Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #110

[Auntie Cipation]

Yes, Long Covid is scary, and I'm unhappy that I got Covid mainly because of the threat of Long Covid. It was a wonderful holiday season until Covid, and then my son got it, sigh. But he's fine and I'm grateful that my DH, DIL and GS didn't get it.

As a person living alone, do you have a plan for getting help if you get sick and can't keep up with things? That would be a big concern for me too if I lived alone.

I understand your concerns for sure. I'm pleased that I have been able to avoid covid so far, but I don't think that's a given in the long run by any means.

I did have a close call a few months ago where I was exposed in close quarters to someone who didn't yet know they were sick, and I did develop symptoms in reaction (fever, queasiness, and a metal taste in my mouth). But I never tested positive even with a PCR test, so I'm treating that as an immune reaction without my actually having a covid infection, at least not that developed enough to show up on the PCR test.

But it's entirely possible that at some point it will catch me. I'm a hermit, but I'm not entirely isolated and do occasionally connect with friends, so I'm at risk. In your position, and in mine assuming I eventually get it, I would say the emphasis should be on getting as few repeat infections as possible. <modsnip - no link from an approved source to statement made as fact>

If it becomes something we can't avoid, like flu, getting it once a decade will be vastly preferable to getting it once every few years.

For your question about myself, it's hard to say. I live in an extremely rural place without good healthcare. So it would depend on how sick I become and whether I needed to be out of the area for care. I have friends who could come help but there are complications (aren't there always?).

In my case: my friends are mostly older and less able than I am, and my cats are former ferals who wouldn't easily be caught or do well in boarding or someone else's house. So if it came to that, I might have to accept some unpleasant outcomes, like the cats being sent to the Humane Society where their adoptability would not be guaranteed. What I could and would do is ask friends to come bring me prepared food if that were needed. I could always pay them or return the favor another time.

As for heat, I always try to keep several weeks ahead in terms of splitting, and I've done this for many years. All it would take is a sprained wrist or any illness that makes me too weak to go out and split a few minutes per day. I might be at the point (I'm age 60) of starting to buy it split rather than doing it myself, even though I do enjoy it. Maybe I'll buy half of it split and try not to use it unless needed!

I'm also considering installing a regular heater at the house so that I'm no longer 100% dependent on wood heat. This is more for general aging reasons than specifically covid related, but I guess at some point all the reasons blend together, don't they?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I understand your concerns for sure. I'm pleased that I have been able to avoid covid so far, but I don't think that's a given in the long run by any means.

I did have a close call a few months ago where I was exposed in close quarters to someone who didn't yet know they were sick, and I did develop symptoms in reaction (fever, queasiness, and a metal taste in my mouth). But I never tested positive even with a PCR test, so I'm treating that as an immune reaction without my actually having a covid infection, at least not that developed enough to show up on the PCR test.

But it's entirely possible that at some point it will catch me. I'm a hermit, but I'm not entirely isolated and do occasionally connect with friends, so I'm at risk. In your position, and in mine assuming I eventually get it, I would say the emphasis should be on getting as few repeat infections as possible. <modsnip - no link from an approved source to statement made as fact>

If it becomes something we can't avoid, like flu, getting it once a decade will be vastly preferable to getting it once every few years.

For your question about myself, it's hard to say. I live in an extremely rural place without good healthcare. So it would depend on how sick I become and whether I needed to be out of the area for care. I have friends who could come help but there are complications (aren't there always?).

In my case: my friends are mostly older and less able than I am, and my cats are former ferals who wouldn't easily be caught or do well in boarding or someone else's house. So if it came to that, I might have to accept some unpleasant outcomes, like the cats being sent to the Humane Society where their adoptability would not be guaranteed. What I could and would do is ask friends to come bring me prepared food if that were needed. I could always pay them or return the favor another time.

As for heat, I always try to keep several weeks ahead in terms of splitting, and I've done this for many years. All it would take is a sprained wrist or any illness that makes me too weak to go out and split a few minutes per day. I might be at the point (I'm age 60) of starting to buy it split rather than doing it myself, even though I do enjoy it. Maybe I'll buy half of it split and try not to use it unless needed!

I'm also considering installing a regular heater at the house so that I'm no longer 100% dependent on wood heat. This is more for general aging reasons than specifically covid related, but I guess at some point all the reasons blend together, don't they?

I admire your energy and strength! Even before I had long Covid, I don’t think I could do that for heating. Your lifestyle should keep you much safer than the vast majority of people, but I think it’s always wise to be prepared anyway.

