Coronavirus Global Health Emergency, 2019-nCoV #2

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China, Desperate to Stop Coronavirus, Turns Neighbor Against Neighbor
“The authorities hunt for people from Wuhan, the center of the outbreak, encouraging citizens to inform on others. Even those without symptoms are being ostracized.”

[...]

“GUANGZHOU, China - One person was turned away by hotel after hotel after he showed his ID card. Another was expelled by fearful local villagers. A third found his most sensitive personal information leaked online after registering with the authorities.”

[...]

“All across the country, despite China’s vast surveillance network with its facial recognition systemsand high-end cameras that is increasingly used to track its 1.4 billion people, the government has turned to familiar authoritarian techniques — like setting up dragnets and asking neighbors to inform on one another — as it tries to contain the outbreak.”

[...]

“Local officials offered no explanation but returned a few days later to fasten police tape to his door and hang a sign that warned neighbors that a Wuhan returnee lived there. The sign included an informant hotline to call if anyone saw him or his family leave the apartment. Mr. Tang said he received about four calls a day from different local government departments.

“In reality there’s not much empathy,” he said. “It’s not a caring tone they’re using. It’s a warning tone. I don’t feel very comfortable about it.””

[...]

“In the eastern province of Jiangsu, quarantine turned to imprisonment after authorities used metal poles to barricade shut the door of a family recently returned from Wuhan. To get food, the family relied on neighbors who lowered provisions with a rope down to their back balcony, according to a local news report.”
-more at link

It is terrible the impact this horrendous situation is having. I’ve read in several in several articles that people from Whan are being shunned in China. I can understand the fear people must have of contracting the virus but you would hope there would be more empathy for your neighbours and citizens at this incredibly difficult time.

I can’t imagine living in a society where you are living in fear of your health, your neighbours reporting you and of your government. I think it is going to take China a long time to heal from this tragedy.
 
Coronavirus evacuees sprayed with DISINFECTANT as they arrive at quarantine in Indonesia from Wuhan

Coronavirus evacuees sprayed with DISINFECTANT as they arrive at quarantine in Indonesia from Wuhan

View attachment 229967

Has anyone read anything about any health risks with the amount of disinfectant people must be breathing in? I’m wondering how safe it is.

Greg, I was wondering about this last night when I posted the video of them spraying down passengers. It reminded me of the BP Oil Spill when they crop dusted the ocean and pumped Corexit (which is like roach spray) into the seabed, toxic to sea life.

I suppose it’s the lesser of the evils at this point. I doubt it’s “organic, plant based, all-natural” disinfectant, but who knows. As I mentioned last night, I am curious exactly what the chemical formula is that they’re spraying them with.
 
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China, Desperate to Stop Coronavirus, Turns Neighbor Against Neighbor
“The authorities hunt for people from Wuhan, the center of the outbreak, encouraging citizens to inform on others. Even those without symptoms are being ostracized.”

[...]

“GUANGZHOU, China - One person was turned away by hotel after hotel after he showed his ID card. Another was expelled by fearful local villagers. A third found his most sensitive personal information leaked online after registering with the authorities.”

[...]

“All across the country, despite China’s vast surveillance network with its facial recognition systemsand high-end cameras that is increasingly used to track its 1.4 billion people, the government has turned to familiar authoritarian techniques — like setting up dragnets ...

( snipped for brevity)

And here is yet another dose of reality: That it’s times like this where we see the best of humanity, and the worst.
 
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Gold Coast surgeon Dr Rhea Liang posted a tweet last week saying she was racially abused by a patient.

She wrote: 'Today a patient made jokes about not shaking my hand because of coronavirus. In front of my team.

'I have not left Australia. This is not sensible public health precautions. This is racism.'

Responding to her tweet, other doctors shared their experiences of racism.

Adelaide head and neck surgeon Guy Rees wrote: 'Patients [are] asking if they could get 'corona' by seeing a Chinese person or having a Chinese takeaway.'

