Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #90

[10ofRods]

This doesn’t surprise me at all, as it is what I’ve seen among healthcare workers across my company. When I suggested it here as a possibility that a significant number of healthcare workers weren’t going to jump right in line for the vaccine, I was pretty much told what I was seeing must be local or isolated or just people who say one thing but then would actually do another once the vaccine was actually available.

Instead, it looks like what I was seeing and hearing was spot on for what is actually happening in real time today. It was unfortunately much worse than I expected in terms of numbers of healthcare workers refusing the initial vaccine in my company. Only 25% of eligible staff opted to get the vaccine when dose one was offered last week. Some other facilities in my company saw higher participation, but none over 50-60%.

There is some extreme reluctance out there over this vaccine, even among healthcare workers. From what I’ve seen, it’s *mostly* those without a college degree who are outright refusing to be vaccinated, but not all. The lower level the degree, the less likely they are to have been vaccinated as well (so those with an associates were far less likely to get it than those with a bachelors or masters).

But it's still regional. We're hearing about the places where healthcare workers are hesitant, but in many places they are standing in line and/or demanding the vaccine (SF Bay Area is one).

I can't remember now where it was only 25% who opted to get the vaccine (I read about only one place where that was true).

Where, in general, is your company located, if you don't mind saying?

Here in California, we have places like Salinas where there's hesitancy. This doesn't surprise me as Salinas's pool of healthcare workers includes way more people who are vocational rather than R.N.'s. My own healthcare provider's hospitals will no longer put anyone without a Bachelor's in nursing onto infectious disease wards - but that's not typical. So Salinas is kind of the opposite of where I live (Los Angeles area).

At any rate, all the healthcare workers I know (and I know many) are impatiently waiting to get the vaccine, as are all the teachers I know. When we Zoom department meetings or Academic Senate meetings, it's a huge topic of conversation - everyone wants the vaccine ASAP.

So it is indeed the places with the less well-trained personnel who are refusing the vaccine -which makes sense to me. I spend time almost every day answering messages from people who are trying to understand how a vaccine works - it's really a shame that we don't have public education on health matters.

 

[10ofRods]

It may prove to be a terrible idea. My point was we won’t know unless someone asks the questions and medical doctors and scientists who do medical research actually look at finding an answer.

Unfortunately, with the disaster roll-outs we’ve been reading about in many states, I suspect we may find out whether we want to or not when there’s not enough second doses available in a timely manner to vaccinate all of those who have already gotten the first dose. Time will tell.

It's an odd thing to divert resources into, though. It will take another 6 months to 8 months to do that research (in other words, it's exactly like doing a new trial). People will have to be denied vaccine altogether and put in a placebo group and then two other branches of the study have to start - each with at least 10,000 people in them and with the very high risk that people in the placebo group and the 3 month wait group getting COVID (and transmitting it).

Since we already know how to make this 95% effective and the first trials showed clearly that 1 dose only gave 50% effectiveness, why would we do that? Why spend the millions needed to do that? Just produce more vaccine!!

 

[LadyL]

Canada's chief public health officer, Theresa Tam, said she is deeply concerned Canadians are still travelling for non-essential reasons, ignoring advice not to do so.

``I am asking Canadians to reassess any travel plans,'' she said.

Meanwhile, two Canadian Coast Guard vessels have been put under lockdown near the coast of Dartmouth, N.S., after they were exposed to a COVID-19 positive contractor. Testing of the crew has begun on both vessels.

Canada adds roughly 8,400 new coronavirus cases, shattering single-day record

 

[nightowl1975]

Just produce more vaccine!!

20 days til we have a new administration at work. I don’t think they’ll be able to magically produce 600+ million vaccines overnight either, but I would love to be proven wrong. It’s going to take months to get these vaccines produced and distributed to the point that anyone can get it whenever they want it. It’ll be very similar to the time it took to get testing off the ground and readily available.

 

[LadyL]

Who Is Most Likely to Die From COVID, According to CDC

 

[Marysmith]

It may prove to be a terrible idea. My point was we won’t know unless someone asks the questions and medical doctors and scientists who do medical research actually look at finding an answer.

Unfortunately, with the disaster roll-outs we’ve been reading about in many states, I suspect we may find out whether we want to or not when there’s not enough second doses available in a timely manner to vaccinate all of those who have already gotten the first dose. Time will tell.

