Cords, Knots, and Strangulation Devices

[UKGuy]

I agree that Burke was detached. He knows his sister is missing and yet does not protest when he is told he is going to the Whites. Nope, he walks out the door with his Nintendo. No "Dad I'm scared, I don't want to leave you!". No "Mommy please let me stay with you!".

Toltec,
He might just be like that. Also John and Patsy may have spoken to him before he left the house, along the lines, do not speak about this or that, so maybe he might just clam up?

Out of the politically correct theories:

1. PDI, Accident and Cover-Up, Steve Thomas.

2. BDI, The Jealous Brother.

3. PRDI The Pedophile Ring, Steven Singular.

4. IDI The Intruder Did It, Lou Smit.

Although the BDI is up there. Boulder's DA in 1999 announced that Burke was not and had never been a suspect in his sisters murder.

Or you reckon this was said to mask any GJ ruling, and Burke being beneath the age of criminal responsibility?


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[SunnieRN]

My son has aspergers. He's 15 now, but has been different for a very long, long time. Very difficult condition for a child to have. Its very hard for him to show any kind of emotion, except for love. He is very affectionate and always initates hugs and I love you's. He has no friends. He never has. He had rather be in his room, by himself, play video games or researching statistics on the computer. He loves to learn and is extremely smart. But he cant associate with other kids. And, as another poster kind of put it, I guess they think he is "weird".
Did Burke have many friends, or do we know? And not aquaintance friends, I mean best friends. Friends that would want to hang out with him everyday?
I know when our Dashchund, whom we all loved very much--including my son, died about 5 years ago, he didnt cry around us at all. A few years later, he admitted to crying at night in his bed, and so no one would hear him. I am in no way comparing a boy losing his sister to losing his dog, but I am just saying that those with AS deal with things differently, as they do with just about everything in life.

Thank you for letting us know what things are like for your son. I am happy to hear that he has no problem with the emotion of love. That says a lot about you and your family!! With love on his side, he has a much better chance at a good life than my friend did!!

 

[UKGuy]

My son has aspergers. He's 15 now, but has been different for a very long, long time. Very difficult condition for a child to have. Its very hard for him to show any kind of emotion, except for love. He is very affectionate and always initates hugs and I love you's. He has no friends. He never has. He had rather be in his room, by himself, play video games or researching statistics on the computer. He loves to learn and is extremely smart. But he cant associate with other kids. And, as another poster kind of put it, I guess they think he is "weird".
Did Burke have many friends, or do we know? And not aquaintance friends, I mean best friends. Friends that would want to hang out with him everyday?
I know when our Dashchund, whom we all loved very much--including my son, died about 5 years ago, he didnt cry around us at all. A few years later, he admitted to crying at night in his bed, and so no one would hear him. I am in no way comparing a boy losing his sister to losing his dog, but I am just saying that those with AS deal with things differently, as they do with just about everything in life.

qtc,
I agree with what you say. With your boy being smart and having the desire to learn. I reckon he will by small steps learn to adapt and innovate in the social sphere. Kind of transfer over his skills from one area to another.

Its very hard for him to show any kind of emotion, except for love. He is very affectionate and always initates hugs and I love you's.

Many people cannot even do this, this is positive and might via empathy provide a future path allowing him to express other emotions. Does he like music, some composers e.g. mozart express emotion in their music. Mozart is a good example since he was a child prodigy.

I guess they think he is "weird".

Probably just different, there have been quite a few aspergers documentaries aired here in the UK. One boy, who swears uncontrollably every second sentence, was the focus on one show. He came over as more humorous than "weird". From memory, anyone from the UK, may want to correct me, but some guy with aspergers won Big Brother. And he had obvious communication problems.

Did Burke have many friends,

Probably not. But he did have school friends and some local friends as he grew up.


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[Cherry Ames]

I actually believe in that stuff. Particularly the aliens, having had a Close Encounter of the Third Kind myself. (My husband thinks they actually take me once in a while and leave a clone in my place).

Then how do we know which one we're conversing with?

 

[DeeDee249]

Then how do we know which one we're conversing with?

You DON'T! :great:

Seriously- the alien clone knows all the forensics stuff. The real DD collects dolls. (though she does get suspended from the eBay forums once in a while).

