Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #50

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Inthedetails said:
I think it is UV light from the sun that was specifically mentioned. Not sure it was just "heat."

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

jmo
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Yes, UV rays, summer, sunshine. As well as humidity. But, UV rays most significant.

Maybe even tanning beds.

Gotta stop using so much sunscreen, not 24/7..... use on the face though ;)
Hey, even my orthopedic surgeon recommended getting in the sun, in addition to Vitamin D supplements. Not just for bones, but for the immune system as well.
 
Reasonable & Just said:
Maybe the Red Cross could check as part of their blood donation processing.
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They'd need access to the same problematic serological tests that any other place would use to study prevalence of CoVid in blood.

I wonder what happens if the person is CV+, asymptomatic and has not yet formed antibodies. It would stand to reason that the person receiving that donated blood might end up with an active case of CV.

A lot to think about and surely one reason that non-elective procedures can't ramp up again. China found that people with Type O blood also had strong resistance to CV, so blood banks would do well (as usual) to recruit as many Type O people as they can. But it does seem they should be testing blood for antibodies before using it - and discover what happens if blood, rather than plasma, contains antibodies.
 
10ofRods said:
Most doctors consider giving placebos to very ill patients unethical and immoral. So, you will either have to accept these various closed-cohort retrospective studies or wait some nation decides to undertake this. HC has already been tested in completely non-sick people, but the study you are asking for would require everyone in the study to be equally sick (which is what happened in the Veterans study, more or less). Even better, would be good to take some mildly symptomatic people and put them in the study (with symptomology - this takes combing through medical records, often done by medical students and grad students - who are currently not permitted into CoVid heavy environments right now). Photocopying all those records is not a use a resources that most hospitals can sanction right now.

So, the only studies we have are of "CoVid patients" (sick) and no placebo group (CoVid patients - sick - given NOTHING." Doctors simply cannot "give nothing" to sick people in a pandemic to see if they die.

Have you listened to the podcast on the Guardian? It would help you understand the problems with HC. Here are some other studies, but again, no one is just testing CoVid patients who are sick and then putting them in a hospital bed and doing nothing other than watch them (and give them a known placebo, such as a sugar pill). Since the mechanism of this virus is better understood today than 10 days ago, it's unlikely you'll see many HC studies (as it is associated with more deaths and not fewer in the study we're discussing). That's not a positive indicator. People who got merely antibiotics did better. See the problem?

HC + Zinc seems to be doing better than HC + Zpac, but still not great.

BTW, since HC may actually be harmful, it would be interesting to back and back out all HC patients from every hospital study and see the stats. That'll get done and if it turns out that HC was actually upping mortality rates, then it's really been a bad idea for someone with a bully pulpit to tell people to take it.

The NIH says the data from all the studies that are published says there's neither data for OR against HC.

Therapeutic Options Under Investigation | Coronavirus Disease COVID-19

So rather than ask for the individual studies (all of which will have the problem you're pointing out), why not just go with what the experts say? If doctors do elect to prescribe HC, they need to monitor for specific heart problems, as that side effect seems to be significantly negative for CoVid patients (it's predictive of an increased risk of heart attack).

If there were *any* studies that gave HC a positive outcome, then perhaps the heart issues would simply mean that some patients couldn't take it, but the rest could

However, the NIH review of the literature shows absolutely no evidence that HC works, and the VA study shows that it might actually encourage a more severe course.

There is, however, a pharmaceutical company that has received FDA permission to conduct a test with placebos. The design calls for the patients to be pulled out of the placebo test if they worsen or if a doctor for any reason thinks they need something else. There's nothing in the design that would prevent, for example, those placebo patients from getting plasma. All patients will receive "standard of care," which means they may actually get some other drug in addition. This will take the placebo patients out of the placebo group, of course, and if the HC group and the HC+Z group also gets some other drug, they'll be out of the study as well.

In one study, ALL of the placebo patients were removed from the placebo group, so we shall have to see how this study goes.

Here are some links to studies about HC:

No Hydroxychloroquine Benefit in Randomized COVID-19 Trial

This is a 150 patient study where the non HC patients simply received basic standard of care (SoC). There was no difference in quality of symptoms, except that the HC group had a 10% chance of an added symptom that none of the non-HC group had (diarrhea). Two patients in the HC group progressed to more serious symptoms while that was not true of the non-HC group.

For the study where they had to stop the HC because of side effects, etc, see here:

Coronavirus drug chloroquine – touted by Trump – has test halted

The last study, while without placebo groups, was double blind (nurses and attendings did not know which patients were getting HC, but as they had to treat more symptoms, the researchers had to reveal that fact and in all cases, the attending doctor d/c'ed the HC).

The heart issues with HC are now well-documented and alarming enough to some doctors, that they recommend against it:

French officials report heart incidents in experimental coronavirus treatments with hydroxychloroquine

There were no studies of comatose, ventilated patients who all of a sudden started receiving HC on their last day of life. At least, I can't find any and naturally, those would be of little therapeutic or scientific value unless the patient made a miraculous recovery, which would likely be reported in Lancet and JAMA as anecdotal.

