Court: Teaching Credential Required To Home School

[LinasK]

But their youngest son - who is 8 - isn't reading yet. He's not even a little bit interested. That doesn't bother them or me, but I'll bet it would bother a lot of folks

Yeah, well the Waldorf School doesn't teach reading until age 8 either.:doh: :doh: :doh: How they think these children are going to catch up is beyond me...

 

[JBean]

Gosh everyone I know that has homeschooled their kids, especially in high school, have done a wonderfully impressive job. I do not know a single person that has not had an incredible experience homeschooling at the older ages. In my experience, I don't know anyone that took on high school homeschooling that didn't feel they were qualified. I am not saying there are not those that have no business doing it, but I have never met any of them.
I know one couple that took their kids out of school and took them literally around the world. They studied there buns off while they traveled and they learned much about the world and different cultures first hand. It was brave and so cool.
If I could do it again, I would have homeschooled a couple of my kids for high school only.

 

[Texana]

Well, reading readiness comes in a range, like all things developmental. The Waldorf School was a turn-off for me with their hard line--no formal reading instruction until 8--because I had a four year old who read spontaneously, on her own, at a second grade plus level, with no formal instruction other than the usual read alouds and an alphabet puzzle. (and some computer games I threw at her when her baby sister was occupying my time.)

On the other hand, the rates of learning disabilities in Europe are supposedly lower, because formal reading instruction does occur later than the U.S, and obviously, more children are developmentally ready, as well as children who have not been exposed to text/print/sound-letter correlation at home, have a chance to play catch up in school.

The Waldorf School probably has the reputation it does (IMO) because it allows those "late bloomers" for various reasons, a chance to not start until they are more ready.

The problem with any hard-and-fast rule is that it just doesn't fit the truth about children. When it comes to learning, there is no hard and fast rule. (especially with reading and math.) There's a reason we used to have, and good schools still do, reading groups of the Blue Birds and Red Birds and Yellow Birds, or Book A, Book B, Book C.

The idea that children will naturally sooner or later gravitate towards things they are not interested in, is simply not realistic. We don't all learn our multiplication tables because we are thrilled about them, or as Mr. Texana did, because he was a first grader and it was really cool, some of us learn them because someone else impresses upon us it will benefit us more to know them than to not know them.

We do our children a disservice when we do not make them learn things that will benefit them later just because they don't want to learn those things now. That is a cruel way of punishing them for being children, I think.

 

[Karole28]

Believe it or not, I have the right to express my OPINION about proposed or impending legislation. Expressing an opinion does not mean that I wish to control anyone else's poor little children who are under their misguided tutelage.

Wow. "poor little children who are under misguided tutelage"? These are pretty emotional words to use on people you don't even know. I think you have an incredible amount of bias against home schooling and home schooled children. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.

Believe it or not, I don't wish to control how other parents teach their children. I report abuse and neglect when I see it, other than that, people can raise kids in the woods in a tent- it's their right, I guess. They can hug the trees while they're there.

No matter how many times you use the phrase, I don't believe that you have no interest in controlling other people's behaviors and choices. Homeschooling has nothing to do with abuse and neglect. Again, you've got a fair bit of emotion coming through on a subject that doesn't affect you (obviously you have confidence in your public schools and they appear to be working for your needs)

I expressed a desire that the law pass in CA and nationwide for the good of this country's children. The proposed law is not about you or your preferences either unless you are a CA lawmaker.

You've expressed interest in telling other people what is best for their children and their lifestyles. (And regarding this not being about "me", it does set precedent, and you have no clue whether or not I have family there that might be affected by this ruling)

Since I am not even a CA resident and have no children of school age, it's not up to me whether children are actually taught enough to pass their college entrance exams and become productive citizens or not. If the next generation is a generation of slackers, so be it.
Their liberal parents will have to live with the fact that their grown children are failures in society.

Liberal parents? What?

I have high standards. I do not think that most of the people I know are qualified to teach their children a broadly based, well-rounded education throughout the secondary school levels.

It doesn't matter what you think. These parents deserve the right to PARENT as they see fit.

I stand by my position that homeschool is mostly a handy venue for parents who don't want to spend the time or money to give their children the necessities such as a full, trendy wardrobes of clothing, private transportation, and money for school projects.

That you view a full, trendy wardrobe as a necessity, is irrelevant, but is very telling.