 

[DeeDee249]

qtc, a good friend has a son with Asberger's. He is presently a PHD candidate in Neuroscience, having graduated with honors from Dartmouth. Brilliant. VERY few friends, ever, though he has had girlfriends, was even engaged once. But he played hockey though school and is HAPPY. That's the operative word. He is HAPPY and the older he gets (the more "adult") the narrower the gap between him and his peers. One day soon, he'll just be seen as a brilliant, but eccentric, scientist.
I hope your son will have a happy and fulfilled life.

 

[qtc]

qtc, a good friend has a son with Asberger's. He is presently a PHD candidate in Neuroscience, having graduated with honors from Dartmouth. Brilliant. VERY few friends, ever, though he has had girlfriends, was even engaged once. But he played hockey though school and is HAPPY. That's the operative word. He is HAPPY and the older he gets (the more "adult") the narrower the gap between him and his peers. One day soon, he'll just be seen as a brilliant, but eccentric, scientist.
I hope your son will have a happy and fulfilled life.

Thank you for the kind words. I think that is all any parent could hope for their child, is for them to be happy. DS has always had an easier time conversing with adults than with his peers. So it would make since, as he grows into an adult, that bridge will close.
I am hoping he finds a girl one day that will make him happy. He definitely gets along better with girls than he does boys. I have read on several AS forums, that a lot of times, boys date girls with AS and vice versa. So maybe that is the route he will go. He has shown no interest in that sorta thing yet, right now, it is just school and video games, lol.

 

[qtc]

qtc,
I agree with what you say. With your boy being smart and having the desire to learn. I reckon he will by small steps learn to adapt and innovate in the social sphere. Kind of transfer over his skills from one area to another.


Many people cannot even do this, this is positive and might via empathy provide a future path allowing him to express other emotions. Does he like music, some composers e.g. mozart express emotion in their music. Mozart is a good example since he was a child prodigy.


Probably just different, there have been quite a few aspergers documentaries aired here in the UK. One boy, who swears uncontrollably every second sentence, was the focus on one show. He came over as more humorous than "weird". From memory, anyone from the UK, may want to correct me, but some guy with aspergers won Big Brother. And he had obvious communication problems.


Probably not. But he did have school friends and some local friends as he grew up.


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No, he has never really shown a interest in music. As mentioned earlier, his thing has always been statistics. Mostly having to do with sports. He has to think hard about what he had for breakfast this morning, but can remember statistics like he is reading them from the back of his hand. He also like to contemplate things that he doesnt understand, and will until he can work it out in his head. We have been told by more than a few people, teachers, sunday school teachers, adults that have been on field trips with him, that he always ask excellent questions about the subject at hand. Questions some adults wouldnt think to ask. So he has trouble with some of the simplest of tasks, but extremely smart in other ways.

The boy you mentioned on that show sounds like he has tourettes syndrome, but you can have someone who has both AS and TS.

 

[Toltec]

I don't know if Burke had Aspergers...but the kid was an oddball.

He feigns sleep with all the commotion going on in the home the morning of the 26th. He is told his little sister is gone missing but makes sure to take his Nintendo when he leaves the home.

He is told his sister is dead and he just acknowledges this information with a head nod.

Look at the pictures of him coming out of the memorial service, smiling. Smiling at the cemetary...

When Burke was being questioned about JonBenet's murder...he told his mother that that was the most boring thing he has ever done in his life.

I don't know what he is like today...but personalities do not change much.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Toltec, does it sound to you like BR may have some socieopathic tendencies? It sure does to me. "JonBenet is dead? What's that got to do with me?" He may not have uttered those words but the meaning is clear.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.news-press.com/article/2...cers-Year-honored-Cape-Coral?odyssey=nav|head

Officers of the Year honored in Cape Coral

The Cape Coral police officers responsible for nabbing a man who tried to bring a "kill kit" to his ex-girlfriend's house in May were honored as the Officers of the Year last week.

........


In Durand's backpack, they found a number of unusual items, including four knives, a box cutter, rubbing alcohol, a box of matches and a garrote, a device that can be used to strangle people.

He also had a pair of gloves, a change of clothes and shoes, as well as plastic bags and caffeine pills.

"I firmly believe this guy was going there to initiate some type of violent crime," Sizemore said, adding that the only time he's heard of a garrote being used in a crime was in the JonBenet Ramsey murder.

The item that gave Durand away, though, was a GPS unit with an address programmed into it.

 

[azwriter]

http://www.news-press.com/article/2...cers-Year-honored-Cape-Coral?odyssey=nav|head

Officers of the Year honored in Cape Coral

The Cape Coral police officers responsible for nabbing a man who tried to bring a "kill kit" to his ex-girlfriend's house in May were honored as the Officers of the Year last week.