Hundreds of people rushed to support Dr Rhea. 'I am horrified by your experience,' wrote one. 'Oh Rhea I'm so sorry,' said another.

Dr Rhea, who grew up in Auckland before moving to the Gold Coast, told Daily Mail Australia she was 'surprised and gratified by the largely supportive response'.

Coronavirus exposes Australia's racist underbelly | Daily Mail Online

This is horrendous. There are some really ignorant stupid people around racism in any form is inexcusable and reprehensible.
 
Well, it's official. The cruise ship that so far has had 10 people test positive is indeed going to be a floating quarantine for 14 days.

1h ago 22:20

The Carnival statement said the infected people will be taken ashore to Yokohama by the Japanese coastguard and taken to local hospitals. The ship will remain under quarantine off Yokohama for at least 14 days, as required by the ministry of health.

Coronavirus: cruise ship carrying 3,700 quarantined in Japan after 10 test positive

The ship’s owner, Princess Cruises, said 3,711 people were aboard the ship, consisting of 2,666 guests and 1,045 crew. About half of the passengers are from Japan, with 223 Australians on the vessel.
 
Well, it's official. The cruise ship that so far has had 10 people test positive is indeed going to be a floating quarantine for 14 days.

1h ago 22:20

The Carnival statement said the infected people will be taken ashore to Yokohama by the Japanese coastguard and taken to local hospitals. The ship will remain under quarantine off Yokohama for at least 14 days, as required by the ministry of health.

Coronavirus: cruise ship carrying 3,700 quarantined in Japan after 10 test positive

The ship’s owner, Princess Cruises, said 3,711 people were aboard the ship, consisting of 2,666 guests and 1,045 crew. About half of the passengers are from Japan, with 223 Australians on the vessel.
I would have major anxiety being stuck on a ship for an extra two weeks, no matter the reason. I feel for all those passengers who will not be able to handle it well at all. Of course, I would never trap myself on a cruise to begin with, so clearly my anxiety about being trapped is over the top compared with anyone who would be there in the first place (I avoid planes as well, but I can just manage to act human through one entire flight). But the next time my sister tries to convince me to go on a cruise with her, I’m bringing this up!
 
Suspected Coronavirus Case in New York Is Ruled Out

“A woman hospitalized in the city tested negative for the illness, officials said. Results are pending on tests for two other patients.”




https://nypost.com/2020/02/04/results-negative-for-first-nyc-patient-tested-for-coronavirus/
February 4, 2020

““We’re relieved to hear that the person in question does not have the novel coronavirus,” Mayor Bill de Blasio said in a statement.”




U.S. Readies for Coronavirus Pandemic Some Experts Now See as Likely
“This is about mitigation at this point.”

““It is not a matter of if—it is a matter of when,” said Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security and a spokesman for the Infectious Diseases Society of America. “There is not a doubt this is going to end up in most countries eventually.””

[...]

“Total containment isn’t in the cards, said Nancy Messonnier, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “Given the nature of this virus and how it’s spreading, that would be impossible. Our goal is to slow this thing down.””

[...]

“This is an unprecedented situation and we are taking aggressive measures,” she said. “We are preparing as if this were the next pandemic.””

[...]

“In China, cases are exploding. As of Wednesday morning China time, more than 24,000 people in the countrywere infected and at least 490 had died. Many Western researchers think the actual number of cases is many times higher. Overworked doctors at the epicenter face a shortage of testing kits and overcrowded hospitals, and can’t keep up with the number of cases.”

[...]

“Northwell Health, a 23-hospital system in New York with 800 outpatient facilities, began screening all patients for travel history to affected areas about two weeks ago, said Mark Jarrett, chief quality officer and deputy chief medical officer.

Patients who have recently been to China are given masks, brought to airborne isolation rooms and evaluated by staff wearing protective gear. And Northwell staff who encounter a suspected case of coronavirus have a central phone line to connect with senior clinicians who can help evaluate and make sure samples are sent to the CDC for testing.

In the event of widespread circulation, Northwell is planning “surge units” that will steer suspected cases to particular hospital wards, separated from others who might be vulnerable. It also has mobile tents that can be set up as field hospitals.