Also, one crucial thing to note and emphasize with everyone regarding the comment that a nurse who got the vaccine now has covid.... many take this to mean either she got covid from the vaccine (impossible with this vaccine) or that the vaccine clearly doesn’t work at all if people are still getting covid (we cannot possibly judge this vaccines effectiveness mere days after it being administered, it’s not immediately effective).

I totally agree that it’s not a wise idea to divide up the 2 required dosing vaccines further than directed. If that’s the vaccine offered me I will not take it unless I have the confirmation that I will be getting the second dose on such and such date - which is what’s happened here so far, the 2nd vaccine date is preplanned.
Also the nurse that now has COVID that was vaccinated was getting the 2 doses required vaccine and had only gotten the 1st dose - thus further confirming our suspicions really.

 

[nightowl1975]

I totally agree that it’s not a wise idea to divide up the 2 required dosing vaccines further than directed. If that’s the vaccine offered me I will not take it unless I have the confirmation that I will be getting the second dose on such and such date - which is what’s happened here so far, the 2nd vaccine date is preplanned.
Also the nurse that now has COVID that was vaccinated was getting the 2 doses required vaccine and had only gotten the 1st dose - thus further confirming our suspicions really.

Do we know how many days elapsed between her getting the first dose and developing symptoms and testing positive? I got dose one on Monday 12/28. If I were to get sick today and test positive today/tomorrow/whenever I go get tested, it is HIGHLY likely I was exposed to covid before I ever got the shot. The *average* number of days from exposure to symptoms is 5, and it can take up to 14 days for symptoms to develop. Obviously a shot I received 4 days ago isn’t going to magically protect me from a virus I was exposed to 10-14 days ago. Or heck, even yesterday. Or today. Or tomorrow. It takes roughly 12-14 days for shot one to begin to decrease the risk of contracting covid.

Adding that I got dose one with the scheduled day for dose two planned at the time. However, it won’t shock me if there are issues with adequate doses being available for the second one. I would still opt to get the first one, even if the second one is delayed. And that’s coming from someone who really didn’t want the vaccine at all. Ultimately, it felt like the lesser of two evils for me.

 

[nightowl1975]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I don’t doubt for a second we will see many differences. I just don’t have any confidence whatsoever that any of these differences will result in hundreds of millions of vaccine doses being produced, distributed, and injected into US citizens in a matter of anything one might consider “immediate”.

It’s going to take months for that whole process to work, just like testing took an infuriatingly long amount of time to get out to the masses. Early on, it took 20+ days to get ONE test result (which was of course useless by that point). Now? We receive enough rapid tests to test all staff twice a week every single week like clockwork from who knows where, at no cost, from the government. We can send out PCR for confirmation and have results back in less than 24 hours. It’s a completely different world with testing compared to March/April/May/early June. I strongly suspect we will say the exact same thing about vaccines in 8-10 months.

 

[Marysmith]

Do we know how many days elapsed between her getting the first dose and developing symptoms and testing positive? I got dose one on Monday 12/28. If I were to get sick today and test positive today/tomorrow/whenever I go get tested, it is HIGHLY likely I was exposed to covid before I ever got the shot. The *average* number of days from exposure to symptoms is 5, and it can take up to 14 days for symptoms to develop. Obviously a shot I received 4 days ago isn’t going to magically protect me from a virus I was exposed to 10-14 days ago. Or heck, even yesterday. Or today. Or tomorrow. It takes roughly 12-14 days for shot one to begin to decrease the risk of contracting covid.

Adding that I got dose one with the scheduled day for dose two planned at the time. However, it won’t shock me if there are issues with adequate doses being available for the second one. I would still opt to get the first one, even if the second one is delayed. And that’s coming from someone who really didn’t want the vaccine at all. Ultimately, it felt like the lesser of two evils for me.

I hear you. It was 6 days - I just double checked.
I think this is where a lot of unknowns are... for myself I was tested 7 days apart for weeks and was positive the last test I had. No one else around me has become positive and I was with my boyfriend on day 3 of the last 7 day period and my child also slept with my twice during that period. They are both negative (and my boyfriend has followed the same testing schedule as he is an RN too). No one else in my life was positive although I had no close contact with anyone else. Therefore it seems like I contracted it at work on day 4 to 6 of the last testing period... as I didn’t work days 1 to 3 and there is tons of COVID where I work but of course that is not a for sure thing either...
so yes it’s possible this nurse got it before or after getting the vaccine IMO anyways...

