Conrad Murray trial -Day seven.

[octobermoon]

A little off topic - Here's what I don't understand. Why would MJ want to be sedated in the first place? When I have been sedated for surgery, I never felt "rested" when I was finished. I can't image MJ felt good when he woke up. So, why did he do it?

Sounds like was he taking stuff to stay awake and then needing something to go to sleep. Vicious circle. CM wanted to know about non drug uppers when he hooked up with the Pharm. guy.

Also it may work differently than with surgery. I have only had oral surgery and was on pain meds before I was really over the sedation, so they kicked in. And pain meds make me feel yucky, tired, and overall mean. :innocent:

 

[Thundar]

A little off topic - Here's what I don't understand. Why would MJ want to be sedated in the first place? When I have been sedated for surgery, I never felt "rested" when I was finished. I can't image MJ felt good when he woke up. So, why did he do it?

I'll bite on this one. I am no expert by any means, but think of those nights when your brain is just racing and you know you are not going to sleep anytime soon, but are so tired. Then go a little further into the rhelm of you have a lot of money at your disposal, you have a show to put on, and you have access to Dr.s who will do anything for money. Combine all that with an additive personality and you have a person who has convinced themselves they cannot go to sleep without drugs. And it's much easier to fall asleep drugged than not drugged. Then over time it takes more and more drugs to induce that wonderful sleep that you so desire and you got yourself one big problem. My non-expert opinion.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Sounds like was he taking stuff to stay awake and then needing something to go to sleep. Vicious circle. CM wanted to know about non drug uppers when he hooked up with the Pharm. guy.

Also it may work differently than with surgery. I have only had oral surgery and was on pain meds before I was really over the sedation, so they kicked in. And pain meds make me feel yucky, tired, and overall mean. :innocent:

Everyone's body acts different to drugs.I have a low tolerance and my mother had a high tolerance.She was on some high powered drugs for pain (cancer) and she was still moving and talking fine.I would have been asleep for probably 12 hours on the same drugs.

 

[KariKae]

Sounds like was he taking stuff to stay awake and then needing something to go to sleep. Vicious circle. CM wanted to know about non drug uppers when he hooked up with the Pharm. guy.

Also it may work differently than with surgery. I have only had oral surgery and was on pain meds before I was really over the sedation, so they kicked in. And pain meds make me feel yucky, tired, and overall mean. :innocent:

Thanks for answering. Maybe it was the paid meds that made me feel yucky. I sure didn't feel rested and ready to do any strenous activity (i.e. preparing for a show).

I keep hearing people describe the drug putting MJ in a "coma like state". The upper and anesthesia cycle makes sense to me.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree, due to his celebrity MJ and many other stars get access to prescription meds that most others would never get, MJ was a drug addict, but he had money and celebrity and this allowed him to get his drugs via Drs who were seduced by being his Dr and seduced by the money, if he was willing to pay Murray 150,000 a month then he would have expected to be provided with the drugs of his choice as and when he chose them

Murray left his ethics at home and provided MJ with dangerous amounts of drugs, and if MJ chose to use propofol outside the confines of a hospital or clinic then he must have known the dangers, but no Dr should have been administering propofol under those conditions

it is so sad the more we hear about this case that but for his children he was surrounding by staff, and that there appeared to be nobody in his life who tried to help him get help and challenged him about his drug use,

and it seems that this had been going on for a long time, his Demerol addiction was longstanding, and nobody appeared willing to challenge him to reduce his drug abuse or help him get clean

where were his friends and family in the last months of his life, when he was extremely thin, where he was being sedated all night, every night

I don't really agree with that Joe. Prescription drug abuse is NOT just for the wealthy. It has become an epidemic all across our country and most of those affected aren't the wealthiest in society by far. They can be very young to very elderly. Poor as dirt...jobless...in between or rich. There are over 25 million people addicted to prescription drugs. In Florida more life is lost due to prescription drug use than vehicle accidents. So whether it is MJ or Joe Schmoe it is irrelevant. When someone is addicted they will find away to get the drug their brain tells them they need in order to exist. That is why drug abuse is a disease. It changes the brain and the brain thinks the body needs the drugs to survive.