“If there’s a sudden surge of patients because of the fact that it’s that widespread, you clearly will never have enough airborne isolation rooms,” Jarrett said. “There just aren’t. No hospital has enough.””



Spreading Along With the Coronavirus: Confusion
Feb. 4, 2020

“People with travel plans to China and other Asian countries, are looking for answers about flight cancellations, refunds and, chiefly, safety.

As the coronavirus spreads across the world and airlines cancel flights to and from China, many travelers have been stuck in limbo. Some are trying to get refunds, while others are unsure of whether to rebook their trips for later dates or cancel them altogether.”



As deaths approach 500, no sign of a slowdown.

“The death toll from the monthlong coronavirus outbreak has continued to climb, rising to 490. New cases have surged by double-digit percentages in the past 11 days, with no sign of a slowdown.”

[...]

“Experts warn they still lack full data to say definitively how lethal the new coronavirus is. Many residents in Wuhan believe the death toll is much higher than the official tally because people with flulike symptoms are being turned away by overstretched hospitals. The health care system there is so overwhelmed that many cases are not diagnosed because of a shortage of testing kits.

The number of people recovering from the virus is also rising, suggesting that the treatment plan is working. On Tuesday, 262 people left the hospitals. The number of suspected cases has dropped for two days in a row. Officials said they were tracking 3,971 suspected cases, compared with 5,173 cases the day before.”

[...]

BBM:
“The government said it has put 252,154 people under surveillance.”

—-

Even Without Symptoms, Wuhan Coronavirus May Spread, Experts Fear

A report purporting to describe asymptomatic transmission in Germany has come under fire. But many experts still believe it’s happening.
Feb. 4, 2020

“Can individuals infected with the Wuhan coronavirus spread it to others even if they aren’t showing symptoms?

It’s one of the most important questions confronting scientists. If even asymptomatic people can spread the virus, then it will be much, much harder to slow its spread.

Doctors in China claimed asymptomatic transmission was possible, and a letter published Jan. 30 in the New England Journal of Medicine appeared to back them up.”

[...]

“But now health officials in Germany have raised doubts about the accuracy of that report. The visitor to Germany had “mild unspecific symptoms” while she was still in Germany, said Marieke Degen, a spokeswoman with the Robert Koch Institute, Germany’s public health institute, headquartered in Berlin.”

[...]

“Health officials reported their findings last week to the Early Warning and Response System of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, Ms. Degen said; their criticism was first reported by Science magazine.”

[...]

BBM:

““This paper may or may not be flawed — it needs further investigation,” said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. “But I don’t think it negates the concept.”

“We had been getting reports from highly reliable people in China — scientists, investigators and public health people who we’ve known over the years — and they’ve been telling us, ‘There’s asymptomatic disease, for sure, and we are seeing asymptomatic transmission,’” Dr. Fauci said.

Asymptomatic transmission is unlikely to be driving the epidemic within China, he added, but “it complicates our job.””

* I am so glad to see Dr. Fauci comment on the report from Science Magazine. I wasn’t expecting him to respond directly to the contrary report when we were discussing this last night.
 
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Things to consider in regard to planes: (moo , Jmo, etc)

DO DISINFECTING WIPES WORK? Not necessarily.

➤ Many people mistakenly believe that disinfectants work instantly on contact. Truth is, they don’t. They have to be used exactly as directed in order to work. The process of disinfecting means a surface must first be cleaned, then the wet disinfectant applied and allowed to sit for a “dwell time,” allowed to dry, and rinsed clean. Only then will the surface be very temporarily free of most germs.
➤ All disinfectants have “dwell” times. Many require minutes at a time to be effective. Read the product label and use exactly as directed. Simply wiping will not disinfect, yet this is how the product is almost always used. Read the directions on the Lysol and Clorox wipes’ labels.
➤ Also...

We know that this virus is resistant to treatment, so I’m not going to be overconfident that it will be killed with the use current disinfectants.

