Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #85

[LaborDayRN]

Can I get some help here regarding COVID info? I need some of the information and studies showing that particles of saliva and virus particles do not stop 6 feet out of the mouth of someone singing. Information that shows how far articles move in air and stay suspended in air? Thank you.

Though the coronavirus is still thought to spread primarily through respiratory droplets passed from person to person, the CDC is recognizing that airborne transmission is also a threat since small particles can linger in the air for minutes to hours, be inhaled, and lead to an infection.

The CDC also acknowledges that these minuscule airborne particles can travel farther than 6 feet, particularly when people are talking, singing, or even breathing heavily in indoor environments with poor ventilation.

How COVID-19 spreads through aerosols
Research has found that people with the virus can expel pieces of it when they exhale, talk, or cough.

Those tiny viral pieces, called microdroplets, can be so small that they’re able to float in the air and potentially travel a distance of multiple meters.

Some microdroplets can travel across an entire room.

People can then inhale those minuscule viral particles, develop COVID-19, and get sick.
Experts Say COVID-19 Is Airborne: Here’s How You Can Stay Safe
Much more at link.

 

[10ofRods]

Here's a really good article (from physicists) about how the 6 foot rule is outdated and covering variables in which aerosols travel much further:

https://phys.org/news/2020-08-physics-team-quantitative-methods-virus-laden.html

Also covers filtration (masks) a bit.

 

[GRT]

It's not unconstitutional, IMO. However, it's not the right place for this "rule" to happen. It should have been emergency legislation (which of course, the WH would never have allowed - WH wants to control what happens).

Or it could have been an executive order. It's quite clearly already in law that the Federal Government can enforce quarantines in health emergencies.

This is a health emergency.

The Federal Government can require many things in an emergency - WWI and WWII are good examples of that. People may not now remember that all young men were subject to draft processes up until 1973, IIRC. Actually physically drafted and sent to military training.

Not unconstitutional.

There's a good argument that it's unconstitutional, and you can download the actual lawsuit here, as it likely violates 42 U.S.C. § 264, 42 CFR 70.2, AND 5 U.S.C. § 706(2)(A) AND (C).

The problem is that the CDC overreached, and in doing so, created a financial problem for a specific grouping of citizens. That falls under the heading of "regulatory taking."

It's going to take a while for all these suits to trickle up to SCOTUS, and we'll just have to be patient.

On the quarantine thing -- yes, states have a right to quarantine sick individuals and the federal government has the right to shut state and federal borders to contain a pandemic.

What's in question is whether the state has a legal right to quarantine healthy people, which may also be deemed an infringement on their rights.

The simple fact is -- we really don't know what the rulings will be for a while, but when they're finally handed down, they will likely set precedent for future infections.

 

[Sprockett7701]

Landlords are suing the CDC for ban on evictions.

As an owner of rental property, I've been waiting to see when a suit would be filed. Thankfully, our renters are all paying on time, but if they weren't, we'd be in a world of hurt making the mortgage payments and utility payments on those properties without being able to recover any of the costs.

In my opinion -- the CDC has no right to tell property owners they must not evict a renter who is not paying. The only way that should ever be allowed is if the CDC is making the payments. This, MOO, comes under an unconstitutional "regulatory taking," and I'm watching this suit with interest.

The CDC has no right indeed, but when the person who does have the right is not stepping up to the plate and making these directives then what? The government in Aus has/had made provisions to stop evictions for non payment...so millions of people didn’t end up homeless ergo causing another problem...but then we don’t have police going out and sweeping the streets of homeless people and their possessions either so IDK...

 

[GRT]

It's entirely possible but people would have had to accept sacrifices in terms of what was immediately available for consumption. It would have taken a plan.

First, get the interior of the nation stocked up on essentials, then shut down interstate commerce for 3 weeks. Yep, it would be hard. In the fourth week, start running some trucks again. Trains could probably run the entire period. Airplanes should have been grounded for at least 2 weeks.

Then, gradual reopening and restocking, keeping an eye on the figure. CoVid was spread initially along the major interstates (and still is). Strict rules at borders could be implemented (many states already have border checks - all states could have made provisions for it. Make sure people know they have to have a mask when dealing with loading and unloading trucks (so many logistics/warehouse/transport workers have gotten CoVid).

