Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #43

[Cool Cats]

Many countries are only counting those people who are tested, or who die in hospital - just like China. People who are not sick enough to be hospitalized are not tested and not added to the numbers.

Relatives Wonder Why Pneumonia Deaths Not in Coronavirus Tally

Families describe discrepancies between information from doctors and death certificates

That's the whole point. We know China's numbers are 40x's higher (by some estimates) than reported. We have 360 million they have one and a half billion. It's my opinion their numbers are higher than ours. China has people die in hospitals from the virus but only count it as pneumonia. China lies even by hospital counts.

 

[sallye818]

@CeeCeeCat , may I just tell you again--your posts and gratitude lists are so encouraging to me! I know you are anxious and scared, but please know that you are brightening my day (and I'm sure many others') by your honest, yet uplifting posts here on WS. Thank you again. I really do smile when I see your name come through in my scrolling.

 

[tresir2012]

I woke up this morning and started my normal routine. Coffee first (of course) then sat at my computer and instead of going into my normal bank account checks and going over bills to make sure everything is getting paid, I went to my go to Coronavirus websites to see what the counts are up to, checked our news source to see the daily news (filled with coronavirus news of the grimmest nature) logged into my children's school accounts to see today's assignments. I stopped for a second and thought to myself "Is this real life or am I dreaming this?"
It was just a month ago I was getting the kids ready to go to school, kissing my husband as he heads out for the day, getting myself ready for work. Planning the weekend activities (park, bike rides and seeing family).
But, today I am planning a grocery trip that feels like a military operation. Researching how to make a homemade mask to wear into town, wondering if the little bit of hand sanitizer is going to last. Wondering if they are going to have the food in stock that we need to last another week with 6 people (2 teenagers YIKES) Praying that they have bleach or lysol this time so that I can use it if needed because the 3 lysol sheets that are left in my container (that was bought 4 months ago) are going to get used to clean our groceries.
This new normal feels like I'm watching a movie and doesn't end except I'm in it and it SUCKS.
I hope everyone is well (physically and mentally) I have been on auto drive for a while now and today it the first day that I actually took a step back and all I could say was "WHOA"

I guess the purpose of this post is this: keep going! This too shall pass and we will be stronger after it. I have only been a member of this site for a few months but I can say that I have come to care of everyone of you. Just keep swimming!

I just got back from my first shopping trip under lockdown. After being met with a long queue outside of about 15 standing a long way apart I got in the queue. The supermarket is only allowing in 50 people max so one comes out, one is let in. When you get to front of queue there was kitchen towel and spray cleaner to use on your trolley plus antibacterial gel for your hands and then you wait for the next person to come out and the store worker lets you in. Plenty of room to go around store and get what you need. Some people had scarves, only saw one guy with a mask like the ones workmen use when sanding wood. At the checkout there was hardly any queuing and no two lines were open only one line open every two checkouts. The cashiers had plexiglas up and were well protected. Even the till receipt came out from under the plexiglass and you pulled it out. I was pretty impressed. I put everything back into the trolley and boxed it up from the trolley into my car straight into my boxes that I had kept from shopping 12 days ago. After returning my trolley I went back to my car got in, and got one of my antibacterial wipes in my car to do my hands my car keys and the steering wheel for good measure, put key in and turned the ignition. Then I used same wipe to do the electric window button to open the window and clean the outside door handle, closed window partly up, stashed the used wipe in the cup holder, used a bit of my antibacterial gel for my hands and headed home. This was an Aldi store in the UK so big kudos to those staff.

 

[Cryptic]

China has fewer cases with a population of 1.3 billion, suggesting that population size is not the reason that some countries have an uncontrolled outbreak.

China has fewer reported cases than other countries.

The countries have the resources for comprehensive tracking and are democracies where uhmm…. "creative statistics" are harder to maintain.

In short, I strongly suspect that China realized that the virus could not be contained and that they also lost the ability to comprehensively track the virus through out urban and rural areas of the vast country.

They then decided that they would not order comprehensive and near total economic shut downs (very few Chinese have a work from home option). The virus was left to burn itself out naturally and a certain death rate would be accepted.

 

[LadyL]

has everyone seen this crap?

Trump asks medical supply firm 3M to stop selling N95 respirators to Canada

Trump asks medical supply firm 3M to stop selling N95 respirators to Canada

 

[Sundog]

Sundog Google "wet markets in China"

It is not a thing of the past and is disgusting.

My post wasn't clear. I agree with you on the nature of these markets. I know they exist in some parts of China, particularly the south, but they exist because of the demands of an older generation who grew up on traditional medicine and other cultural customs. They are not embraced by more recent generations.