........


In Durand's backpack, they found a number of unusual items, including four knives, a box cutter, rubbing alcohol, a box of matches and a garrote, a device that can be used to strangle people.

He also had a pair of gloves, a change of clothes and shoes, as well as plastic bags and caffeine pills.

"I firmly believe this guy was going there to initiate some type of violent crime," Sizemore said, adding that the only time he's heard of a garrote being used in a crime was in the JonBenet Ramsey murder.

The item that gave Durand away, though, was a GPS unit with an address programmed into it.

I find the word "garrote" to be very interesting in the JonBenet case. I may be wrong and since it's been so long since this case was active and we were hearing from the parents, as far as I know, the only people to utter the word "garrote" was John Ramsey and one of his spokesperson or attorney. I can't clearly recall hearing LE officals use that description of the cord around the child's neck. Does anyone following this case recall if the garrote word was exclusive only to what John said in interviews?
jmq and jmo

 

[DeeDee249]

I find the word "garrote" to be very interesting in the JonBenet case. I may be wrong and since it's been so long since this case was active and we were hearing from the parents, as far as I know, the only people to utter the word "garrote" was John Ramsey and one of his spokesperson or attorney. I can't clearly recall hearing LE officals use that description of the cord around the child's neck. Does anyone following this case recall if the garrote word was exclusive only to what John said in interviews?
jmq and jmo

I think you are right, but I couldn't say for sure it was exclusive to JR or his spin team. It may have been coined by LS, though. He definitely liked to put his own spin on this case. JR referred to it sometimes as a "twister"- a term he was familiar with from his experiences in the Philippines. Interesting....
The coroner used the correct term: "ligature". It really wasn't true garrote anyway. A garrote isn't tied around a victim's neck- it is wrapped around a (usually standing or sitting upright) victim from behind and pulled in opposite directions using two hands.

 

[Toltec]

Toltec, does it sound to you like BR may have some socieopathic tendencies? It sure does to me. "JonBenet is dead? What's that got to do with me?" He may not have uttered those words but the meaning is clear.

I think Burke suffers from Schizoaffective Disorder. He was a loner, aloof, not really interested in the people other than his immediate family around him. I believe if someone bothers him or angers him, he could fly into a rage.

 

[Tadpole12]

I think Burke suffers from Schizoaffective Disorder. He was a loner, aloof, not really interested in the people other than his immediate family around him. I believe if someone bothers him or angers him, he could fly into a rage.

Heyya Toltec

That's interesting.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001927

Schizoaffective disorder tends to be rare in children.
Symptoms may include halucinations

 

[Whaleshark]

...So how is it possible that JR did not see a cord around JBR's neck as he states below,

http://http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/01011997ramseysoncnn.htm
Mr. Ramsey did confirm that duct tape was found on his daughter's mouth. I asked him about a cord found around her neck, that was a report out of Colorado today, he said he didn't see, it could have been there but he was panicked at that point. He picked up the body, ran screaming upstairs, hoping she was still alive, of course she was not.

......But had also stated this:

http://http://www.acandyrose.com/1997BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm
TT: Can, could you tell me step-by-step when you found her, tell me how you picked her up and tell me (inaudible).

JR: Right. I found her and I, the first hope of course is that she’s OK. I took the tape off her lips, and her lips were blue. And I tried to untie her hands and her arms. She was stiff, and so I was afraid that she was gone, and so I just picked her up, and screams, and the I went upstairs and laid her down on the floor and I heard Suzanne, she said she’s dead.

ST: And when you say you undid the binding, was that a knotted fashion around both wrists?

JR: Yeah. I tried to get her, I tried to get it completely undone. So when I took her upstairs, it was still partially around her wrist.

ST: John, again, how was she positioned on the blanket, was her head to the south end of the cellar room?

JR: Ah, her head was, well the door is on the east side, and her head was going towards the inside of the cellar. So, her feet were closest to the door. I guess, and, I could draw it for you, I mean it was, trying to think of my directions.

ST: And was it almost simultaneous to removing the tape and bindings that you picked up your daughter and moved out of that room with her?

JR: Not simultaneous. I mean I, bent over and I felt her checks and just talked to her and, I picked her up quickly and took her upstairs.

....He knows the position of her head; he's removed tape from her mouth; he touches her cheek and talks to her; he tried to remove the binding and untie the knots on her wrists before screaming and taking her upstairs.....