 

[nightowl1975]

I hear you. It was 8 days I believe is what I read but I will double check.
I think this is where a lot of unknowns are... for myself I was tested 7 days apart for weeks and was positive the last test I had. No one else around me has become positive and I was with my boyfriend on day 3 of the last 7 day period and my child also slept with my twice during that period. They are both negative (and my boyfriend has followed the same testing schedule as he is an RN too). No one else in my life was positive although I had no close contact with anyone else. Therefore it seems like I contracted it at work on day 4 to 6 of the last testing period... but of course that is not a for sure thing either...
so yes it’s possible this nurse got it before or after getting the vaccine IMO anyways...

First, I hope your recovery is going/went well!! This is truly an evil virus in its unpredictability.

Second, if the newly vaccinated, now positive nurse was 8 days post-vaccine, the only thing it really confirms is what we already know about the vaccine: it takes 12-14 days for it to begin to reduce the risk of covid. If she was already testing positive on day 8 post-vaccine, that vaccine hadn’t had time to do her any good.

I’m definitely continuing to behave as if I haven’t been vaccinated at all... because of the obvious: it was 4 days ago! If anything, I’m even MORE cautious because I’ll be HIGHLY annoyed that I got a vaccine I really didn’t want, only to get covid in the next 6 weeks anyway, before it’s had a chance to fully protect me.

 

[Marysmith]

First, I hope your recovery is going/went well!! This is truly an evil virus in its unpredictability.

Second, if the newly vaccinated, now positive nurse was 8 days post-vaccine, the only thing it really confirms is what we already know about the vaccine: it takes 12-14 days for it to begin to reduce the risk of covid. If she was already testing positive on day 8 post-vaccine, that vaccine hadn’t had time to do her any good.

I’m definitely continuing to behave as if I haven’t been vaccinated at all... because of the obvious: it was 4 days ago! If anything, I’m even MORE cautious because I’ll be HIGHLY annoyed that I got a vaccine I really didn’t want, only to get covid in the next 6 weeks anyway, before it’s had a chance to fully protect me.

Totally! Be super safe - it’s so contagious!! I’m sure you are being - just saying... I thought I was too.

 

[margarita25]

I don’t doubt for a second we will see many differences. I just don’t have any confidence whatsoever that any of these differences will result in hundreds of millions of vaccine doses being produced, distributed, and injected into US citizens in a matter of anything one might consider “immediate”.

It’s going to take months for that whole process to work, just like testing took an infuriatingly long amount of time to get out to the masses. Early on, it took 20+ days to get ONE test result (which was of course useless by that point). Now? We receive enough rapid tests to test all staff twice a week every single week like clockwork from who knows where, at no cost, from the government. We can send out PCR for confirmation and have results back in less than 24 hours. It’s a completely different world with testing compared to March/April/May/early June. I strongly suspect we will say the exact same thing about vaccines in 8-10 months.

It is a huge undertaking indeed. At least we can be confident about commitment and effort, which goes a long way, imo.

 

[shadowdancer]

Totally! Be super safe - it’s so contagious!! I’m sure you are being - just saying... I thought I was too.

Me too! I sacrificed the Christmas I would have wanted to have to be as careful as possible, but I caught the virus anyway.

At least you know you are doing everything you can nightowl1975 to protect yourself and others. I have found one of the worst parts so far of testing positive, is the worry that I may have infected someone unintentionally before I found out.

 

[margarita25]

California:

“As the variant crops up in new states, officials in San Diego County, California, said the strain, which is sometimes known as B.1.1.7., has been identified in three more people in San Diego County, bringing the number of confirmed cases there to four.“

Covid variant found in Florida; more cases identified in California

Spiraling COVID-19 deaths leave morgues overflowing and funeral homes turning away grieving families

As Covid-19 hospitalizations rise, California doctor says sometimes beds only open up when patients die - CNN

Once a model, California now struggles to tame COVID-19

—

Tracking COVID-19
In California, updated January 1, 2021 at 11:00 AM with data from December 31, 2020

CASES
2,292,568 total
47,189 today
2.1% increase
from prior day total

DEATHS
25,971 total
585 today
2.3% increase
from prior day total

TESTS
33,058,311 total
202,829 today
0.6% increase
from prior day total

COVID19.CA.GOV

 

[Marysmith]

Me too! I sacrificed the Christmas I would have wanted to have to be as careful as possible, but I caught the virus anyway.