Add in the many after school extras which come with going to a private, parochial or public school, and I feel extremely sorry for homeschooled children. They are being deprived of a great deal, intellectually, socially and economically.... unless, that is, they were the children who originally lived in my home. Those kids played in their fort, treehouse, pool and huge custom built gym, according to our next door neighbors. Thus, their deprivation was only intellectual.

I don't see how homeschooling a child affects them economically(?) but, reverting back to your argument that homeschooled children are kept in a basement with the Jack and Jill series to read to themselves, there are plenty of people here who have shared their experiences of exposing their children to playgroups, field trips, etc, so I think that's been refuted soundly.

If parents want to keep their children out of a school environment, then they should hire tutors for the duration of the child's K-13 education. Privelege comes with a high price and lofty goals!!!

?? yeah ok.

My point is, homeschooling isn't for every family, neither is private school, neither is public school. I've heard of and have experienced my own trials with public school (though mine go to a very good one, comparatively speaking) and have experienced the same with private. I would love to homeschool, but believe mine (for now) are better served by our school system. However, my feelings aside, parents should have the right in America to make these decisions for their children, not the federal or state governments.

It really doesn't take a village to raise a child.

 

[golfmom]

..... or they take them shopping during normal hours when public schools are in session!

Kids who home school generally aren't well socialized- we have a niece like that who thinks it's acceptable to throw toys at other children, and she's going on 7. When I told her that wouldn't be allowed in public school, she just laughed and said, "Well, I'm not in school!"

Linask, I don't know why you would find it so shocking that a parent would take a child shopping during the hours public schools are in session. Easily a home schooler could turn that into a field trip on economics, biology, nutrition, health, consumers ed, etc. etc. etc. I find it shocking how much time is wasted during normal public school hours. Teacher schedule movies and cartoons in lieu of actual teaching.

It's unfortunate about your niece, however, most parents who home school are well aware of concerns regarding socialization and go overboard in ensuring that their children's needs are met in that regard. I've known lots of home school groups that meet regularly for all sorts of activities ... roller skating, bowling, golf, libraries, etc. Quite frankly, I could do with a lot less school socialization in my life ... I'm tired of the bullies.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

For those who do not know, Lisa Welchel, who was a child actress on the "Facts of Life", happens to be an adorable Christian woman and mother who has written several books. I have personally heard her testimony on two occassions, one of her books, "Creative Discipline", is awesome. Lisa is a well upstanding asset to our world and is no way illiterate. I'm so shocked by the comment about her, the truth is told.

Karole, you rock!!!! :woohoo:

Laziness? economics? socialism? Yeah, all of this is taken into considerations. I'm not lazy, but because I manage my time well, making my life enjoyable and easy, don't hate me. Be more like me! You don't have to work hard, you need to work smart. One of my mottos.

Southcitymom, you stole my saying when I'm teaching, "A child does have a natural inept desire to learn til someone robs them of this innocence and desire".

I work smart to ensure my children do not learn the ways of public school and their philosophies and the evil morals pushed and tolerated by those in the public realm, not just the school systems. I volunteer and help in the public schools, for those kids are just as valuable as mine to me.

I love to walk in them around here, and have everyones head bowed and praying, all the way up to district officials while I'm in the public schools, it's awesome. Wonder why I've never been stopped? Dunno! Or do I?

I admire parents that have the desire to homeschool, so what if their not perfect, there hearts are in the right place, giving their children the very best they feel is available to them as parents, that's good enough for me to support them. Home Schooling Parents and their kids Rock!

I say allow the parents to decide what best fits their families beliefs, budgets and schedules according to their childrens individual personalities and learning abilities, I can't judge a child better than their own parents.

 

[Karole28]

Karole, you rock!!!! :woohoo:

:blowkiss:

 

[calidreamin]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: You rock too Kool, thank you for sticking up for us homeschooling moms.

For those who do not know, Lisa Welchel, who was a child actress on the "Facts of Life", happens to be an adorable Christian woman and mother who has written several books. I have personally heard her testimony on two occassions, one of her books, "Creative Discipline", is awesome. Lisa is a well upstanding asset to our world and is no way illiterate. I'm so shocked by the comment about her, the truth is told.

Karole, you rock!!!! :woohoo:

Laziness? economics? socialism? Yeah, all of this is taken into considerations. I'm not lazy, but because I manage my time well, making my life enjoyable and easy, don't hate me. Be more like me! You don't have to work hard, you need to work smart. One of my mottos.

Southcitymom, you stole my saying when I'm teaching, "A child does have a natural inept desire to learn til someone robs them of this innocence and desire".

