Court Appearances and Canadian Legal Terms

[SnooperDuper]

MS can ask for protective custody whenever he wants. Every inmate can. He was only moved to one jail that I am aware of. When and to what jails has he been shuttled in and out of? Link please. According to MS, his moving in and out of segregation is not caused by any problems he is enduring from other inmates, so I don't know where you got that impression.

I found 3 addresses for MS:

Toronto East Detention Centre
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_they_want_to_tell_their_story_but_cant.html

Toronto West Detention Centre
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5262706-co-accused-in-bosma-murder-case-faces-new-charge/

Niagara Detention Centre
http://www.mississauga.com/news-sto...-say-they-want-to-tell-their-story-but-can-t/

 

[SnooperDuper]

Inmates pay room and board? That's a new one on me. Do you have a link for that please? I know when they cut the prisoners pay to about $3 a day last year, the excuse given was that the cuts were to pay for room and board and the phone system. They do have to pay for their own toiletries, like soap and shampoo, out of their commissary account. And many want a job for that and for letters home and to help pay their families expenses to come visit, but I don't believe they pay room and board out of their commissary funds.

JMO

But realistically money shuffles around outside to pay for what goes on inside: there are loads of drugs available inside jails and prisons and you sure as heck aren't going to get high much paying people off by putting a max $90 in their commissary account. In other words, having money still counts. There are lots of things you can buy by getting money to the right people on the outside.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I found 3 addresses for MS:

Toronto East Detention Centre
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_they_want_to_tell_their_story_but_cant.html

Toronto West Detention Centre
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5262706-co-accused-in-bosma-murder-case-faces-new-charge/

Niagara Detention Centre
http://www.mississauga.com/news-sto...-say-they-want-to-tell-their-story-but-can-t/

Thanks. I missed the move to Toronto West. Is that where he still is? I wonder where they'll move him after he's had too many time outs there.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

But realistically money shuffles around outside to pay for what goes on inside: there are loads of drugs available inside jails and prisons and you sure as heck aren't going to get high much paying people off by putting a max $90 in their commissary account. In other words, having money still counts. There are lots of things you can buy by getting money to the right people on the outside.

Yes, I know there are plenty of drugs inside. You can even get them from the guards.

http://www.lfpress.com/2015/02/20/guard-at-elgin-middlesex-detention-centre-charged-with-drug-trafficking

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/04/26/corrections_officer_accused_of_smuggling_alcohol_drugs_into_etobicoke_jail.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/guards-smuggling-drugs-into-regina-jail-police-1.943300

But that still doesn't mean they pay room and board.

JMO

 

[Kamille]

Inmates pay room and board? That's a new one on me. Do you have a link for that please? I know when they cut the prisoners pay to about $3 a day last year, the excuse given was that the cuts were to pay for room and board and the phone system. They do have to pay for their own toiletries, like soap and shampoo, out of their commissary account. And many want a job for that and for letters home and to help pay their families expenses to come visit, but I don't believe they pay room and board out of their commissary funds.

JMO

Food and Accommodation

Inmates will not be charged food and accommodation during the intake assessment process. For centralized intake processes, food and accommodation deductions will commence on the date of transfer to the placement institution following the penitentiary placement decision. For decentralized intake processes, food and accommodation deductions will commence the date the initial Correctional Plan is finalized.

Inmates at pay level D to pay level A, as defined in CD 730 – Inmate Program Assignment and Payments, will normally contribute 22% of their CSC payment toward the cost of food and accommodation.

Inmates with sources of income other than, or in addition to, a CSC payment will normally contribute 30% of their income from other sources toward the cost of food and accommodation.



http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/politiques-et-lois/860-cd-eng.shtml

 

[swedie]

Actually, stripping DM of his inheritance might equalize him with the vast majority of the other prisoners. Right now he is being treated differently because of his wealth IMO. He wouldn't be treated worse than the others, just the same. Instead of being afforded "protection" and special status as he is right now. And he'd still be able to have money in his commissary account, in fact it's a requirement so that they can pay their room and board but he just might have to work for it, or his family and friends might have to send it to him like most of the others. Perhaps the victim's family would like to know he's being treated the same as any other convicted murderer if he is found guilty. And he should be. That would be "fair".

But you're right, we should agree to disagree on this issue.