I want to see the data on it. They are telling us the virus can live on surfaces 5 days (but length time is variable).

In my imaginary world, they’d disinfect, but they’d also take the planes out of rotation for 5 days...

eta: bullets sourced fromhttp://www.healthyschools.org/data/files/Disinfecting_Wipes_Guide.pdf

and Clorox label
 
Well, it's official. The cruise ship that so far has had 10 people test positive is indeed going to be a floating quarantine for 14 days.

1h ago 22:20

The Carnival statement said the infected people will be taken ashore to Yokohama by the Japanese coastguard and taken to local hospitals. The ship will remain under quarantine off Yokohama for at least 14 days, as required by the ministry of health.

Coronavirus: cruise ship carrying 3,700 quarantined in Japan after 10 test positive

The ship’s owner, Princess Cruises, said 3,711 people were aboard the ship, consisting of 2,666 guests and 1,045 crew. About half of the passengers are from Japan, with 223 Australians on the vessel.

Oh my. I cannot imagine being on that cruise and being stuck on the ship for 14 more days when you probably expected to be going home.

Hopefully the crews will make the passengers as comfortable as possible.

I am assuming the ship will be anchored and standing still and that will make it worse on the passengers. When normally they are crossing open seas, it at least gives a nice break between ports but if it is anchored and just sitting, that will make it worse.

Prayers for all the passengers. Hope nobody else gets sick on the boat.
 
Re: airlines disinfected.
It isn’t just the planes. It’s also the waiting room areas, airport restrooms, railings, even someone near you as you travel.

So true. The sheer number of surfaces that could have germs in a public area like an airport is mind boggling when you really start to think about it. From doors to enter, gates to get past, seats with armrests in waiting areas, food and snack places, etc. Its overwhelming to try to clean everything.

Imagine even if you are selected for additional pat down search by a TSI agent. How many people did he/she touch before patting you down. They may have rubber gloves on the TSI agent but I would guess they dont use brand new gloves for each person they have to pat down. So even if the TSI agent has gloves on, that is to mainly protect themselves and not the person being patted down.

The economic impact to China and other countries now is getting out of hand. If these border blocks and other things continue to go on, then it wont be long till the normal consumer (us) will start to notice the effects. We already saw it here in the U.S. with the run on masks. Im going to be paying attention to see if we spot other direct impacts to the consumer.

Oh, here is one big impact for an example. I just heard about this one yesterday. Some automobile manufacturing plants are slowing down production because they cannot get the right car parts that are built in China. Thats a big deal because it is less cars being made, sold, and directly reducing income to the company. Which in turn could mean layoffs of people if this continues. Ugggg.

Virus Outbreak Disrupts Global Car Makers in China

Virus Exposes Cracks in Carmakers’ Chinese Supply Chains
 
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Boy, eight, becomes the third person to be diagnosed with coronavirus in Queensland after travelling to Australia with a Chinese tour group

Boy, eight, becomes the third person to be diagnosed with coronavirus | Daily Mail Online

I really hope this young man recovers.

It's scary enough for anyone to be in one of those isolation rooms, and the medical staff only entering when they're fully suited up. But I feel so awful for a little boy his age to be in that situation :(
 
“Researchers at the University of Hong Kong say more than 75,000 individuals could already be infected with the virus, much higher than the official total. Raymond James analyst Chris Meekins believes infections are likely above 100,000.

"Based on the current trajectory of the virus, [the R naught] should be higher than SARS," Huang said.

It's also possible the R naught estimate could decrease or differ, depending on how well other countries contain local outbreaks, according to Marc Lipsitch, a professor of epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health.“
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEOICQx06a2O2dSDgxiCXeuoqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow2Nb3CjDivdcCMP3ungY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en



Seems to me that the latest news is conflicting- some stuff downplaying the virus and others saying its worse than originally thought o_O I guess more time is needed.

News on the virus seems sparse today. I would have thought more US cases would have cropped up by now. Wonder where the updates are for all the cases that have been “pending”? Seems like the CV news has crept to the bottom of the page with the election stuff.

