Conrad Murray Trial - Day Twenty Two

[Credence]

Break time. JP says they have matters to discuss.

Will probably know by end of break whether CM is testifying or not. Drop dead time for his decision is 11AM PT according to BethK

 

[outofstatelawyer]

"No questions on re-cross your honor. This witness was already dead when I concluded cross yesterday".

 

[borndem]

This is the one time I hope Flanagan wins. :crazy: :innocent:

Looking at CM at this moment, 1:18pm, EST, CM looks crestfallen -- looks like he will NOT take the stand -- from my always & ever & never-fail

brilliant insights.

 

[octobermoon]

CM will NOT testify per In Sessions.

 

[borndem]

Flannegan is back to the graphs again. He is asking about free Lorazapam in the stomach at autopsy. Is this not outside the scope of this experts area of expertise?

Was it not established yesterday that witness was not an expert in graphs? LOL

BBM - Well, now, Thundar, just wait one minute!! That was yesterday!! This is today.

 

[Credence]

ETA: How well the kidneys are functioning would be a factor.

This is where I find Dr. White to be tailoring his testimony for the defense. He simply glossed over the blood levels and just concentrated on the urine and IMO to mislead the jury and hoping they won't know that the meds in the urine would have lower levels because of no circulation.

Also noticed quite a bit of propofol in the liver and would also think it would be delivered to the liver prior to the urine, is that correct?

 

[Isabelle]

What dose are they using for ativan in this scenario? I've given ativan / lorazapam a zillion times when a psych patient complains of being "up-tight", anxious, and when s/he are totally "out of control."

The state of sedation, regardless of pt's state prior to giving the med, varies widely.

Some patients go into a very deep sleep, with loud noises & other stimulation close by.. they sleep right through it.

Other patients are not affected at all by a 2 mg injection of ativan/lorazapam

Peace what do you think it is that Conrad Murray does not have to justify the amount of controlled substances given by providing records and left over drug that would account for his actions? Think maybe the Medical Board is waiting to nail him on this after the trial? I don't think MD's are exempt from the requirements for use/disposal of controlled substances.

 

[Isabelle]

This is where I find Dr. White to be tailoring his testimony for the defense. He simply glossed over the blood levels and just concentrated on the urine and IMO to mislead the jury and hoping they won't know that the meds in the urine would have lower levels because of no circulation.

Also noticed quite a bit of propofol in the liver and would also think it would be delivered to the liver prior to the urine, is that correct?

Correct.

 

[borndem]

I don't know what is normal for these types of graphs but a 50% variability seems awfully high to me.

I'll say again, it would have been a flunker in my stat class. (Theoretical stuff, of course, but still -- would you ever submit this kind of graph.)

Kinda like:
Q: Which was first, the chicken or the egg?
A: Yes.

 

[borndem]

I was thinking about that and I wonder if it is because they are simulations run without complete data. They aren't based on any facts of when drugs were given, or even the amount. They are based on Murray's LE interviews which perhaps are true or not. So + - 50% is the best they can do. It blows my mind that these professionals can testify on these graphs though and no one has pointed out what that + - 50% means.

Good thought -- Without good data, she could have been showing a graphic version of "Garbage in, garbage out," in a nice way. What do you do with junk? Good point, I say again.

 

[Credence]

Jinko saying Judge was emphatic when he told Murray it was his personal right to testify and then when he asked for decision; was a noticeable pause by Murray as he looked left and right towards Chernoff and Flanagan and then said "I will not testify".

 

[Credence]

Hmm... Jinka said DT will be resting so guess they are not calling Dr. Ornellas

State has 20 minutes to decide whether or not they will put on rebuttal

 

[borndem]

This is the tox report for propofol found in MJ's system.

I still do not understand why the urine would be used to determine how much propofol was given since once your heart stops beating or blood is no longer circulating it would never reach the urine. The blood levels are much higher which is what Dr. Shafer used to determine that more than 25/50mg had been administered. I hope Dr. Shafer explains it during rebuttal.

http://dearconradmurray.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Page50-Toxicology-Report-Summary2.jpg

BBM - My w/a guess is because it's the best shot they've got. They've got nuttin' honey, as you know.

 

[Talina]

Well, it doesn't sound like we'll be hearing any testimony from the author of the graphs/models in Dr. White's testimony.

I wonder if the defense jumped the gun yesterday telling Judge Pastor they were going to call her to testify today. She probably wanted no part of Walgren crossing her especially seeing the questions he had yesterday for Dr. White about her data assumptions she used.

IMO

 

[CarolinaMoon]

KTLA is mentioning that Dr. Shafer may or not be in town. We could end up recessing after this, with a possible short rebuttal tomorrow, if any.

 

[peace9274]

Peace what do you think it is that Conrad Murray does not have to justify the amount of controlled substances given by providing records and left over drug that would account for his actions? Think maybe the Medical Board is waiting to nail him on this after the trial? I don't think MD's are exempt from the requirements for use/disposal of controlled substances.

Every place I have worked, hospitals, clinics, doc's offices, home setting...
whoever has the narc keys (the med nurse) never never ever gives them to someone else,
including another nurse and/or doctor, without counting all the meds in the narcotic box first.

Doctors must follow all narcotic regulations the same way nurses & pharmacists do.
All their narcotic sheets (which shows the count & to whom the med went to, is supposed
to go back to the pharmacy & collected by FDA.

At home settings, all meds, especially narcotics & controlled drugs, are kept locked in a
"tackle box" and the keys are worn around the wrist or neck... (like in the hospital or clinic)....
and are still counted and accounted for, with the on-coming nursing staff.

Doctors know all this and they know that they can't enter the narc box nor ask the med nurse for the keys.

At one of the places I worked, when the med nurse wanted a break, she just handed the narc
& other med keys to the charge nurse, without counting the meds together.

Then it was discovered that a nurse in that hosp was stealing narcotics when relieving nurses
for their breaks. Policy began that narcs be counted even before and after the med nurses' breaks.

 

[peace9274]

Did the Judge say how long the break will be?

 

[bravowhisky]

Did the Judge say how long the break will be?

He said 15 mins, which would've been 10:30 PST. I'm guessing the procedural stuff is taking a bit longer.

 

[outofstatelawyer]

Omg on HLN Dr. White is on tape hanging out with the Murray supporters, standing right in front of a preprinted sign that Walgren "altered" evidence? OMG he may be charged with a third contempt.

 

[octobermoon]

Dr. White is standing outside with the crowd??? I (of course was occupied elsewhere ) when this happened. Anyone else know what is going on? HLN news.