If it’s any comfort, I saw a doctor last week for a non Covid matter and mentioned to her that I’ve been living with long Covid since March 2020. She said that what they are seeing is that people with long Covid who were infected in that first wave do seem to be suffering the most.

Whether that stands up statistically I can‘t say, or whether it’s because the vaccines are limiting symptoms somewhat may be a possibility.

 

[anneg]

I understand your concerns for sure. I'm pleased that I have been able to avoid covid so far, but I don't think that's a given in the long run by any means.

I did have a close call a few months ago where I was exposed in close quarters to someone who didn't yet know they were sick, and I did develop symptoms in reaction (fever, queasiness, and a metal taste in my mouth). But I never tested positive even with a PCR test, so I'm treating that as an immune reaction without my actually having a covid infection, at least not that developed enough to show up on the PCR test.

But it's entirely possible that at some point it will catch me. I'm a hermit, but I'm not entirely isolated and do occasionally connect with friends, so I'm at risk. In your position, and in mine assuming I eventually get it, I would say the emphasis should be on getting as few repeat infections as possible. (I'm reading that each infection DOUBLES one's future risk of heart disease, stroke, dementia, etc.)

If it becomes something we can't avoid, like flu, getting it once a decade will be vastly preferable to getting it once every few years.

For your question about myself, it's hard to say. I live in an extremely rural place without good healthcare. So it would depend on how sick I become and whether I needed to be out of the area for care. I have friends who could come help but there are complications (aren't there always?).

In my case: my friends are mostly older and less able than I am, and my cats are former ferals who wouldn't easily be caught or do well in boarding or someone else's house. So if it came to that, I might have to accept some unpleasant outcomes, like the cats being sent to the Humane Society where their adoptability would not be guaranteed. What I could and would do is ask friends to come bring me prepared food if that were needed. I could always pay them or return the favor another time.

As for heat, I always try to keep several weeks ahead in terms of splitting, and I've done this for many years. All it would take is a sprained wrist or any illness that makes me too weak to go out and split a few minutes per day. I might be at the point (I'm age 60) of starting to buy it split rather than doing it myself, even though I do enjoy it. Maybe I'll buy half of it split and try not to use it unless needed!

I'm also considering installing a regular heater at the house so that I'm no longer 100% dependent on wood heat. This is more for general aging reasons than specifically covid related, but I guess at some point all the reasons blend together, don't they?

I'm a cat lover and have a cat, so I understand your concerns about what would happen if you couldn't care for your cats. Having a backup source of heat and buying half of the wood already split sound like good ideas to me.

Your comment about avoiding repeat infections is important, IMO. Thinking about ways to cope with illness or diminished capacity as we age is too. DH and I are in our late 70s so I'm a good bit older than you--60 sounds quite young to me!

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Oops, my posts got deleted, my apologies! I totally forgot about all WS rules about not linking "random" sites! Bottom line is that I don't have firsthand medical knowledge but I have found people who I trust who are making very serious claims about the dangers of Long Covid. MOO

 

[otto]

The risk associated with covid reinfections is described here:


"In a study published in Nature Medicine, researchers report that COVID-19 reinfections could be taking a toll on some important organ systems.
...

People who had more than one COVID-19 infection were three times more likely to be hospitalized and twice as likely to die than those who only had one infection. Those with multiple infections were also more vulnerable to other dangerous conditions; they were 3.5 times more likely to develop lung problems, 3 times more likely to have heart conditions, and 1.6 times more likely to have brain changes requiring care than people who had only had COVID-19 once."
...

Repeat infections may also raise the risk of Long COVID."

November 10, 2022

Getting COVID-19 Multiple Times Is Risky for Your Health

A new study investigates the less obvious tolls that COVID-19 take on the body

time.com

 

[anneg]

The risk associated with covid reinfections is described here:


"In a study published in Nature Medicine, researchers report that COVID-19 reinfections could be taking a toll on some important organ systems.
...

People who had more than one COVID-19 infection were three times more likely to be hospitalized and twice as likely to die than those who only had one infection. Those with multiple infections were also more vulnerable to other dangerous conditions; they were 3.5 times more likely to develop lung problems, 3 times more likely to have heart conditions, and 1.6 times more likely to have brain changes requiring care than people who had only had COVID-19 once."
...

Repeat infections may also raise the risk of Long COVID."