I think it's far worse in Hubei province than anyone expected it to get so fast. Outside of Hubei the numbers seem much more manageable. So in somewhere like the UK or US they're downplaying it because there's no need to ramp up fear for a situation that is quite minor right now in those--and similar--countries. But in Hubei it has totally overwhelmed the healthcare system and it sounds terrible there :(
 
Yes. The domino effect will certainly start playing out. Lives will be changed. Layoffs have already started. Automakers, Apple. Starbucks. McDonalds and many many more. All shutting down in China. Can you even fathom how many jobs we're talking about here? How many people quarantined without an income?
50 million quarantined = no income. I hope China steps up and gives money to it's citizens. It is a rich country. Right?

So true. The sheer number of surfaces that could have germs in a public area like an airport is mind boggling when you really start to think about it. From doors to enter, gates to get past, seats with armrests in waiting areas, food and snack places, etc. Its overwhelming to try to clean everything.

Imagine even if you are selected for additional pat down search by a TSI agent. How many people did he/she touch before patting you down. They may have rubber gloves on the TSI agent but I would guess they dont use brand new gloves for each person they have to pat down. So even if the TSI agent has gloves on, that is to mainly protect themselves and not the person being patted down.

The economic impact to China and other countries now is getting out of hand. If these border blocks and other things continue to go on, then it wont be long till the normal consumer (us) will start to notice the effects. We already saw it here in the U.S. with the run on masks. Im going to be paying attention to see if we spot other direct impacts to the consumer.

Oh, here is one big impact for an example. I just heard about this one yesterday. Some automobile manufacturing plants are slowing down production because they cannot get the right car parts that are built in China. Thats a big deal because it is less cars being made, sold, and directly reducing income to the company. Which in turn could mean layoffs of people if this continues. Ugggg.

Virus Outbreak Disrupts Global Car Makers in China

Virus Exposes Cracks in Carmakers’ Chinese Supply Chains
 
Things to consider in regard to planes: (moo , Jmo, etc)

DO DISINFECTING WIPES WORK? Not necessarily.

➤ Many people mistakenly believe that disinfectants work instantly on contact. Truth is, they don’t. They have to be used exactly as directed in order to work. The process of disinfecting means a surface must first be cleaned, then the wet disinfectant applied and allowed to sit for a “dwell time,” allowed to dry, and rinsed clean. Only then will the surface be very temporarily free of most germs.
➤ All disinfectants have “dwell” times. Many require minutes at a time to be effective. Read the product label and use exactly as directed. Simply wiping will not disinfect, yet this is how the product is almost always used. Read the directions on the Lysol and Clorox wipes’ labels.
➤ Also...

We know that this virus is resistant to treatment, so I’m not going to be overconfident that it will be killed with the use current disinfectants.

I want to see the data on it. They are telling us the virus can live on surfaces 5 days (but length time is variable).

In my imaginary world, they’d disinfect, but they’d also take the planes out of rotation for 5 days...

eta: bullets sourced fromhttp://www.healthyschools.org/data/files/Disinfecting_Wipes_Guide.pdf

and Clorox label

I believe the bbm is a misunderstanding. Yes, viruses are killed by disinfectants (when used according to the directions and not simply wiped over like you would a normal cleaning spray) and there's no reason to suspect that this coronavirus is any different from any other coronavirus in that regard.

But you can't do the same when the virus is inside the body. Inside the body you're restricted to general antiviral treatments and treatment of the symptoms. And some of those symptoms are actually caused by the way that the immune system responds to the virus. Fever, for instance, isn't caused by a virus, it's caused by the body trying to respond to the virus.
 
Before I came to the forum today, I checked the BBC news website for new stories.

This one is extremely sad and disturbing. An interview with a lady in Wuhan who has already lost her uncle to Coronavirus, her parents are sick, and now she is showing some symptoms. She explains to the BBC how hard it is for someone who's confirmed infected to get a hospital bed.

Wuhan resident: 'I'd rather die at home'
 
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