Couple who adopted 12 children shot to death #3

[kc1234]

FYI, I have family in and around Fort Walton Beach, I grew up there, and I used to live in Pensacola. One of my immediate family members has a circle of friends who knows the GS suspect. My family member used to be in the low rider car scene. This group associates with other custom car groups. They have clicks and clubs and there is a lot of drugs. I have know several in the group who were busted for large quantities of drugs. Everyone in this car show scene knows everyone else. Many in these groups have their own car shops, work for major international car dealerships and local mom and pop type dealerships.

 

[mfcmom]

Good day all. Thank you to Ms. Herkel for her insight. Okay all you supersleuths, I have a question Looking at the trees instead of the forest. In and out in 4 minutes. How did they know there was a safe? And how did they know it was in bedroom? I can't even find my teeth at 5 am in four minutes when I get up and my house is a lot smaller than that one. Just curious and suspect that someone had been in that home before? What do you think?

 

[Gene]

In regards to the article saying that they were possibly in some sort of financial trouble could that be why they have set up a trust? Typically you dont see that when dealing with 'well-off' families. Just a thought, could be nothing.

I think that was pure speculation. There is no evidence that the Billings family was in financial trouble. I think that the writer of the article made the assumption that since they sued for custoday and for child support, that this meant that they NEEDED the money.

Another possibility is that they were trying to give a better life to their grandchildren and at the same time force the parents to assume their responsibility.

From what I have read about Bud Billings, I think he had a soft side but that he could be tough when he needed to be.

 

[Reannan]

I have also been perplexed at what happened right after the murders and the theft. The 7 guys get the safe, and hand it over to Pam L.??? Gosh, they sure did trust her!! That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Where did they go to open the safe? Maybe the reason there wasn't a lot of gold or cash in the safe is because whoever was supposed to have disabled the security system had already snuck into the house, removed the really valuable items from the safe, and then intentionally left the security cameras in working order so that someone else would take the heat for the robbery. In other words, the 7 ninja-burglars got robbed! My prayers are with the family and friends of the Billings today, as well as with the family and friends of the people who have been arrested. There are no winners anywhere in this tragic case.

 

[nmr00]

I feel like it could be one of two things. A part of me thinks that the perps really were that dumb, thought that there was going to be a lot of money or something valuable, lured a bunch of people together (like a 16 year old) to commit the crime with hopes of jewels, wealth, etc. and that there really was no reason more than that for this crime.

But at the same time, a part of me doubts this given PL's involvement - if it was a simple robbery, what in the world does this lady have to do with it? This complicates matters quite a bit as she seemed like the ringleader almost or at least someone with a major contribution to this horrific crime. But why? If it was a simple robbery, it doesnt make sense.

God bless the Billings' souls.

 

[grace60]

Keep an eye on HLN. they just had a interview with Gonzales Jr's sister. Not flattering at all.

 

[LaceSprocket]

from the link:
Gonzalez, Jr. received $150,000 for providing "intelligence" services from January through April of 2008, according to Jenkins.

Does this statement mean that Jr. "declared himself" to be an informant? Sorry, I'm not seeing that.

Jenkins was LPG Jr.'s criminal defense attorney in that case. He was simply re-stating what LPG Jr. told him. So in my mind, yes, he declared himself a paid informant - to his own attorney.

I believe the idea of him being a paid informant was clear speculation from a post from the last thread, cuz the court records showed he changed his name during a misdemeanor case. However, he had actually legally changed his name 2 years before that case.

He changed his name in 2000 . http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml_or_1b.asp?uinstr=2000752390

That's when he reconnected with this bio father (L. Patrick Sr.) while they were in jail together. He changed his name after that.

He told his own attorney about being a paid informant in Oct. 2008.
He claims he did that from Jan - April of 2008.

ETA: I'm trying to say that he was already "Gonzalez" during the time he claims he was an informant. But the time lines just don't add up regarding speculation about why he changed his name. That's all I'm saying. :crazy:

 

[Lindadanette]

Linda - Can you give a link for this? TIA!