MOO

BBM - Hmm maybe no one is topping up his account. Perhaps he doesn't have any friends any more... if he really ever did have true friends. If so, I imagine they've taken the garbage to the curb and moved on. Isn't that what most sensible people do? Old baggage can really wear a person down. JMO.

 

[swedie]

What do you think DP meant by this, on the subject of why he had not been retained:







https://ca.news.yahoo.com/tim-bosma-trial-judge-hold-010433193.html


So did the DI push DM's case forward far enough to conflict with DP's other murder case?

Or because of the DI, is DP's advice to plead, wheras DM still wants to go to trial?


DP is defending MP right now...she was arrested and charged with second-degree murder on April 14, 2012, a month and a year before DM. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/woman-charged-with-sister-in-law-s-murder-distraught-1.1231112



Jury selection was May 20 2015 and the trial began June 3 2015 (-ish, on or about, exact dates not important here)

The crime occured Feb 5 2009

http://www.mississauga.com/news-sto...on-begins-wednesday-in-death-of-pregnant-mom/

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5...er-cried-bitterly-for-her-mother-jurors-hear/

So in MP's case, it was 38 months between the murder and the charge, and another 38 months between the charge and the trial.

In DM/TB's case, it was 0 months between the murder and the charge, and another 32 months between the charge and the trial (minus PI, plus defense delays)

I believe it has to do with this statement he claimed. “I never take a case without thinking I can win it,” the 50-year-old lawyer says.
MOO.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...deepak_paradkar_i_treat_trials_like_wars.html

 

[swedie]

I'm still stuck on why we should treat people differently because they have more money than other people. If it's about stripping criminals of all they have, then shouldn't it be applied equally to all, not just those who have more money? I am of the opinion that just because something is possible, doesn't mean it should be done, especially if it's not about being just.

If DM's wealth were a tool essential for him to commit those crimes, how can poor people afford to commit murder? If we as a society feel we need to take away everything that a person used to commit a crime, then we should take their feet, their hands, and their brains, as those are all much bigger tools to committing crimes than money. Many people without a penny can kill, but you don't see a lot of footless, handless lobotomized murderers out there, in my opinion.

In the same way that it would be unconstitutional to deny a poor defendant a lawyer just because he cannot afford one, I find it also immoral to treat a defendant differently just because they can afford one. I think no one should get preferential treatment nor inferior treatment, if I am going to stand by my principals. All my opinion only.

I'm dumbfounded by the argument that DM should be able to keep his alleged wealth if found guilty of the three murders, is sentenced to the rest of his life behind bars. What do some suppose is the importance of money for him in that situation? It's not like he will be able to hire an interior decorator and spruce up his cosy, little, nook or order caviare and lobster from the daily menu, nor will he be able to wear the latest designer fashions in his cosy quarters. MOO.

If he's convicted and ends up being a lifer, he may as well give it to his victims families along with an apology. Maybe these thoughts are already running through his head about compensating his victims. The fact of the matter is is the courts will reward the money (if there is any) to whom they believe is deserving of the money and sorry to say to some, it won't be staying with DM. And what little will be afforded to him, will be nothing compared to what he could have had, had he not murdered three innocent people. One being the person who afforded him the cushy, lavish, lifestyle he seemed so much to be enjoying prior to sitting in the box he now finds himself confined to for 23 hours a day. He certainly is his own worst enemy. Sucks to be DM in MOO.

 

[swedie]

I don't recall MS complaining about his treatment in jail, other than being placed in segregation, which I believe is considered a step up from protective custody or solitary confinement, as opposed to being in the general population, which is better than segregation. He said the other inmates don't bother him, or something to that effect:

"While he assumes many of the other inmates recognize his name and his high-profile case, he says he has not been targeted in any way. He says he gets outside, but not often — especially now that he's in segregation again."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4075078-exclusive-jail-visits-with-bosma-s-accused-killers/

So if spending some time in segregation is worse than being in general population, and being confined alone, solitarily, is considered so much worse that it is used as punishment classically, how is DM getting preferential treatment? If solitary confinement was so great, all the inmates would misbehave just to get that preferential treatment, logically.

Also, the way that the guards treat each individual inmate in jail generally relates to the way that inmate treats the guards. If the guards treat an inmate with respect, it is pretty much guaranteed that the inmate is respectful to the guards, in my opinion.

FYI that article was approximately 20 months ago.... A lot can change over that period of time. HTH and MOO.

