Couple who adopted 12 children shot to death #1

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You know something, I may put my foot in mouth here for a moment.... Maybe I like to believe the good in people. Because a crime was commited I know we mainly jump into the victims being up to "no good" and why could they have been retaliated against. As a sleuther I understand we do need to throw anything and everthing out there. But in my heart of hearts I am not feeling it on the case. Money does evil things to people. I am not bringing politics into this but isn't this the same as socialism? Socialist believe the wealth should share their money with them because they are not as wealthy...okay, so that is the political spectrum avenue...now let's go down the alley of the same mindset in a criminal world. People become resentful of others with money ie: class warfare and feel they deserve that kind of money or money to be shared with them to possibly promote what they would consider a better cause in one owns life. Maybe one of these suspects knew of the victim, knew he had money etc.. Maybe had some business tie that hasn't been tracked down yet, maybe he worked for cash for a few days for the victim so he isn't as easily traceable. Then we have this entire "underworld" of low lifes that might each have their own motive. One person can touch a lot of people, such as the theory of 6 degress of seperation. Therefore, the Billings being so prominent in their community, having business interests etc.. The DEGREES are endless as to how these people became involved with wanting to commit a crime against the Billings and they may just be what they are. Victims, Good People, and Innocent of all wrong doing except working hard and making a extrodonary living!! *Takes Foot Out of Mouth Now* All IMO, but subject to change at anytime - just what I am feeling today.

Well, I really doubt that any political theorist would equate socialism with condoning cold-blooded murder. Socialist theory doesn't say anything at all about "give some to me because you're more wealthy." What it says is, "Each according to ability and each according to need." Families, for example, are the ultimate in socialist units: if one kid needs braces and the other doesn't, then one kid gets more of the family's dental fund spent on him. The baby still gets to eat, even though he doesn't bring in money from a paper route like the 12 yr-old does--both of them need to eat, even though one produces wealth and the other just lays there and sponges off the rest of the family in a cute and drooly fashion. That's what socialism is, at least in its purest theoretical form.

I imagine any Socialist with a true understanding of political theory would look at the perpetrators--who have the resources to have a ginormous 15-passenger van in running order, and look at the Billings--who have a large family with huge medical needs--and say that the Billings were, in fact, in greater need, and that therefore the greater distribution was just. A socialist would NOT say, give some to the criminal, nor would a socialist even recognize the steps that it took to equate one to the other. Robin Hood is a myth, and it's doubtful that any criminal who tries to use that as an excuse actually has any real understanding of Das Kapital.

I understand (I think) what you're trying to say about the criminal underworld and its justifications, but anyone who knows anything about socialism would likely place the criminal justification mindset and roots of class warfare (at least in the US) at the feet of Capitalism and its predecessor, the Puritan Work Ethic and the history of Calvinism--at least as much as they would socialism or any other political theory.

Of course, like any theory, socialism in it's "purest" theoretical form, and what big-S Socialism mutates into when practiced as a form of government, are two different things. Because whenever you bring humans and human self-interest into any theory or system, it all turns into one big Lord of the Flies. So I suppose in that sense, you're correct.

(Sorry to go off on a tangent there, but my particular pet peeve is when terms with a long and particular history get thrown around completely devoid of accurate context. Spent too many years correcting shallow grasps of theory on essays, I suppose.)

I also understand what you're saying about the danger of seeming to blame the victim. But the first thing any profiler or investigator will do is look for lifestyle and character clues, because that helps narrow down who has access and motive. That's not the same thing as saying that a victim "had it coming." It's just common sense: a meth addicted prostitute probably, in an average day, runs into more dangerous situations and people who have demonstrated a willingness to commit violence, than does my church-going grandma. Doesn't mean that the meth ho had it coming, or that my grandma is inherently a better person, or somehow immune to crime. Just that if it looks like my grandma was killed by someone who had a key to the house, that the seamy world of meth labs is probably not the first place you need to look. Likewise, if a meth-addicted prostitute is murdered by someone who had easy access to her house, "long-running feud over who gets to play the organ at Mass next Sunday" is probably not where you need to concentrate most of your police resources. It's like any diagnostic procedure: if the patient is coughing, the first thing you ask is, "Do you smoke?" Doesn't mean you're saying, "OMG, I can't believe you smoke! That's so trashy! You're a sinner!" It just means that certain things are statistically more likely to cause coughing in a smoker vs. a non-smoker. Same thing here.