In a country with no human rights offered by the government, it is hard to get the government to focus on animal rights. But there are many people in China fighting for both, and trying to change these older cultural practices. I worked with some of the leaders of these groups in 2011 when they first began to organize, and brought back my two cats from China that were being sold on the streets. The work goes on.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

It's a bit of a rude wakeup call for the rest of the world that the global supply chain is unreliable in times of need. National level manufacturing and self-reliance is the natural consequence of what we see today. There has to be an economic shift during and after this pandemic.

That’s even more reason to ‘Buy American, Hire American’.

 

[LadyL]

An update from my shift today in a Denver METRO hospital. I stress "METRO" cuz my hospital is not in the city or county of Denver - but heckin' close. Anywhoo.

The floor I work on is a "non-COVID" floor so my info is from our nursing manager. We have 85 patients on the COVID floors. 62 are confirmed. 16 are vented. 3 discharged today. 1 passed away (82yo female found down at home 3 days after a fall and also COVID +).

Our PACU may be the next to convert to COVID. I hope my floor isn't next because I dont want my hours cut nor do I want a crash course in critical care.

We got our temps checked this morning at entrance and were given one disposable mask with a paper bag to put it in during "breaks" and lunch for a 13 hours shift. I forgot to use my bag and just threw my mask in my pocket during lunch break. But lemme tell you - taking it off when I left was GLORIOUS.

That's all I got! I work tomorrow and Saturday so will try to get more updates.

Stay safe, y'all!!

hey just wanna say thanks for being on the frontline
sending you hugs from Canada

 

[tresir2012]

There is a tremendous amount of confusion and plain old ignorance on the part of so many people---and might i add lack of common sense as in the situation you describe. sigh

I don't think they have enough masks for the emergency services and health services and that is why they are not telling everyone to mask up. If they tell people to wear home made masks, they may be worse if they get moist so they are not recommending it IMO. I took a scarf today but the majority were not wearing anything and I was not at close quarters to warrant pulling the scarf up in the end. AJMO.

 

[tresir2012]

Can somebody explain to me the reasoning behind letting prisoners out?

Not enough prison officers once CV19 gets in the prison maybe? And they have to try to make some room to prevent the spread. I'm just guessing here.

 

[JerseyGirl]

So do we know when and where the golf outing is?

I know it's extremely weird, but where I'm from we use golf carts as transportation at festivals, field hospitals, moving people from one place to another, etc.

ETA are 5 month golf outings the norm?

Jmo

Hampton Roads golf courses remain open after approval from governor

Despite the new statewide stay-at-home order due to the coronavirus pandemic, local golf courses are still open for business.

Gov. Ralph Northam’s executive order allows Virginians to venture out for food, medical care, essential work and exercise, including golf.

Secret Service signs $45,000 “emergency order” for golf carts: report

The golf carts were rented in Northern Virginia to protect a "dignitary" in the town of Sterling, which is where Trump National Golf Club Washington DC is located.

 

[Midgie2]

DHgate sells surgical and N95 masks. Use the filter to find sellers with a good reputation and those that small small amounts, 20 pc or 50 pc. If you need help finding some you can also contact me through PM.

 

[jjenny]

When I talk about supplies US send to China, I am not just talking about 17 tons of donated supplies. US companies were selling PPE to China at accelerated rate in the beginning of outbreak. We knew outbreak was coming to US, and US did nothing to stop companies to sell PPE to China. And now we have to make homemade masks out of old t-shirts.

"American companies sold more than $17.5 million worth of face masks, more than $13.6 million in surgical garments and more than $27.2 million in ventilators to China during the first two months of the year, far exceeding that of any other similar period in the past decade, according to the most recent foreign trade data available from the U.S. Census Bureau."
US exports of masks, PPE to China surged in early phase of coronavirus

 

[CSIDreamer]

has everyone seen this crap?

Trump asks medical supply firm 3M to stop selling N95 respirators to Canada

Trump asks medical supply firm 3M to stop selling N95 respirators to Canada

“The Administration also requested that 3M cease exporting respirators that we currently manufacture in the United States to the Canadian and Latin American markets,” a statement from the company read.

They have manufacturing facilities in other countries.

 

[otto]

That's the whole point. We know China's numbers are 40x's higher (by some estimates) than reported. We have 360 million they have one and a half billion. It's my opinion their numbers are higher than ours. China has people die in hospitals from the virus but only count it as pneumonia. China lies even by hospital counts.