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xml.asp?ucase_id=15205678
[SIZE=-1]07/15/1992 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] COMPLETE PSYCOLOGICAL EVALUATION[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] 06/17/1996 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] INITIAL APPEARANCE FOR: BATTERY ON CORRECTIONS OFFICER[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Court[/SIZE] [SIZE=-2]ASSAULT OR BATTERY ON OFFICER ETC[/SIZE] [SIZE=-2]PLED NOLO OR GUILTY[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]11/14/1996[/SIZE]

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xm...terange=0&ucasetype=&uagencynbr=&uagencytype=

Pure speculation - But I have experience with a clinical psychopath. They are able to function (relatively) when they are on medication - but fall apart when they discontinue the medication. They begin to have symptons and self-medicate with alcohol or drugs which only intesifies the psychosis. They become increasing weird until they have an episode. They become a serious danger and the authorities are called. It appears that Lpatrick attacked the first responders - but, of course I could be wrong.

 

[LaceSprocket]

RF the 16 suspect's father name is in the this video:
http://oncoreweb.srccol.com/oncoreweb/showdetails.aspx?id=9714232&rn=12&pi=0&ref=search

A search of the Okaloosa County records shows someone with the same name as the father with several narcotic charges (selling and manufacturing). In the video above, RF father states they are afraid of getting killed than of police and the justice system.

The link isn't to a video. It links to Sumner's military discharge public record. :waitasec:

 

[kc1234]

The link isn't to a video. It links to Sumner's military discharge public record. :waitasec:

Sorry, copied and pasted the wrong link. Try this one:
http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_2763.shtml

 

[daisy7]

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xml.asp?ucase_id=15205678
[SIZE=-1]07/15/1992 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] COMPLETE PSYCOLOGICAL EVALUATION[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] 06/17/1996 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] INITIAL APPEARANCE FOR: BATTERY ON CORRECTIONS OFFICER[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Court[/SIZE] [SIZE=-2]ASSAULT OR BATTERY ON OFFICER ETC[/SIZE] [SIZE=-2]PLED NOLO OR GUILTY[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]11/14/1996[/SIZE]

Pure speculation - But I have experience with a clinical psychopath. They are able to function (relatively) when they are on medication - but fall apart when they discontinue the medication. They begin to have symptons and self-medicate with alcohol or drugs which only intesifies the psychosis. They become increasing weird until they have an episode. They become a serious danger and the authorities are called. It appears that Lpatrick attacked the first responders - but, of course I could be wrong.

Thanks, Linda. But, I was hoping for a link about Jr. being Baker Acted as you posted about last night. Being ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation is definitely not the same as being Baker Acted.

TIA!:blowkiss:

 

[UnderDog]

The major effort in sleuthing should be discovering the person that was supposed to disable the surveillance system. LE says they know this person's identity and they expect an arrest early next week.

 

[Lindadanette]

Thanks, Linda. But, I was hoping for a link about Jr. being Baker Acted as you posted about last night. Being ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation is definitely not the same as being Baker Acted.

TIA!:blowkiss:

Yes, I know. The subsequent arrests show battery on a Fireman./officer, and this happens frequently during a Baker Act arrest. There won't be any record of Baker Acting on line.

 

[LaceSprocket]

ETA: ooops, I replied too quick. Lindadanette already responded.

If I'm not mistaken, if you're Baker Acted, that falls under protection from HIPPA laws. However, if he was Baker Acted, there should be an accompanying police report. :waitasec: I believe the police or EMT are the ones who have the power to Baker Act someone.

It would assume he was Baker Acted before, because he's being held in a suicide unit in jail.

 

[pattieandco]

Sorry, copied and pasted the wrong link. Try this one:
http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_2763.shtml

How sad. Despite any record his family may have it is sad to see a young kid get wrapped up in all of this. Even worse the fact that he has a baby of his own. And who is to say what will happen if any or all of them are ever released from prison... will they retaliate against eachother?

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I have also been perplexed at what happened right after the murders and the theft. The 7 guys get the safe, and hand it over to Pam L.??? Gosh, they sure did trust her!! That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Where did they go to open the safe? Maybe the reason there wasn't a lot of gold or cash in the safe is because whoever was supposed to have disabled the security system had already snuck into the house, removed the really valuable items from the safe, and then intentionally left the security cameras in working order so that someone else would take the heat for the robbery. In other words, the 7 ninja-burglars got robbed! My prayers are with the family and friends of the Billings today, as well as with the family and friends of the people who have been arrested. There are no winners anywhere in this tragic case.