November 10, 2022

Getting COVID-19 Multiple Times Is Risky for Your Health

A new study investigates the less obvious tolls that COVID-19 take on the body

time.com

Thanks, Otto.
Here is the Nature Medicine article (the link in the Time article doesn't work):

Acute and postacute sequelae associated with SARS-CoV-2 reinfection - Nature Medicine

A new analysis using US Department of Veterans Affairs databases showed that reinfection is associated with increased risk of all-cause mortality, hospitalization and a wide range of long COVID complications in individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 compared to those with no reinfection.

www.nature.com

Abstract​

First infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is associated with increased risk of acute and postacute death and sequelae in various organ systems. Whether reinfection adds to risks incurred after first infection is unclear. Here we used the US Department of Veterans Affairs’ national healthcare database to build a cohort of individuals with one SARS-CoV-2 infection (n = 443,588), reinfection (two or more infections, n = 40,947) and a noninfected control (n = 5,334,729). We used inverse probability-weighted survival models to estimate risks and 6-month burdens of death, hospitalization and incident sequelae. Compared to no reinfection, reinfection contributed additional risks of death (hazard ratio (HR) = 2.17, 95% confidence intervals (CI) 1.93–2.45), hospitalization (HR = 3.32, 95% CI 3.13–3.51) and sequelae including pulmonary, cardiovascular, hematological, diabetes, gastrointestinal, kidney, mental health, musculoskeletal and neurological disorders. The risks were evident regardless of vaccination status. The risks were most pronounced in the acute phase but persisted in the postacute phase at 6 months. Compared to noninfected controls, cumulative risks and burdens of repeat infection increased according to the number of infections. Limitations included a cohort of mostly white males. The evidence shows that reinfection further increases risks of death, hospitalization and sequelae in multiple organ systems in the acute and postacute phase. Reducing overall burden of death and disease due to SARS-CoV-2 will require strategies for reinfection prevention.
---------
In sum, in this study of 5,819,264 individuals, we provide evidence that reinfection contributes to additional health risks beyond those incurred in the first infection including all-cause mortality, hospitalization and sequelae in a broad array of organ systems. The risks were evident in the acute and postacute phases of reinfection. The evidence suggests that for people who already had a first infection, prevention of a second infection may protect from additional health risks. Prevention of infection and reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 should continue to be the goal of public health policy.

 

[otto]

Thank you for finding the article Anneg!

The vaccine might prevent people from getting sick, but, if they get sick, the damage to their body is the same as those who were never vaccinated. That is, the long term health risks associated with covid reinfection are not mitigated by the vaccine.

The vaccine, social isolation and masking helped flatten the curve to prevent large numbers of people from getting sick at the same time (overwhelming healthcare system) - at least that was the goal in Canada. When a new variant emerged, masking started again. With this variant, I doubt the Canadian govt will mandate masks anywhere, so high transmission/reinfection rates means everyone who is getting covid second or third time will have additional health needs.


" ... sequelae including pulmonary, cardiovascular, hematological, diabetes, gastrointestinal, kidney, mental health, musculoskeletal and neurological disorders. The risks were evident regardless of vaccination status.
...

The evidence shows that reinfection further increases risks of death, hospitalization and sequelae in multiple organ systems in the acute and postacute phase.
...

Prevention of infection and reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 should continue to be the goal of public health policy."
Nature

 

[Mo Thuairim]

I'm off to get my bivalent booster in a minute - my first booster in over a year (it's finally available to anyone over 18 here). Very pleased. I can't believe I haven't had Covid yet but I'd rather get it while my vaccinations are up to date.

PS I've just had flu and it was brutal. Definitely going to make time to get a flu shot next winter. Kicking myself that I didn't.

 

[ilovewings]

I'm off to get my bivalent booster in a minute - my first booster in over a year (it's finally available to anyone over 18 here). Very pleased. I can't believe I haven't had Covid yet but I'd rather get it while my vaccinations are up to date.

PS I've just had flu and it was brutal. Definitely going to make time to get a flu shot next winter. Kicking myself that I didn't.

Glad you got your booster- you waited a whole year---- I am now 6 months out from my last booster and I guess it is time for me to get the Bivalent booster----- I am not thrilled about having to get these boosters every few months but I think at 6 months the protection from the last booster has waned considerably--- I always worry about side effects after each vaccine ----so far I have not had any really bad side effects ---One thing I don't like about the Bivalent booster is that there really was no trial on actual humans like there was for the initial vaccine. One scientist actually said this bivalent vaccine should be considered a new vaccine--- By now though the Bivalent booster has been given to enough people that if there was something of concern it would have showed up by now in a large part of the population of people who have gotten it (which is only 15% of the population)

Take care and be well!