Indeed, most country's numbers are inaccurate. China managed to contain the outbreak primarily to Wuhan using strict measures that included dumping dirt on all roads in and out of the city. People were locked in their apartments to prevent them from spreading the virus. Wrist bands were issued weekly to allow one person from a family to shop once a week. The virus was handled very differently in China than in other parts of the world. China built new hospitals in 11 days. We don't see that anywhere else.

It doesn't really add up that China's numbers are significantly inaccurate given that the handling of the epidemic was drastically different than every other country.

 

[JerseyGirl]

DHgate sells surgical and N95 masks. Use the filter to find sellers with a good reputation and those that small small amounts, 20 pc or 50 pc. If you need help finding some you can also contact me through PM.

I placed an order on DH Gate for medical masks over a month ago. They were shipped but have been sitting in Shanghai for weeks now. At the time, a pack of 10 masks were $8 shipped.

 

[LadyL]

We need to buckle down.
to kill this virus that needs to survive with it's human hosts.
This sickening killer needs us, to survive.
you can kill it, by not giving it a chance to jump into a new host.
stay home. Fight it. With every weapon you've got.
Heat, bleach, gloves, social distance.
Personally, for me.
I will do my best to NEVER buy anything from China again.
The anger I feel about this country who murders innocent animals is off my chart.
As are the number of deadly diseases, they continue to release to an innocent world.
Imo. Americans and other countrie's people should not be dying because of China's unholy, disrespect of this world and her inhabitants.
Yes. This is absolutely my opinion.
Yes. I am going to go kiss my 13 year old doggie.
Who is one of the most amazing friends ever.
I am So angry about what China has done to our world, economy, people and families.

the animal agriculture industry in western countries is just as bad
maybe this is the wake-up/shake-up the entire world needs about its horrid treatment of animals

 

[Shadow205]

If there's any "good" to come from the release of child predators. . . maybe it will convince parents to keep their kids indoors during their "stay at home" orders. IMO

From the article you mentioned:
"The governor said the prisoners were serving sentences for Class C and D felonies, the “two lowest-level felonies,” and none were convicted of violent or sex-related crimes. Certain felons were not eligible for this consideration, he said."

 

[CeeCeeCat]

@CeeCeeCat , may I just tell you again--your posts and gratitude lists are so encouraging to me! I know you are anxious and scared, but please know that you are brightening my day (and I'm sure many others') by your honest, yet uplifting posts here on WS. Thank you again. I really do smile when I see your name come through in my scrolling.

Thank you so much @sallye818 - that really means a lot to me

 

[tresir2012]

Ventilators. Those that need a ventilator will die without it. Don't have enough. Crisis.

How important are ventilators? Does anyone know?

Most coronavirus patients who end up on ventilators go on to die, according to several small studies from the U.S., China and Europe.

"We're not sure how much help ventilators are going to be," Osborn says. "They may help keep somebody alive in the short term. We're not sure if it's going to help keep someone alive in the long term."

We have some early published data on percentages which vary widely. A paper from China involved 710 Covid-19 patients; 52 were admitted to an ICU. Of the 22 who eventually required mechanical ventilation, 19 died.

86% of those put on ventilators died.

Another early study reported 31 of 32 mechanically ventilated patients died.

97% of those put on ventilators died.

Probably the best published information we have so far is from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Center (ICNARC) in the UK. Of 165 patients admitted to ICUs, 79 (48%) died. Of the 98 patients who received advanced respiratory support—defined as invasive ventilation, BPAP or CPAP via endotracheal tube, or tracheostomy, or extracorporeal respiratory support—66% died.

66% of those put on ventilators died.

Ventilators have been seen as critical to treating coronavirus patients because the devices are very successful when used to treat common forms of pneumonia, says Hajizadeh. "We treat patients for several days, and then we get the antibiotics into the body and the patient recovers," she says. "Unfortunately with this COVID-associated pneumonia, there are no treatments that we know work for sure."

*******

It appears to me that ventilators are remarkably ineffective at treating CV victims. Because there is no treatment for CV, the current prognosis for going on a ventilator is bleak. This could change if treatments are shown to be effective, but that is unlikely for this peak of the outbreak. None of this is good news, but information matters, despite the information being imperfect (no time for peer reviewed studies).

The media will have us believe that ventilators are the solution and point fingers (in many directions), not so sure that is true.


Ventilators Are No Panacea For Critically Ill COVID-19 Patients

Mortality rate of COVID-19 patients on ventilators | Physician's Weekly

The 34% survival rate is pretty good. That is saving 1 in 3 people. The ventilated patients are the critical cases so if they can save a third that way, that is good IMO.