Or....per presser today....the only items recovered were jewelry, papers, prescription drugs.....well I WONDER what could have already been removed BEFORE LE recovered the safe buried in PL's backyard? I'm sorry....to believe that it was "just a home robbery"....ask yourselves "what was the payoff" for 8 or more people to plan for 30 days, just to get a few pieces of jewelry? Doesn't add up. IMO

 

[Midwest MOM]

I believe I may be able answer some of the questions about the real estate docs and how they may be relevant to the case, and also help to omit some of the names being tossed around. I am a real estate investor that is how I make my living and I will keep the content general and simple.

Warranted Deed: shows sale and money has been exchanged in a real estate transaction.

Grantor- is the seller --(midwest mom) sells to
Grantee - is the buyer (sluethers)

Deed of trust - Mortgage or loan (trust to Pay)
(now grantors and grantee name changes-yet still relates to same transaction)

Grantor - Is now the debtor (sludthers) who has the loan
Grantee - is now the bank or lender ( the sluthers bank of the web)

THIS IS WHERE IT CAN GET INTERESTING PERTAINING TO THIS CASE:
TRUST AGREEMENT- there are many different types of trust and why they are used. Land, probate, revocable.

I know Land trust: so my example is from a land trust document

The general use of a trust agreement is to HIDE, shadow or cover the original Document or transaction from being public.

Land trust Trustee- Is a name or entity (a witness to the doc)
The Beneficiary -Is who the property is owned by (this is hidden with in the original doc from public view)

Example- Midwest mom owns a property midwest mom does not wanting the world to know her address, business or what ever the case may be (generally being sued) so as grantor. midwest mom puts her home in a trust with the trustee as JOE SHMOE in Timbuckto nowhere to be located. and names herself or husband, and is the Beneficiary

Note: the beneficiary does not have to be the same as the grantor who has the authorization to make the trust.

THE ORIGINAL DOC DOES NOT HAVE TO BE RECORDED-where does it go?

It depends on the what the grantor wants to do with it- can give it to neighbor, LAWYER or in my case THROW IT IN THE SAFE

Only JOE SHMOE in TIMBUCKTO knows what is in the original doc and generally JOE is just a witness and has no monetary gain.


Hope this wasn't to confusing-please feel free to correct or add - my main point is that you can search all of these docs with all the different names and still not know who ownes the properties because it is contained inside the trust. question is WHERE IS THE ORIGINAL DOCS?

 

[daisy7]

Yes, I know. The subsequent arrests show battery on a Fireman./officer, and this happens frequently during a Baker Act arrest. There won't be any record of Baker Acting on line.

This also happens quite often with non-Baker Acted people, especially considering how few people are actually Baker Acted and how many perps. have charges of battery on LE, resisting arrest, etc.

IMHO, this is a HUGE stretch that Jr. was Baker Acted SOLELY because he had a charge of battery on LE and then was ordered for a psych eval.

:blowkiss:

 

[LifeTimeAdventure]

This Is What Chuck Baldwin Thought:

To my way of thinking, this case smacks of much more than a robbery gone badly. There were at least eight, and maybe nine, people involved. Maybe more. The invasion and killings were perpetrated in less than four minutes, by multiple assailants, and with "military precision." The home invasion took place at approximately 7:30 p.m. local time. And at the time of the shooting, nine of the Billings children were in the home.

I believe murder, not robbery, was the motive. Extraordinary planning and the number of personnel involved indicate to me that the Billings were executed, and that robbery was an afterthought--or was even intended to be a ruse to mislead law enforcement. The real reason behind the killings may never be known, of course.

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090717.html

 

[Pegatha]

MIDWESTMOM

Only JOE SHMOE in TIMBUCKTO knows what is in the original doc and generally JOE is just a witness and has no monetary gain.

But are you saying that a notary could be the JOE SHMOE that was the witness and would know what was in the document and would know who does have monetary gain?