 

[Kamille]

FYI that article was approximately 20 months ago.... A lot can change over that period of time. HTH and MOO.

Not to mention he was sitting beside another inmate who could hear what he was saying according to the article. If he was having problems with other inmates he's not going to be heard telling someone that by another inmate. No private booth for visitors like DM receives.

 

[Alethea Dice]

You think MS thinks so highly of himself that the guy talking to his girlfriend and friend are more interested in what he says than in talking to each other? Or do you think that, even though he was in segregation at the time, he was still scared of that guy sitting beside him? He doesn't seem to like segregation, so do you think he would ask for it if he was being bullied? Or are you maybe just saying he's a liar?

 

[Kamille]

You think MS thinks so highly of himself that the guy talking to his girlfriend and friend are more interested in what he says than in talking to each other? Or do you think that, even though he was in segregation at the time, he was still scared of that guy sitting beside him? He doesn't seem to like segregation, so do you think he would ask for it if he was being bullied? Or are you maybe just saying he's a liar?

None of the above.

I think he's doing what he has to do to get by in detention awaiting trial.

MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

None of the above.

I think he's doing what he has to do to get by in detention awaiting trial.

MOO

I was kind of being sarcastic because of how protective some are of MS, yet how much against any comment that is less than negative and accusing about DM. I guess it's a good thing that MS has some experience so he better knows how to control things wherever he is.

 

[jash]

"The flashy and effusive criminal lawyer who planned to defend accused serial killer Dellen Millard at trial has been replaced. Deepak Paradkar ... will not be Millard's trial lawyer. Instead Ravin Pillay, who has been part of Millard's defence team, although not its frontman, will represent him when the case goes to trial next January."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5688757-tim-bosma-accused-killer-dellen-millard-gets-a-new-lawyer/

 

[SnooperDuper]

"The flashy and effusive criminal lawyer who planned to defend accused serial killer Dellen Millard at trial has been replaced. Deepak Paradkar ... will not be Millard's trial lawyer. Instead Ravin Pillay, who has been part of Millard's defence team, although not its frontman, will represent him when the case goes to trial next January."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5688757-tim-bosma-accused-killer-dellen-millard-gets-a-new-lawyer/

The article details some of the recent work RP has done:

He has made news with a number of his cases over the years. In Peterborough, he defended a former Bandidos biker gang member at a forfeiture hearing when the Crown wanted to seize his client's home on the grounds it was part of his cocaine empire.

Unfortunately RP lost this case and his client was found guilty and lost his house
http://www.mykawartha.com/community...rules-robert-pammett-s-home-will-go-to-crown/

He represented a man wanted for murder and decapitation in Philadelphia who was facing extradition from Canada.

Unfortunately RP lost this case and his client was found guilty and extradited
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...itation_should_be_extradited_judge_rules.html

He was lawyer for one of two men convicted of carrying out a pair of execution-style killings to avenge the theft of a cocaine shipment in Pickering. That case hinged on a third man, whom Pillay suggested framed the accused men to save himself.

Unfortunately RP lost this case and his client was found guilty
http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...g-in-pickering-double-murder-set-for-january/

He has also defended two men charged with killing police officers.

York Regional Police Det. Const. Robert Plunkett was pinned between a car and tree while attempting to arrest the car's driver.

Unfortunately RP lost this case and his client was found guilty
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/06/29/nadeem-jiwa-police-officer-sentence_n_887279.html

South Simcoe Police Const. Alan Kuzmich was killed by a speeding car that was chasing after a motorcycle.

RP "won" this one, but his client was still found guilty and went to jail
http://www.ccvf.net/?p=967

I wish DM all the best with his new defense. He's gunna need it!

 

[hopingforjustice]

The article details some of the recent work RP has done:



Unfortunately RP lost this case and his client was found guilty and lost his house
http://www.mykawartha.com/community...rules-robert-pammett-s-home-will-go-to-crown/



Unfortunately RP lost this case and his client was found guilty and extradited
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...itation_should_be_extradited_judge_rules.html



Unfortunately RP lost this case and his client was found guilty
http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...g-in-pickering-double-murder-set-for-january/



Unfortunately RP lost this case and his client was found guilty
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/06/29/nadeem-jiwa-police-officer-sentence_n_887279.html



RP "won" this one, but his client was still found guilty and went to jail
http://www.ccvf.net/?p=967

I wish DM all the best with his new defense. He's gunna need it!