The top interview report does not match the second account - the testimony of how he found her and what he did.

 

[DeeDee249]

...So how is it possible that JR did not see a cord around JBR's neck as he states below,

http://http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/01011997ramseysoncnn.htm
Mr. Ramsey did confirm that duct tape was found on his daughter's mouth. I asked him about a cord found around her neck, that was a report out of Colorado today, he said he didn't see, it could have been there but he was panicked at that point. He picked up the body, ran screaming upstairs, hoping she was still alive, of course she was not.

......But had also stated this:

http://http://www.acandyrose.com/1997BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm
TT: Can, could you tell me step-by-step when you found her, tell me how you picked her up and tell me (inaudible).

JR: Right. I found her and I, the first hope of course is that she’s OK. I took the tape off her lips, and her lips were blue. And I tried to untie her hands and her arms. She was stiff, and so I was afraid that she was gone, and so I just picked her up, and screams, and the I went upstairs and laid her down on the floor and I heard Suzanne, she said she’s dead.

ST: And when you say you undid the binding, was that a knotted fashion around both wrists?

JR: Yeah. I tried to get her, I tried to get it completely undone. So when I took her upstairs, it was still partially around her wrist.

ST: John, again, how was she positioned on the blanket, was her head to the south end of the cellar room?

JR: Ah, her head was, well the door is on the east side, and her head was going towards the inside of the cellar. So, her feet were closest to the door. I guess, and, I could draw it for you, I mean it was, trying to think of my directions.

ST: And was it almost simultaneous to removing the tape and bindings that you picked up your daughter and moved out of that room with her?

JR: Not simultaneous. I mean I, bent over and I felt her checks and just talked to her and, I picked her up quickly and took her upstairs.

....He knows the position of her head; he's removed tape from her mouth; he touches her cheek and talks to her; he tried to remove the binding and untie the knots on her wrists before screaming and taking her upstairs.....

The top interview report does not match the second account - the testimony of how he found her and what he did.

So...she's pale gray, stiff, cold and smells like decay- and he isn't sure she's dead??? Notice he doesn't mention here that he gave her CPR - he actually SAID this in past interviews. We KNOW it didn't happen. JB was in full rigor, he'd never have been able to pull her face forward to reach her (frozen open) mouth nor would he have been able to push her arms out of the way to reach her chest- they were frozen by rigor in front of her chest and face.
Unfortunately, NO ONE ever confronts him (or Patsy) on ANYTHING that just doesn't add up. There were absolutely NO marks on her wrists at ALL. Yet, ST does not mention this when JR claims to have attempted untying them. Neither does anyone mention to JR that her arms were over a FOOT apart. Not exactly "tied together". If they had been, they'd still have been close together when she was found. There's that rigor mortis again! Forensics don't lie. Sadly, people do (and DID).

 

[UKGuy]

I think Burke suffers from Schizoaffective Disorder. He was a loner, aloof, not really interested in the people other than his immediate family around him. I believe if someone bothers him or angers him, he could fly into a rage.

Toltec,

He may have had some kind of personality disorder. This is not uncommon in children where abuse is inter-generational.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this, did Patsy show demonstrative love for Burke and JonBenet?

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[SunnieRN]

People have described Patsy as a loving Mother. This doesn't really mean much though.

There are SO many lies, from the beginning, that were NEVER challenged or questioned. This includes John and Patsy as well as Burke to some degree.

How do you live through an event like that, in your life, in your home, involving your baby sister, and NOT be affected by it? If anyone says you can, I seriously question what they are hiding inside. Add to this his Mothers CA and treatment, the time and traveling due to pageants and Mother/Daughter trips, his Fathers distancing after Beths untimely death, and you have the potential for one really messed up kid!!

Also, the things he did say about the night before and JonBenets 'kidnapping' and murder, as well as the 'secrets' comment, tell a different tale than his words alone do.

For those that say Burke may tell all, after John dies, I don't buy it. He doesn't seem to harbour any guilt, ill feelings or need to keep the story alive. He would just as soon, have it all disappear.

 

[DeeDee249]

People have described Patsy as a loving Mother. This doesn't really mean much though.
For those that say Burke may tell all, after John dies, I don't buy it. He doesn't seem to harbour any guilt, ill feelings or need to keep the story alive. He would just as soon, have it all disappear.

Actually, the whole family felt that way. Just get her buried ASAP and put the whole "mess" behind them.