And....it looks like I'm jumping all over you, and I honestly didn't mean to. Just too much time on my hands (and too weary from grading a long stack of essays) today, maybe. Putting my own foot in my mouth, I guess--
 
The sheriff talked about the family and their connections on the Today Show video linked earlier. He said (paraphrased) that you look at the victims lifestyle, associates, etc. He pretty much said that there was nothing criminal to find about the Billings and their associates.

I'll go listen to it again to be sure I am remembering that part correctly.
 
Mouse, I don't take any offense. I appreciate your viewpoint. I don't have all day to write long theories, have two kids to chase after as well so I try to belt out my thoughts and then chase ;) Not going to respond about the socialism as I don't want this thread to get off track ;) Technically, you are 100 percent correct. But as you know there are many people that do not understand the complete gist of socialism. So, my short and sweet version was from how I was feeling about the situation and how it could be viewed from a criminal mind standpoint. And in my opinon the simpletons would just prefer people share their wealth.

Also, I agree that the victims lives should be divulged in!!!! 100 percent!! If you read above though you see it was just a "feeling" I had about this case. Just own thought. and that is why I wrote I might put my foot in my mouth, because we know facts aren't feelings :)
 
Why all the cams:


The extensive surveillance system that captured the break-in was installed to help them keep track of their children as they wandered through the large house and yard, said Susan Berry, principal of Escambia Westgate School in Pensacola, which some of the children attended.

"Some of the children were very inquisitive, as all children are curious," Berry said. "They wanted to make sure they had an eye on the children."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iTAOQx619OXpq7P0Jcpzqc9Zg-cwD99DNBB80
 
When is the media gonna break the news about Patrick Poff? Or, do they not read their own message boards?

Jeez-O-Flip!!

Sorry for the rant, I'm still distressed that this guy lives just a few neighborhoods over from me.
 
Does anyone have the Billings address on hand??
 
Ok, here's what the sheriff said (paraphrased):

This crime is being viewed as a hateful and senseless act on a family who opened their fortune and their home to special needs children. They wouldn't be picked for this crime for their lifestyle or the area of town they live in or the people they hang out with or the group of associates they have.

This family would never, never, be a victim of a crime like this. It's just a senseless act.
 
The sheriff talked about the family and their connections on the Today Show video linked earlier. He said (paraphrased) that you look at the victims lifestyle, associates, etc. He pretty much said that there was nothing criminal to find about the Billings and their associates.

I'll go listen to it again to be sure I am remembering that part correctly.

I heard it, too. He specifically said that the Billings were not involved in anything criminal and that they were good people. He also said that the suspects did not know the victims.
"Morgan said the investigation involves a complex web of relationshipsbetween suspects, though he declined to elaborate on them. He said it did not appear that the suspects knew the victims. "
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31887302/ns/today_people/
 
I have never heard of these suspects before today. Local speculation is all over the chart; There has only been one person that I've heard speculate that this was a business related retaliation.
The Billings are well know here in P'cola. I have never heard anything negative about them; ever. They are well loved by the community.
Just FYI, "Beulah" is the community where we live, but out physical addresses are "Pensacola, FL 32526".
I know this sounds crazy, but today my friend and I drove by the street where the red van was found...its not far from where I work! We were headed out to do some shopping and its literally right on the way. Nothing suspicious was going on; mostly run down homes, trailers, a few older homes that the older owners are trying their best to maintain. My husband who is a native of Pensascola explained to me that this was once a fairly decent part of town. Nothing I could see except for one guy out mowing his lawn!
I know all this info may not help too much but I'm more than happy to try and "paint a clearer picture" of this from a locals standpoint! I'm now anxiously waiting for news tomorrow!