I work smart to ensure my children do not learn the ways of public school and their philosophies and the evil morals pushed and tolerated by those in the public realm, not just the school systems. I volunteer and help in the public schools, for those kids are just as valuable as mine to me.

I love to walk in them around here, and have everyones head bowed and praying, all the way up to district officials while I'm in the public schools, it's awesome. Wonder why I've never been stopped? Dunno! Or do I?

I admire parents that have the desire to homeschool, so what if their not perfect, there hearts are in the right place, giving their children the very best they feel is available to them as parents, that's good enough for me to support them. Home Schooling Parents and their kids Rock!

I say allow the parents to decide what best fits their families beliefs, budgets and schedules according to their childrens individual personalities and learning abilities, I can't judge a child better than their own parents.

 

[golfmom]

Arnold is sticking up for home schoolers as well.

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000006736.cfm

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has called for the reversal of a recent appellate court decision banning parents from educating their children at home if they lack teaching credentials, the Los Angeles Times reported. If the state Supreme Court fails to act, the governor vowed to push through legislation guaranteeing families' right to home-school.

"This outrageous ruling must be overturned by the courts, and if the courts don't protect parents' rights, then, as elected officials, we will," he said in a written statement.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: You rock too Kool, thank you for sticking up for us homeschooling moms.

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the World! Or have some forgotten? Cali, I don't home school, did for a few months when my son's teacher was involved in an automobile accident, and yes my scheduling and work ethics were relaxed at home because he was sooooooooo darn smart anyways. HA HA!

My little snook hums wrecked my car at 2 and 1/2 years old, knocked down the whole front part of the barn with the car, and got duck tape out and taped my light and fender back onto my car and was beginning to repair the barn when his dad showed up off work and pulled in the driveway and finished. The duct tape held for a month til I got the car to the body shop and had it repaired. He could do mechanical design at the age of 18 months old.

 

[GlitchWizard]

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the World! Or have some forgotten? Cali, I don't home school, did for a few months when my son's teacher was involved in an automobile accident, and yes my scheduling and work ethics were relaxed at home because he was sooooooooo darn smart anyways. HA HA!

My little snook hums wrecked my car at 2 and 1/2 years old, knocked down the whole front part of the barn with the car, and got duck tape out and taped my light and fender back onto my car and was beginning to repair the barn when his dad showed up off work and pulled in the driveway and finished. The duct tape held for a month til I got the car to the body shop and had it repaired. He could do mechanical design at the age of 18 months old.

Mine was more into forensics. She found a mommy cat and three kittens dead in the driveway and got out a measuring tape and measured the bitemarks, then the mouths of our dogs to determine who killed the kittens. The verdict was: None. Must've been a pack of wolves.

She was four, and hadn't seen an episode of CSI yet. ha ha

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Mine was more into forensics. She found a mommy cat and three kittens dead in the driveway and got out a measuring tape and measured the bitemarks, then the mouths of our dogs to determine who killed the kittens. The verdict was: None. Must've been a pack of wolves.

She was four, and hadn't seen an episode of CSI yet. ha ha

Baaaahaaaaaaaaaa, Posters might not believe us, but I believe your story. I could come up with some past memories and wow everyone, because I was amazed myself as I would watch what he would do. He was my little explorer. My kitchen cabinets look like a display of fine dishes and silver, and I even let him play in them. I knew he would out grow it then I could go back to my pretty cupboards.

I knew I was had when he would mess them up and I thought, "Oh ain't he so cute". My then daughter of 13 would be like, "Mama you're going to let him mess up your cabinets? Yeppers, I would have let her too but she wasn't the exploring type.

I bet your daughter made you proud she belonged to ya. Bet you always claimed she got your brains, te he! Beau got his looks from me, :crazy:
As parents, we have to explore and give latitudes depending on the childs interests and abilities. Beau for the longest time, til around the age of eight, was not interested in holding a pencil to learn to write. He would only do the bare neccessities required. I had to educate two teachers along the way concerning this and his abilities. Now his handwriting at age nine is awesome. I allowed Beau to dwell on his strengths, and knew he would learn the other areas not so interesting to him, but most public schools will not tolerate such.