It was entirely possible and other nations did it. If we'd had a good plan, we'd have done a semi-shutdown (not sending everyone home yet) in early March, then the stocking phase and warning people about PPE phase, then a lockdown in April. We never did a lockdown. Some states are off the beaten path and didn't get a lot of CoVId until quite recently - this could have been largely prevented.

Testing of logistic and transport workers could have been available by mid-April...we have the industrial capacity, but we didn't have the leadership or the will. And so, here we are.

On paper your plan sounds decent, but I'm not sure it would have worked back in March, seeing as China was still refusing to ship PPEs at that time. We've learned from that mistake and are now manufacturing our own safety wear and likely will for the forseable future.

You are correct about one thing -- people have to be able to accept sacrifice --but unfortunately, if the people we're talking about are Americans, it takes a concerted effort. So many Americans are suspicious of the government and, as we've discussed previously, they will dig in their heels rather than cooperate. It's much easier to convince citizens in a nation where the government is more authoritarian. Therein lies one of our larger problems.

 

[GRT]

The CDC has no right indeed, but when the person who does have the right is not stepping up to the plate and making these directives then what? The government in Aus has/had made provisions to stop evictions for non payment...so millions of people didn’t end up homeless ergo causing another problem...but then we don’t have police going out and sweeping the streets of homeless people and their possessions either so IDK...

It's a sticky wicket to be sure, and I'm just thankful our rentals are full and the renters are solid and paying. If they didn't pay, I have to wonder how we would pay the mortgages and utilities. Thankfully, we live in solid community.

I understand that we don't want homeless people, but when an agency, such as the CDC makes rules that can bankrupt certain citizens, it becomes an issue. This will be an interesting suit.

 

[10ofRods]

People who survive CoVid, even with mild symptoms, have brain issues/cognitive malfunction afterwards.

UK study shows a significant number of people have about a 10 point drop in IQ (and brain fog). This was distributed throughout the survivor population, including those who had mild symptoms. The people with milder symptoms had less of a drop in reasoning/critical thinking than those with more severe symptoms.

It's unknown how long this will last or whether it's permanent.

 

[Sprockett7701]

On paper your plan sounds decent, but I'm not sure it would have worked back in March, seeing as China was still refusing to ship PPEs at that time. We've learned from that mistake and are now manufacturing our own safety wear and likely will for the forseable future.

You are correct about one thing -- people have to be able to accept sacrifice --but unfortunately, if the people we're talking about are Americans, it takes a concerted effort. So many Americans are suspicious of the government and, as we've discussed previously, they will dig in their heels rather than cooperate. It's much easier to convince citizens in a nation where the government is more authoritarian. Therein lies one of our larger problems.

How does that correlate with New Zealand and Australia being two of the countries with the lowest death rates/infection rates...the government’s of the two are hardly known for being “authoritarian”...

IMO MOO

 

[margarita25]

Colorado Department of Public Health & Environment
@CDPHE
·
1h

"My story is a warning for young people: You can still face long-term consequences and side effects even if you don’t get severely sick with COVID-19. Please be safe and be smart. Continue to wear your masks, wash your hands, and avoid hanging out in big groups." #Covid19Colorado

—-

Colorado Department of Public Health & Environment
@CDPHE
·
3h

Vaccines take time to ensure they are safe and effective. While there aren't any COVID-19 vaccines approved for full use, there are several in clinical trials. You can track those vaccines here: https://nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html… #Covid19Colorado

—-

Denver returns to stricter COVID-19 restrictions as cases continue to surge

—-

Could COVID-19 shut down Colorado’s ski season before it even begins?
As three Front Range ski areas prepare to open, Summit County health official cites alarming increase in COVID-19 cases

 

[10ofRods]

On paper your plan sounds decent, but I'm not sure it would have worked back in March, seeing as China was still refusing to ship PPEs at that time. We've learned from that mistake and are now manufacturing our own safety wear and likely will for the forseable future.

You are correct about one thing -- people have to be able to accept sacrifice --but unfortunately, if the people we're talking about are Americans, it takes a concerted effort. So many Americans are suspicious of the government and, as we've discussed previously, they will dig in their heels rather than cooperate. It's much easier to convince citizens in a nation where the government is more authoritarian. Therein lies one of our larger problems.

So you actually think it would take a nation like the US months and months to make PPE? I don't agree. It would have been relatively easy (compared to all the other CoVId-related issues) to manufacture PPE. Of course, even better: we could have already had a plan and stockpiled some PPE. That's what earlier plans called for (the plans thrown out by the current administration).