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Glad you got your booster- you waited a whole year---- I am now 6 months out from my last booster and I guess it is time for me to get the Bivalent booster----- I am not thrilled about having to get these boosters every few months but I think at 6 months the protection from the last booster has waned considerably--- I always worry about side effects after each vaccine ----so far I have not had any really bad side effects ---One thing I don't like about the Bivalent booster is that there really was no trial on actual humans like there was for the initial vaccine. One scientist actually said this bivalent vaccine should be considered a new vaccine--- By now though the Bivalent booster has been given to enough people that if there was something of concern it would have showed up by now in a large part of the population of people who have gotten it (which is only 15% of the population)

Take care and be well!

Thank you. All done! Sore arm but relieved to have got it. I didn't wait a year by choice - I just wasn't eligible for a second booster until this week. It was only for over-50s before now here in Ireland.

I understand why other people might be a little nervous with all these boosters, but I've never had any ill effects from a vaccine and I don't mind getting a booster once or twice a year if it means I get a milder dose of Covid. I've dodged it so far (knock on wood) but I've noticed that friends/colleagues my age who've had Covid for the second time in the last few weeks have complained of much more unpleasant symptoms than the first time they got it (most of them winter 2021-22 and almost all said it was v mild). I think it's because they were so far out from their last vaccine/booster that their symptoms weren't mitigated as well.

Anyway totally anecdotal and non-scientific but that's what I've observed!

Just checked and the one I got today is Comirnaty (Pfizer) adapted for BA4-5.

 

[anneg]

Thank you. All done! Sore arm but relieved to have got it. I didn't wait a year by choice - I just wasn't eligible for a second booster until this week. It was only for over-50s before now here in Ireland.

I understand why other people might be a little nervous with all these boosters, but I've never had any ill effects from a vaccine and I don't mind getting a booster once or twice a year if it means I get a milder dose of Covid. I've dodged it so far (knock on wood) but I've noticed that friends/colleagues my age who've had Covid for the second time in the last few weeks have complained of much more unpleasant symptoms than the first time they got it (most of them winter 2021-22 and almost all said it was v mild). I think it's because they were so far out from their last vaccine/booster that their symptoms weren't mitigated as well.

Anyway totally anecdotal and non-scientific but that's what I've observed!

Just checked and the one I got today is Comirnaty (Pfizer) adapted for BA4-5.

I'm glad you were able to get the bivalent booster. I got the Pfizer one also, in September.

It's great that you have avoided Covid so far. I wish I could say that! But sorry you recently had a bad case of flu.

 

[anneg]

Thank you for finding the article Anneg!

The vaccine might prevent people from getting sick, but, if they get sick, the damage to their body is the same as those who were never vaccinated. That is, the long term health risks associated with covid reinfection are not mitigated by the vaccine.

The vaccine, social isolation and masking helped flatten the curve to prevent large numbers of people from getting sick at the same time (overwhelming healthcare system) - at least that was the goal in Canada. When a new variant emerged, masking started again. With this variant, I doubt the Canadian govt will mandate masks anywhere, so high transmission/reinfection rates means everyone who is getting covid second or third time will have additional health needs.


" ... sequelae including pulmonary, cardiovascular, hematological, diabetes, gastrointestinal, kidney, mental health, musculoskeletal and neurological disorders. The risks were evident regardless of vaccination status.
...

The evidence shows that reinfection further increases risks of death, hospitalization and sequelae in multiple organ systems in the acute and postacute phase.
...

Prevention of infection and reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 should continue to be the goal of public health policy."
Nature

Avoiding reinfection has become my new goal!

I do wish I knew where I got Covid. There is another possible source: an appliance repairman who fixed our oven on December 23. I'd kind of forgotten about that amid all the other stuff going on. DH let him in and when I went in the kitchen to talk to him, he was not wearing a mask, so I quickly put on a KN95 mask. I was surprised because he had worn a mask the first time he was here. But, of course, DH didn't get Covid...so who knows.

 

[dmac55]

I have had all Covid vaccines and boosters
To my knowledge I have never had Covid

But sometimes I think maybe I’m naive and have had an asymptomatic infection
Mostly because what are the odds I could escape it completely
It’s everywhere

I’ll never know…
So I carry on best I can

 

[Niner]

I have had all Covid vaccines and boosters
To my knowledge I have never had Covid

But sometimes I think maybe I’m naive and have had an asymptomatic infection
Mostly because what are the odds I could escape it completely
It’s everywhere

I’ll never know…
So I carry on best I can

Ditto here - so far have not gotten Covid (knock on wood!) - but then I do wear my mask everywhere I go and getting the bivalent booster next week - I shall be going on 6 months since my last one.