It's of interest that among the many trial drugs out there, physicians at university hospitals conducting such studies aren't studying HC. The one big study is sponsored by a big pharma company. Given that stark divide in research motivation, I don't think you'll see any large scale studies about HC except that one, in the near future.

The Zinc + HC guy in Los Angeles is facing federal charges regarding his claims.
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I looked at your 2and to last link, USA today I think. What arrhythmia are they talking about? Arrhythmia is a pretty broad term. Jmo
 
neesaki said:
Yes, UV rays, summer, sunshine. As well as humidity. But, UV rays most significant.

Maybe even tanning beds.

Gotta stop using so much sunscreen, not 24/7..... use on the face though ;)
Hey, even my orthopedic surgeon recommended getting in the sun, in addition to Vitamin D supplements. Not just for bones, but for the immune system as well.
Click to expand...

One doctor wrote about this and said it's only UV-C that kills the virus and that we would have to make machines that specifically killed it. The dose of UV needed (by itself) is not strong enough. But CV definitely doesn't like heat. I sure hope no one relies on UV or UV-A, UV-B (tanning beds) to do what...keep CV off their skin? Just take a shower!
 
CSIDreamer said:
INDIANAPOLIS —

Indiana officials announced Thursday that the state will be one of the first to start testing people at random for COVID-19.


Officials said the new study of random samples will provide a greater understanding of the true spread, and will in turn, help make better decisions about the state's response.

Indiana now selecting Hoosiers at random for COVID-19 testing
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I have always believed everybody should be
tested whether they are symptomatic or not
 
LadyL said:
why are they still not social distancing? is it because they wanna be on tv with Trump?


!
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In one of the recent press conferences, I believe it was mentioned that everyone standing up there had been tested immediately prior to coming on and were all negative, hence the reason they stood closer than 6 feet apart at the podium. I would assume if there was any doubt or question that someone might be infected, the secret service wouldn’t let them near the POTUS. IMO of course.
 

Chinese journalist who went missing after reporting on coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan has re-appeared two months later

Alice Cachia For Mailonline
6 hrs ago
...
arwin last year, killing four men, will plead not guilty.
A Chinese journalist who went missing for nearly two months after streaming videos from Wuhan has reappeared, and claims he was detained and forcibly quarantined by police.

Li Zehua was one of three Chinese journalists reporting from Wuhan's frontlines during its coronavirus epidemic who mysteriously disappeared.

A former employee of state broadcaster CCTV, the 25 year old was last seen on February 26 in a video he posted online.

The hours-long live-stream ended when agents entered his apartment - and he hadn't been seen since.
...
Before he was taken by police, he had visited a series of sensitive venues in Wuhan, such as the community that held a huge banquet despite the epidemic and the crematorium which was hiring extra staff to help carry corpses, according to Radio Free Asia (RFA).

At the time of his disappearance the outlet said Li was likely targeted by secret police after visiting the £34million Wuhan Institute of Virology.

It has been at the centre of conspiracy theories, which suggest the killer virus originated
...
 
The new coronavirus appears to be causing sudden strokes in adults in their 30s and 40s who are not otherwise terribly ill, doctors reported Wednesday.

They said patients may be unwilling to call 911 because they have heard hospitals are overwhelmed by coronavirus cases.
There's growing evidence that Covid-19 infection can cause the blood to clot in unusual ways, and stroke would be an expected consequence of that.

Dr. Thomas Oxley, a neurosurgeon at Mount Sinai Health System in New York, and colleagues gave details of five people they treated. All were under the age of 50, and all had either mild symptoms of Covid-19 infection or no symptoms at all.
"The virus seems to be causing increased clotting in the large arteries, leading to severe stroke," Oxley told CNN.

video

Video: Doctors finds disturbing trend of strokes in young coronavirus patients

Covid-19 causes sudden strokes in young adults, doctors say - CNN
 

China coronavirus cases might have been four times official figure, says study

Helen Davidson
11 hrs ago
...
More than 232,000 people might have been infected in the first wave of Covid-19 in mainland China, four times the official figures, according to a study by Hong Kong researchers.

Mainland China reported more than 55,000 cases as of 20 February but, according to research by academics at Hong Kong University’s school of public health published in the Lancet, the true number would have been far greater if the definition of a Covid-19 case that was later used had been applied from the outset.
China has now reported more than 83,000 cases. Globally, the death toll from the coronavirus has exceeded 183,000, with the number of cases worldwide standing at more than 2.6 million.


China’s national health commission issued seven versions of a case definition for Covid-19 between 15 January and 3 March, and the study found these changes had a “substantial effect” on how many infections which were detected as cases.
...

The Hong Kong study analysed data up to 20 February culled from the World Health Organization’s mission to Wuhan.

It estimated that each of the first four changes increased the proportion of cases detected and counted, by between 2.8 and 7.1 times.

“If the fifth version of the case definition had been applied throughout the outbreak with sufficient testing capacity, we estimated that by 20 February 2020, there would have been 232,000 … confirmed cases in China as opposed to the 55,508 confirmed cases reported,” the study said.
 
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