I don't think there is one bit of proof that MJ was addicted to Demerol at the time of his death or had used it recently. Dr. Klein's invoice given to the state for three months treatment listed IMs and that is the correct code since botox is IntraMuscular injections.

So many myths have been spun about this one man by the buzzard tabloids it makes ones head spin. There is no evidence that MJ was even an active drug addict at the time he died. EVERYTHING in his system was what Murray said HE decided to give him.

Imo, all MJ wanted to do is sleep. He did not want to get high.

 

[Crosby87]

Thank you. Military is doing manuevers and I miss some cause of the planes. Not complaing. Just hard to hear at times.

So whoever taped did it on purpose. Or are they going to claim butt dialing?

Because it was so difficult to hear everything Michael said, I can't determine why MJ wanted to record this message. Is it possible he didn't know this conversation with Dr. Conrad was being taped and CM violated the confidentiality rules?

Someone said Michael performed well at rehearsals days before his death and because this conversation was taped on May 10 2009 at 9:05 am, it's unbelievable imo.

The autopsy report IIRC noted scrapes on MJ knees and I think the rumor that MJ fell due to a lack of strength is true. My God.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I'll bite on this one. I am no expert by any means, but think of those nights when your brain is just racing and you know you are not going to sleep anytime soon, but are so tired. Then go a little further into the rhelm of you have a lot of money at your disposal, you have a show to put on, and you have access to Dr.s who will do anything for money. Combine all that with an additive personality and you have a person who has convinced themselves they cannot go to sleep without drugs. And it's much easier to fall asleep drugged than not drugged. Then over time it takes more and more drugs to induce that wonderful sleep that you so desire and you got yourself one big problem. My non-expert opinion.

Yes and let's not forget your body gets used to drugs and you ever need to switch drugs or up the dosage.I have allergies and have been on the same medication for some time.The doc says time to switch your body is getting too familiar with this one.Hence why it is not working anymore.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sounds like was he taking stuff to stay awake and then needing something to go to sleep. Vicious circle. CM wanted to know about non drug uppers when he hooked up with the Pharm. guy.

Also it may work differently than with surgery. I have only had oral surgery and was on pain meds before I was really over the sedation, so they kicked in. And pain meds make me feel yucky, tired, and overall mean. :innocent:

That just shows CMs incompetency. He had to know if he had him some energy pill concocted by the pharmacist that would interfere with MJs ability to sleep at night.

It was like he used MJ as his guinea pig and would just try this or that willy nilly as long as MJ got going to rehearsals.

Like loading him up on all the respiratory downers first and then topping it off with propofol.:banghead:

IMO

 

[octobermoon]

Because it was so difficult to hear everything Michael said, I can't determine why MJ wanted to record this message. Is it possible he didn't know this conversation with Dr. Conrad was being taped?

Someone said Michael performed well at rehearsals days before his death and because this conversation was taped on May 10 2009 at 9:05 am, it's unbelievable imo.

The autopsy report IIRC noted scrapes on MJ knees and I think the rumor that MJ fell due to a lack of strength is true. My God.

I wish we could get a transcript of the recording. I couldn't figure out if MJ knew either. He may have been unaware and just thought he was talking to a friend before he fell asleep.

 

[Thundar]

I wish we could get a transcript of the recording. I couldn't figure out if MJ knew either. He may have been unaware and just thought he was talking to a friend before he fell asleep.

When they first played that in court they had the words transcribed onto the overhead projector. So you could read it. Don't ask me what day that was though.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Because it was so difficult to hear everything Michael said, I can't determine why MJ wanted to record this message. Is it possible he didn't know this conversation with Dr. Conrad was being taped?

Someone said Michael performed well at rehearsals days before his death and because this conversation was taped on May 10 2009 at 9:05 am, it's unbelievable imo.

The autopsy report IIRC noted scrapes on MJ knees and I think the rumor that MJ fell due to a lack of strength is true. My God.

I don't think that is true because he was doing just fine the night before he died and wasnt showing weakness at all but was very energetic instead. Now any dancer may make a quick turn and get a boo boo here and there. That is to be expected.

I have read the law in California about it. And when a person is taped it must also be recorded on that tape that the person is giving their permission by giving their verbal constent on the tape before it even begins.