Thanks for that update and Agreed! Even a bad lawyer needs a full deck of cards to play with. I think this one is going to have to use a magicians bag of tricks to pull out all the aces on this one.

 

[Alethea Dice]

The article details some of the recent work RP has done:


Unfortunately RP lost this case and his client was found guilty and extradited
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...itation_should_be_extradited_judge_rules.html

rsbm

This client was not found guilty, has not been extradited, and probably won't be for awhile. All he lost was the fight to not be extradited. He will be appealing again for assurances that he will not face the death penalty. His trial, where he will be found guilty or not guilty, will or will not eventually be held in the U.S.. It also might be pointed out that he maintains his innocence and the two who implicated him have signed sworn affidavits denying they made statements to the police and have returned to China with no intention of testifying against him.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/04/23/man_wanted_for_murder_and_decapitation_should_be_extradited_judge_rules.html

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/04/20/man-wanted-in-grisly-us-dismemberment-case-loses-extradition-appeal.html

Perhaps the Spec didn't have much interest in looking into any cases he may have won, such as this one.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/truckers-found-not-guilty-of-importing-45-kilos-of-cocaine

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

rsbm

This client was not found guilty, has not been extradited, and probably won't be for awhile. All he lost was the fight to not be extradited. He will be appealing again for assurances that he will not face the death penalty. His trial, where he will be found guilty or not guilty, will or will not eventually be held in the U.S.. It also might be pointed out that he maintains his innocence and the two who implicated him have signed sworn affidavits denying they made statements to the police and have returned to China with no intention of testifying against him.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/04/23/man_wanted_for_murder_and_decapitation_should_be_extradited_judge_rules.html

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/04/20/man-wanted-in-grisly-us-dismemberment-case-loses-extradition-appeal.html

Perhaps the Spec didn't have much interest in looking into any cases he may have won, such as this one.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/truckers-found-not-guilty-of-importing-45-kilos-of-cocaine

JMO

Well it's good to see RP occasionally wins one, because we do want competent representation for DM in order to avert a mistrial.

About 2.5 months until next court date in the TB case,

6 months to jury selection and 7 months until trial.

 

[swedie]

rsbm

This client was not found guilty, has not been extradited, and probably won't be for awhile. All he lost was the fight to not be extradited. He will be appealing again for assurances that he will not face the death penalty. His trial, where he will be found guilty or not guilty, will or will not eventually be held in the U.S.. It also might be pointed out that he maintains his innocence and the two who implicated him have signed sworn affidavits denying they made statements to the police and have returned to China with no intention of testifying against him.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/04/23/man_wanted_for_murder_and_decapitation_should_be_extradited_judge_rules.html

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/04/20/man-wanted-in-grisly-us-dismemberment-case-loses-extradition-appeal.html

Perhaps the Spec didn't have much interest in looking into any cases he may have won, such as this one.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/truckers-found-not-guilty-of-importing-45-kilos-of-cocaine

JMO

From your last link: The case was based on circumstantial evidence. A slam dunk case none the less. Evidence: pallets with large amounts of cocaine and peppers in the load these men were going to transport across the border. There are more twists and turns, ups and downs, ins and outs and way more people involved in DM's cases, which lead me to believe there is more than just circumstantial evidence. I have no fear LE don't have sufficient circumstantial, and I believe LE have a huge amount of direct evidence which will render conviction(s) of live sentence(s). That's JMO though.

 

[Tamarind]

From your last link: The case was based on circumstantial evidence. A slam dunk case none the less. Evidence: pallets with large amounts of cocaine and peppers in the load these men were going to transport across the border. There are more twists and turns, ups and downs, ins and outs and way more people involved in DM's cases, which lead me to believe there is more than just circumstantial evidence. I have no fear LE don't have sufficient circumstantial, and I believe LE have a huge amount of direct evidence which will render conviction(s) of live sentence(s). That's JMO though.

I haven't seen any evidence of this. Which twists and turns/ups and downs are you referring to ? From what I have read in the press and from insinuation, it appears that only the accused are involved, and one accused more than the other according to some opinions. That's not the way I see it, but certainly from what has been disclosed to date, I have yet to see way more people drawn into this case. That's not to say that there is not more to this case than we have been led to believe. MOO