 

[Kingsley]

I have had all Covid vaccines and boosters
To my knowledge I have never had Covid

But sometimes I think maybe I’m naive and have had an asymptomatic infection
Mostly because what are the odds I could escape it completely
It’s everywhere

I’ll never know…
So I carry on best I can

ditto here

 

[weepingangel]

Autopsies of those who died with COVID-19 find virus in the brain, multiple organs: study

Autopsy results from 44 people who died with COVID-19 show how the virus spreads through not just the respiratory system, but the entire body, including the brain, persisting for months in some patients.

www.ctvnews.ca

Actual study is linked in article

 

[ilovewings]

Autopsies of those who died with COVID-19 find virus in the brain, multiple organs: study

Autopsy results from 44 people who died with COVID-19 show how the virus spreads through not just the respiratory system, but the entire body, including the brain, persisting for months in some patients.

www.ctvnews.ca

Actual study is linked in article

More good news about this nasty virus! NOT

 

[Arkay]

I've only had a reaction to the second of the five shots I've received.

That was chills and fever, plus the sore arm which I'm accustomed to after an annual flu shot.

I can honestly say that even if I were to react very badly to a shot, I would still prefer that to skipping the vaccine.

I'd rather be on a sickbed than a deathbed, and IMO the vaccine is the difference.

Here in NYC I knew TOO MANY PEOPLE who died in the first crushing wave in March and April 2020.

I've known plenty of people who've gotten Covid since, even with five shots, but NO ONE who needed the hospital, or a respirator, or died.

Jmo

I understand why other people might be a little nervous with all these boosters, but I've never had any ill effects from a vaccine and I don't mind getting a booster once or twice a year if it means I get a milder dose of Covid. I've dodged it so far (knock on wood) but I've noticed that friends/colleagues my age who've had Covid for the second time in the last few weeks have complained of much more unpleasant symptoms than the first time they got it (most of them winter 2021-22 and almost all said it was v mild). I think it's because they were so far out from their last vaccine/booster that their symptoms weren't mitigated as well.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I've only had a reaction to the second of the five shots I've received.

That was chills and fever, plus the sore arm which I'm accustomed to after an annual flu shot.

I can honestly say that even if I were to react very badly to a shot, I would still prefer that to skipping the vaccine.

I'd rather be on a sickbed than a deathbed, and IMO the vaccine is the difference.

Here in NYC I knew TOO MANY PEOPLE who died in the first crushing wave in March and April 2020.

I've known plenty of people who've gotten Covid since, even with five shots, but NO ONE who needed the hospital, or a respirator, or died.

Jmo

I feel the same. I plan the shots so that if I’m wiped out for a day or two it won’t impact anything, and just go with it. The most recent last month was fine though and I had the flu shot at the same time too.

My aunt died of Covid in December 2020. When my parents had it in July 2022 they pretty much had a bad cold, in terms of symptoms. For me, that’s the wake up call.

Also, if I feel grumpy about having to get the shot, I stop to think of all the countries in the world who aren’t as fortunate, or maybe where it isn’t free, and where people can’t afford it.

I would never talk someone into having it though. It’s up to them, I’ll just do what I think is best for me.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

I've only had a reaction to the second of the five shots I've received.

That was chills and fever, plus the sore arm which I'm accustomed to after an annual flu shot.

I can honestly say that even if I were to react very badly to a shot, I would still prefer that to skipping the vaccine.

I'd rather be on a sickbed than a deathbed, and IMO the vaccine is the difference.

Here in NYC I knew TOO MANY PEOPLE who died in the first crushing wave in March and April 2020.

I've known plenty of people who've gotten Covid since, even with five shots, but NO ONE who needed the hospital, or a respirator, or died.

Jmo

When I say I've never had any ill effects, I meant side effects that persist for weeks or months like tinnitus. I feel awful for people who have to put up with that, or more serious reactions. I'd personally still take the vaccine though unless a doctor recommended against it.

But I've had fever and chills and fatigue with probably three out of the four shots. Like you I don't mind. It's worth it for me. The sore arm is unreal with this one! I can barely move it. And I needed a nap halfway through the day yesterday. But like HKP, I scheduled around it so if I felt unwell, I wouldn't have a lot of things to do.

Have to say the vaccination centre was empty yesterday though. Tumbleweed. Staff standing around bored with nothing to do. They were excited to see me! There is little interest in this bivalent booster here compared to the early vaccines when we had 95%+ uptake. It's a pity.