeated injections.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
It appears Walgren is trying to exclude all possibility of single administration of Propofol in any dosage in #MichaelJackson's case.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Walgren is walking Dr Shafer through the path that #MichaelJackson had to be on drip to have the amount of Propofol found at time of autopsy

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Now Dr Shafer is saying it's highly unlikely #MichaelJackson would be able to wake up after being given Propofol and inject himself w/ more
abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Dr. Shafer: people just don't wake up from anesthesia like that, it's a crazy scenario, it just doesn't happen

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Dr. Shafer is showing several scenarios of what could've happened. It appears the bottom line is that they want to prove #MJ was on a drip.

So far Dr Shafer n Walgren did not explain what possibly happened that led #MJ 2 have that amount of Propofol in his system at time of death

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Judge is now recessing for lunch break. We should be back in trial at 1:45 pm with Walgren resuming direct examination of Dr. Shafer.


:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

 

[Crosby87]

Dr White, the expert witness for the defense, may be getting paid a large amount for testifying as an expert.
Or he may be doing this pro bono, also.

But, I'm wondering if he's wondering if he'll have to return that large payment he received.


Or if he hasn't gotten paid yet, is he wondering if the DT will still pay him after
Dr Shafer's testimony.... and realize he doesn't have much to say for the defense?

If Dr White will not be getting paid, for what ever reasons, he is losing a lot of money just sitting there waiting for his turn.

Dr Shafer is also losing money, while testifying (pro bono), but he is a devoted doc & realizes that it for very good causes:

To show that profofol is safe,

To show that anesthesiologists, and in fact, most doctors, are not like CM; that they're highly trained & always put the patient first...
IOW, he reinstating faith in docs, medicine, and hoping to eliminate the patients' fear.

To show that doctors & other medical staff can NOT "CYA" when being negletful, harmful and/or acting out of the norm when treating a patient.

I wonder if the defense team will discuss the case with Conrad Murray and Dr. White over lunch?

 

[borndem]

Deprived I am.... and deprived I'll stay.....

Seeing all this conversation about NG -- I do know who she is and have tried to watch her shows, but when I do, my DH looks at me like he is getting ready to dial 911 and ask for the men in the white coats... and since she's become so rabid, IMO, I don't watch her now. I've seen the forum on her, among others here on WS...Wall of Shame...

But I don't know these others -- Dr. Drew, Beth Karas (is that the name?), Greta V.S,, etc., etc. I thought I should try them, so I did yesterday and a bit today, but I just could not keep it up, (It's me, I know) so please do not hold it against me if I can't contribute to this part of the trial...

Just call me, "Still crazy after all these years & do not need to go any nearer the edge.... " :crazy:
------------------

The State is having another banner day!

From Dr. Shafer, "I was disappointed..." mmmmm, mmmmm... So polite, but in those two words.... his colleague...that's got to be tuff for him...

Dr. White has mostly kept his head down, and CM is showing a knitted brow a bit more than before. Surely, Shirley, he knows he's sunk. Isn't he?

The Fat Lady hasn't even picked out her singin' dress yet , I know, but I think I hear her tuning up...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I've posted here a few times re MJ injecting himself with the amount of propofol found in his body at autopsy.

I compare it to someone saying their spouse, S/O, etc, committed suicide and that they had shot themselves
3 times in the head (close range) to do so.

Only thing is, the person who allegedly shot him/herself would not survive after the first gunshot...

Same with giving himself the Propofol. MJ would not have stayed awake, alert, alive long enough,
after the first small dose, to continue giving himself more.

If MJ gave himself the full amount, quickly in the butt, it would have been an IM (intramuscular) injection.
I'm not sure what the effect or how quickly absorbed into his system would be.

Have they mentioned how Propofol works when given as an IM?

I scanned very rapidly, over the long literature at drugs.com for propofol,
but didn't see any mention of IM administration.

I did read, however, that there IS A SHORTAGE of Propofol at this time!
I wonder what happened to CM's stash!

Dr. Shafer said propofol is injected intravenously not by IM administration. MJ would have to find a vein to stick the needle in and and he said propofol burns and is very painful. He said Murray said MJs veins were in poor condition. Dr.S does not believe MJ injected himself.

 

[peace9274]

I wonder if the defense team will discuss the case with Conrad Murray and Dr. White over lunch?

If I were Dr White, I would take the lunch break and just keep on walking.

And not return to court at all!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Just the prosecution so far, today.

Lunch break will be longer than usual today.

To resume at 1:45 pm, I think that's what the Judge said.

I think the delay is because Walgren has to get with Dr. Shafer on how they are going to show the drip apparatus to the jury.

IMO

 

[tweezybird]

Does anyone think the state will rest today?