At any rate, there's a giant paper manufacturing plant near my workplace that was and is capable of producing PPE - if only the government awarded contracts, instead of giving the PPE money to entities that have yet to produce any. Canada has the right idea (tag already existing industries):

PPE Manufacturer Announces New Facility in Canada

Canada probably could have done this more quickly as well. It all depends on national priorities.

I am not sure people in authoritarian nations are more "convinced," at all - they just find their choices quite limited if they don't go along with the program. But, for more compliant people, whatever the authoritarian government says - they do it. The rest get punished.

 

[margarita25]

Eli Lilly Ends Antibody Trial In Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients, Other Trials Go On

“Eli Lilly & Co. is ending a clinical trial of its antibody drug bamlanivimab in hospitalized COVID-19 patients after federal researchers concluded the therapy produced no marked improvement.“

—

Lilly antibody drug fails in study of hospitalized Covid patients, other trials go on
It's a setback for one of the most promising treatment approaches for Covid-19.
—-

No news on Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine is good news — and bad news

—-

Pfizer says no COVID-19 vaccine data yet, could be week or more before it reports

 

[Trino]

Good morning all: I have a question--- with my husband having a negative PCR test (nasal swab)- 2hour turnaround time and told he does not have Covid (but remains on Covid watch), should I go to the hospital to get a Chest CT? or should I cancel the appt and wait a week or two to have the Chest CT? thanks in advance for your advice.

I think we who are not doctors cannot give you advice. Perhaps you should call and ask someone in the know.

People who follow Trump believe what he says- they believe the numbers are "fake" and that the deaths are exaggerated ( i.e. heart attack death is being called death from Covid
because doctors get more money for Covid deaths- this is what Trump said)

There's a good argument that it's unconstitutional, and you can download the actual lawsuit here, as it likely violates 42 U.S.C. § 264, 42 CFR 70.2, AND 5 U.S.C. § 706(2)(A) AND (C).

The problem is that the CDC overreached, and in doing so, created a financial problem for a specific grouping of citizens. That falls under the heading of "regulatory taking."

It's going to take a while for all these suits to trickle up to SCOTUS, and we'll just have to be patient.

On the quarantine thing -- yes, states have a right to quarantine sick individuals and the federal government has the right to shut state and federal borders to contain a pandemic.

What's in question is whether the state has a legal right to quarantine healthy people, which may also be deemed an infringement on their rights.

The simple fact is -- we really don't know what the rulings will be for a while, but when they're finally handed down, they will likely set precedent for future infections.

But how can it be assured that a person is healty? Asymptomatic seems to counter that.

 

[GRT]

People who survive CoVid, even with mild symptoms, have brain issues/cognitive malfunction afterwards.

UK study shows a significant number of people have about a 10 point drop in IQ (and brain fog). This was distributed throughout the survivor population, including those who had mild symptoms. The people with milder symptoms had less of a drop in reasoning/critical thinking than those with more severe symptoms.

It's unknown how long this will last or whether it's permanent.

I'd be willing to bet that's not a peer-reviewed study.

I'm always leery of studies that claim to measure IQ, but especially when they claim there's a point drop if the person they're studying didn't take the test before becoming ill. Where is the qualifying standard?

Something as simple as not eating breakfast can have an impact on the test-taker.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

People who survive CoVid, even with mild symptoms, have brain issues/cognitive malfunction afterwards.

UK study shows a significant number of people have about a 10 point drop in IQ (and brain fog). This was distributed throughout the survivor population, including those who had mild symptoms. The people with milder symptoms had less of a drop in reasoning/critical thinking than those with more severe symptoms.

It's unknown how long this will last or whether it's permanent.

Probably more difficult to diagnose when you have brain issues/cognitive malfunction Prior to contracting the Virus. Sometimes contracting the Virus is a direct result of these brain/cognitive malfunction issues, as exhibited in recent weeks.

 

[GRT]

I think we who are not doctors cannot give you advice. Perhaps you should call and ask someone in the know.

But how can it be assured that a person is healty? Asymptomatic seems to counter that.

That's the question SCOTUS will probably eventually decide.

 

[margarita25]

New York:

All in-person SUNY students must be tested for COVID-19 before leaving for Thanksgiving break

New SUNY policy requires negative COVID-19 test for students leaving campus

All SUNY Students Must Test Negative for COVID Before Thanksgiving Break: Chancellor

—-

3M is making more N95 masks than ever as global Covid cases rise, CEO says

“Even so, shortages of personal protective equipment for health-care workers, including masks, have remained present during the pandemic. The issue is taking on renewed salience in the U.S. now as hospitalizations from Covid-19 are rising in 36 states.