I also live in Beulah only blocks from these senseless murders.

Beulah is such a small community that anytime something happens your bound to have met the person at Tom Thumb, etc...

I need to talk with my brother in law, he said he use to work for them at a hunting lease they shared ownership, located right over the Fl/Bama line.
 
Welcome PCOla, we appreciate the local insight.

I agree with you about the how paths can cross but not actually be completely connected!!
 
Just thought of something else! Is it possible these suspects could have been involved in Identity theft of some sort??? I know we threw around the stolen car ring... Is it possible they could have stolen the identies of the Billings???
 
Here's the written statement from the family

http://www.pnj.com/assets/pdf/DP138461713.PDF

So, sad! I also have a tradition of letting my kids open one present Xmas Eve.

My thoughts and prayers are with the Billings family.

What a heart-touching statement this was. It brought tears to my eyes. It is so wonderful that Ashley seems committed to fulfilling the legacy of her parents' wishes.

May God bless each and every one of these children.
 
Hello, all -

Been following this all night, but just got my acceptance email.

I've noticed something in LPG Jr.'s blog entries, but didn't realize its significance until after a while:

Count how many spelling errors there are in his blog posts. There AREN'T ANY (that I could find). He is NOT an edumacated man. I will bet that he is a psychotic narcissist (that's obvious from all the fake friends he puts on his multiple Facebook pages) who has OCD, which compels him to try to appear sophisticated and educated. Even though he travels in circles that are not sophisticated (at all), his inner compulsion forces him to make sure all appearances are correct.

The Obsessiveness about his daughter is pathological. I am willing to bet that he has been working in a criminal enterprise for years, to pay for the facade he is trying to maintain.

An example - he was arrested at or near his home in Gulf Breeze. I used to live in Pensacola. I know Gulf Breeze. It's a nice community. People like LPG Jr. do not normally live there. I think he was satisfying his need to be respected and envied, even.

And gawwwwd.... did you catch the smirk in his booking photo? Jeeeeezzz.....


Later,

Chuck

Welcome Chuck. I agree with your assessment of this guy. He sounds SO MUCH like my crazy ex husband. Does anyone know why he lost his daughter? My ex husband only worked as a dj, on weekends, however he ran for Mayor, he was a memeber of the BBB, he supposedy sold real estate, and once owned a BMW. All this before I married him. He had pics and plaques all over his house when I met him though I never saw any of this nor did he ever have any job other than his dj weekend work. He also had a never ending banckruptcy that he and his lawyer just laughed about. He would go out and buy things and just add tot he banckrupcty. Now 20 years later (I divorced him after 5 months) I have seen him on the web supposedly owning a Benz, and several old restored classic Jags. He also has ordained himself a minister. WHat a crock of ****E that is. He had a son who I have thought about often. Tha son is now 25. SO I looked my previous stepson up on facebook and found him. We emailed back and forth and he told me his father had been using his ss# for years running up all kinds of debt in his name. As well as other things I cannot mention. This ex emailed me on facebook threatening me for contacting his son. Then he contacted my husband and told him to "control his wife". THis man sounds just as crazy as my ex husband. Oh and my ex made up at least three false names on facebook trying to get into my facebook account to see my kids and husband. There are some real nut jobs out there.
 
When is the media gonna break the news about Patrick Poff? Or, do they not read their own message boards?

Jeez-O-Flip!!

Sorry for the rant, I'm still distressed that this guy lives just a few neighborhoods over from me.

Actually, isn't he referenced as "Little Poff" in the article referenced below in the PNJ? He's being held at the Santa Rosa county jail. Is this the guy you are talking about?

"Gonzalez Jr., who's known as "Little Poff," was being held in Santa Rosa County Jail on Sunday night. His bond was set at $1 million."


http://www.pnj.com/article/20090713...=0x+IeOopxCi6MwAylaLEKyMBHyEF6JKjt87g1kdZwbk=
 
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