At least you know you are doing everything you can nightowl1975 to protect yourself and others. I have found one of the worst parts so far of testing positive, is the worry that I may have infected someone unintentionally before I found out.

There is also shame for lots of people in testing positive so I believe it’s helpful for us to come out and say we did the best we could and we still got it. We are all at risk every time we have any interaction and this is just life at this time. (A higher up became positive at my work place and their deflection and actually irresponsibility was so disgusting to see - I vowed to not be like that...)

 

[margarita25]

Nice:


The Latest: Tens of thousands on Vegas strip despite warning

 

[SouthAussie]

California:

“As the variant crops up in new states, officials in San Diego County, California, said the strain, which is sometimes known as B.1.1.7., has been identified in three more people in San Diego County, bringing the number of confirmed cases there to four.“

Covid variant found in Florida; more cases identified in California

Spiraling COVID-19 deaths leave morgues overflowing and funeral homes turning away grieving families

As Covid-19 hospitalizations rise, California doctor says sometimes beds only open up when patients die - CNN

Once a model, California now struggles to tame COVID-19

—

Tracking COVID-19
In California, updated January 1, 2021 at 11:00 AM with data from December 31, 2020

CASES
2,292,568 total
47,189 today
2.1% increase
from prior day total

DEATHS
25,971 total
585 today
2.3% increase
from prior day total

TESTS
33,058,311 total
202,829 today
0.6% increase
from prior day total

COVID19.CA.GOV

What the heck went wrong in California? Why are their cases blowing out like this?

 

[margarita25]

Colorado:


Jan. 1, 2020

Polis's easing of COVID-19 restrictions catches local health agencies off guard, raises "deep concerns"

Moving to phase 1B: CDPHE answers questions about COVID vaccine distribution | 9news.com


Dec. 31, 2020

UCHealth invites older Colorado residents to get COVID vaccine early

El Paso County moving to “Level Orange” on Monday, indoor dining will be allowed

COVID In Colorado: 70+ Age Group Moves Up, Questions Remain About Where To Get Vaccine


Dec. 30, 2020

The Small Colorado Town felt insulated from the Pandemic. Then Came the Coronavirus Variant.

Man who tested positive for more contagious coronavirus variant is Colorado National Guard soldier

All Colorado counties in ‘Red’ can move to ‘Orange’ on Monday to help businesses

COVID In Colorado: 70+ Age Group Moves Up, Questions Remain About Where To Get Vaccine

Colorado moves people 70 and older, teachers and grocery workers to higher COVID-19 vaccine priority – The Denver Post

 

[margarita25]

What the heck went wrong in California? Why are their cases blowing out like this?

I think population density may play a role (al though we know, this is not the only densely populated area in the country).

March 19, 2020

"The population density in the Los Angeles region is similar to New York City, (which) will be disproportionately impacted by the number of COVID- 19 cases,'' Newsom wrote.

Newsom: 56% of California Population Will Be Infected with Coronavirus

—

I also suspect the new variant may be contributing, jmo.

There also seems to be, imo, strong lack of cooperation among some citizens, which is happening in a lot of places, but I’ve noticed a lot of people in Southern California specifically being defiant and resistant to mitigation measures, jmo.

 

[SouthAussie]

Victoria is having the start of an outbreak again. This time, they are trying to jump on it quickly. It all stems from two groups who sat near each other in a restaurant.
Widespread testing is underway.


.... all 10 of the outbreak cases detected so far can be traced back to a restaurant dinner on December 21.

Two separate groups of diners sat down at adjacent tables at the Smile Buffalo Thai restaurant in Black Rock, in Melbourne's south-east, for a meal.

Three of those people have since tested positive to coronavirus, with the other seven cases linked as close contacts.

What we know about Victoria's coronavirus outbreak

It is just a little restaurant, and the tables adhere to the social distancing requirements.