MJ did not give CM permission to tape this. This is just another person wanting to make future money off of MJ in case he was fired.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

That just shows CMs incompetency. He had to know if he had him some energy pill concocted by the pharmacist that would interfere with MJs ability to sleep at night.

It was like he used MJ as his guinea pig and would just try this or that willy nilly as long as MJ got going to rehearsals.

Like loading him up on all the respiratory downers first and then topping it off with propofol.:banghead:

IMO

From the way CM has looked in court,I wonder if he is a drug addict.I would like to do a Urine drug screen on him and a CBC.

 

[21merc7]

Did MJ fall or was he doing one of those on the shins fly across the stage moves during practice?

Also, I understand why AEG wanted past medical records legally for themselves, but it looks like today's testimony was implying that there was a sudden concern? I did not know of any concerns as all I have read was that MJ was in perfect health. Actually, very very healthy for a 50 year old man.

ETA: Want to thank everyone for keeping us updated again. Some of us would have no idea what is going on without you! :heart:

 

[Thundar]

I don't think that is true because he was doing just fine the night before he died and wasnt showing weakness at all but was very energetic instead. Now any dancer may make a quick turn and get a boo boo here and there. That is to be expected.

I have read the law in California about it. And when a person is taped it must also be recorded on that tape that the person is giving their permission by giving their verbal constent on the tape before it even begins.

MJ did not give CM permission to tape this. This is just another person wanting to make future money off of MJ in case he was fired.

I followed a case where illegal wire taping was part of it, and I am pretty sure it is illegal in all the states, by federal law.

You can't tape anyone without them knowing you are doing it. Like having a tape recorder in your purse and taping a conversation.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

A little off topic - Here's what I don't understand. Why would MJ want to be sedated in the first place? When I have been sedated for surgery, I never felt "rested" when I was finished. I can't image MJ felt good when he woke up. So, why did he do it?

Propofol is an amazing drug. It does not have the side affects of other anesthesia. A person does feel like they have been in a deep sleep and knows nothing while under sedation but when they wake up (much more quickly than other drugs) they do not feel groggy at all.

I have had other anesthesia which took me days to get over..including violent vomiting. I have had propofol once and I will request it again should the need arise.

And the thing about it they do not know why propofol works the way it does but they know it is a miracle drug used countless times everyday in clinics and hospital.

IMO

 

[Soulmagent]

I followed a case where illegal wire taping was part of it, and I am pretty sure it is illegal in all the states, by federal law.

You can't tape anyone without them knowing you are doing it. Like having a tape recorder in your purse and taping a conversation.

In Virginia you can record a conversaion without one person knowing IF 3 people are taking part in the conversation and 2 people are aware of it . Odd huh?

Also you can film people anywhere provided they are not in a place where they expect a reasonable degree of privacy.

 

[Thundar]

In Virginia you can record a conversaion without one person knowing IF 3 people are taking part in the conversation and 2 people are aware of it . Odd huh?

Also you can film people anywhere provided they are not in a place where they expect a reasonable degree of privacy.

That is weird. I kind of figured that about the video thing. Isn't that where half of utube comes from?

I would imagine that MJ would be expecting a reasonable degree of privacy in his own bedroom with his personal Dr. tho.

 

[Soulmagent]

That is weird. I kind of figured that about the video thing. Isn't that where half of utube comes from?

I would imagine that MJ would be expecting a reasonable degree of privacy in his own bedroom with his personal Dr. tho.

Everyone except Hugh Hefner and Charlie Sheen would.

 

[octobermoon]

Everyone except Hugh Hefner and Charlie Sheen would.

EEEEWWWWW :crazy:

 

[Crosby87]

I wish we could get a transcript of the recording. I couldn't figure out if MJ knew either. He may have been unaware and just thought he was talking to a friend before he fell asleep.

Whoever transcribes MJ's conversation can use the button on the transcription machine to increase the speed of the tape.

I question whether MJ knew CM was recording him because the tape was recorded at 9:05 am just before CM would have left Michael's home so I assume they normally talked together at this time everyday, and because MC was his personal doctor, MJ would be willing to confide in him and share how he was feeling. jmo