Public health experts have stressed the importance of people wearing face coverings to slow transmission of the virus. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says the general public should not wear N95s in order to reserve the supply for health-care workers and first responders. Instead, the agency recommends people wear cloth face coverings.

In March, as the Covid-19 outbreak in the U.S. was worsening, some retailers were criticized for having N95 masks on their shelves. Roman acknowledged there is “strong consumer demand” for the respirator masks due to their reputation of being highly effective.

But he said 3M continues to direct its new supply toward hospital workers and other medical professionals. The company also is working alongside the Department of Health and Human Services to “make sure we’re focused on the hot spots,” Roman said.

“That still is the priority,” he added. “We’ll continue to look for ways to support consumers, and our consumer teams are looking at innovative, new mask kinds of solutions in addition to the N95 respirators, so we’ll work to respond to that, as well.”“

—

Is it safe to fly during COVID-19 pandemic? Two reports at odds
Low risk or dicey? Two new reports paint different pictures of COVID-19 danger while flying

—-

Minnesota:
COVID-19 in MN: Deaths, hospitalizations continue climb

 

[GRT]

So you actually think it would take a nation like the US months and months to make PPE? I don't agree. It would have been relatively easy (compared to all the other CoVId-related issues) to manufacture PPE. Of course, even better: we could have already had a plan and stockpiled some PPE. That's what earlier plans called for (the plans thrown out by the current administration).

At any rate, there's a giant paper manufacturing plant near my workplace that was and is capable of producing PPE - if only the government awarded contracts, instead of giving the PPE money to entities that have yet to produce any. Canada has the right idea (tag already existing industries):

PPE Manufacturer Announces New Facility in Canada

Canada probably could have done this more quickly as well. It all depends on national priorities.

I am not sure people in authoritarian nations are more "convinced," at all - they just find their choices quite limited if they don't go along with the program. But, for more compliant people, whatever the authoritarian government says - they do it. The rest get punished.

It didn't take months and months to gear up to make PPEs, but our health workers did suffer early on due to a lack of them.

 

[Trino]

Colorado Department of Public Health & Environment
@CDPHE
·
1h

"My story is a warning for young people: You can still face long-term consequences and side effects even if you don’t get severely sick with COVID-19. Please be safe and be smart. Continue to wear your masks, wash your hands, and avoid hanging out in big groups." #Covid19Colorado

—-

Colorado Department of Public Health & Environment
@CDPHE
·
3h

Vaccines take time to ensure they are safe and effective. While there aren't any COVID-19 vaccines approved for full use, there are several in clinical trials. You can track those vaccines here: https://nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html… #Covid19Colorado

—-

Denver returns to stricter COVID-19 restrictions as cases continue to surge

I absolutely agree with this, but how can tests be given to 12 year old kids (See previous post for source.).

 

[margarita25]

I'd be willing to bet that's not a peer-reviewed study.

I'm always leery of studies that claim to measure IQ, but especially when they claim there's a point drop if the person they're studying didn't take the test before becoming ill. Where is the qualifying standard?

Something as simple as not eating breakfast can have an impact on the test-taker.

You are correct that it has not been peer reviewed. However, this is not the first reference to the subject. Lack of oxygen to the brain, and other factors have been mentioned previously.

“A non-peer-reviewed study of more than 84,000 people, led by Adam Hampshire, a doctor at Imperial College London, found that in some severe cases, coronavirus infection is linked to substantial cognitive deficits for months.

“Our analyses ... align with the view that there are chronic cognitive consequences of having COVID-19,” the researchers wrote in a report of their findings. “People who had recovered, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits.”“

eta:

It didn't take months and months to gear up to make PPEs, but our health workers did suffer early on due to a lack of them.

Wrong. PPE has been a MAJOR ongoing issue, (understatement), and I can provide about 500 links to prove it.

 

[BUF]

It didn't take months and months to gear up to make PPEs, but our health workers did suffer early on due to a lack of them.

There was a US company that was ready to start pumping out N95s in January, but the government declined.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...6a821e-908a-11ea-a9c0-73b93422d691_story.html


In the early days of the pandemic, the U.S. government turned down an offer to manufacture millions of N95 masks in America