 

[sherri79]

i home schooled my daughter in first grade. i wanted what was best for her and the school in our neighborhood was horrible. after a year we had saved enough to move to a area with a wonderful school. she started second grade in this school and has done wonderful. i have very little formal education so it was something my husband and i had to really think about. we had to weigh my lack of education against the school she attended. once we moved we had to weigh my lack of education against the school that was offered. we as parents made the choices we felt would serve our child best. it seems we made the correct choice. she entered second grade and scored 2 points below gifted. she is currently in the NJHS. she is a smart child but i share some credit for how well she did when she was tested. her teachers now share some credit for her current grades and accomplishments.

for those that think home school is for lazy parents you are wrong. when the kids are in school i can nap and when they are home i can not. napping is less work. for those that think it is cheap to home school it is not. i spent 800$ on her books but she had difficulty learning reading with the program so i spent another 300 on a supplement set of reading lessons. i still had to buy her clothing and food even though she was at home. for those that think we should support public schools even if they fail to teach you are wrong. support them with my taxes fine but support them by allowing them to fail to teach my child is not. i will not sacrifice her education on the alter of public schools. for those that think home school is for zealots you are wrong. zealots are not the only people who think their child's education is important. for those that think a child can only learn in a brick building sitting for 6 hours straight you are wrong. kids are born with the desire to learn. in some children a structured environment helps but in others it drains the desire to learn from them. my child learned the concept of multiplication sitting on the beach with 3 buckets and a bunch of sea shells. it worked just as well if not better than a Xeroxed page with apples in a basket.

home school is not always the best choice. it is not always the worst. as a parent we are expected to give our children morals and make medical choices for them every day. home school is one possible choice a parent should have when making a decision on their child's education.

should things change and my daughters school become a war zone of gangs and drugs like so many are we would look at home schooling again. it would be more difficult due to the fact her education has surpassed mine in many areas. my husband would be required to help her after working all day if the books we pick do not fully explain what she needs. it would be difficult but my children are worth it.

 

[RhdHighness]

For those who do not know, Lisa Welchel, who was a child actress on the "Facts of Life", happens to be an adorable Christian woman and mother who has written several books. I have personally heard her testimony on two occassions, one of her books, "Creative Discipline", is awesome. Lisa is a well upstanding asset to our world and is no way illiterate. I'm so shocked by the comment about her, the truth is told.

Karole, you rock!!!! :woohoo:

Laziness? economics? socialism? Yeah, all of this is taken into considerations. I'm not lazy, but because I manage my time well, making my life enjoyable and easy, don't hate me. Be more like me! You don't have to work hard, you need to work smart. One of my mottos.

Southcitymom, you stole my saying when I'm teaching, "A child does have a natural inept desire to learn til someone robs them of this innocence and desire".

I work smart to ensure my children do not learn the ways of public school and their philosophies and the evil morals pushed and tolerated by those in the public realm, not just the school systems. I volunteer and help in the public schools, for those kids are just as valuable as mine to me.

I love to walk in them around here, and have everyones head bowed and praying, all the way up to district officials while I'm in the public schools, it's awesome. Wonder why I've never been stopped? Dunno! Or do I?

I admire parents that have the desire to homeschool, so what if their not perfect, there hearts are in the right place, giving their children the very best they feel is available to them as parents, that's good enough for me to support them. Home Schooling Parents and their kids Rock!

I say allow the parents to decide what best fits their families beliefs, budgets and schedules according to their childrens individual personalities and learning abilities, I can't judge a child better than their own parents.

Very well said I've been to angry to post, but you said it better then i ever could, thnx

 

[CyberLaw]

If I read one more story of a child that was victimized by their parent(s) and no one knew about it because the child was home schooled and kept away from prying eyes that would ask questions about abuse or neglect, as would be required in the school system with the Police and CPS involved

I would literally if in power ensure that all kids who are home schooled and checked on a regular basis not only for abuse, but for the parents teaching the child according to acceptable standards.

That does not mean putting PBS on in the am, so Mommy can talk on the phone to her friends and calling that education. Or mommy can take a nap or mommy going shopping or to the pool. Some parents home school because they feel it is the best choice for their child, others home school to cover up abuse, neglect, or other reasons.

If you do any job, you should have a back ground to qualify to do that job. Or education to do that job. A parent who graduated, or not, from high school 10-20 years ago has no idea that grade 7-8 math involves polyhedrons.

If you have to look up what polyhedrons are, then you might question the teaching credentials of the the teacher who is a parent.

The following is a sample from a grade 7-8 math test. See if you understand the question and can teach it and provide the correct answer and why. You will be teaching your child this math.

BACHET 17th Century France

​

What is the least number of weights that can be used on a scale
pan to weight against any integral number of pounds from 1 to 40
inclusive, if the weights can be placed in either of the scale pans?

What about history and science............

Parents may think they are qualified, but in essence they are not. Unless of course they graduated University with a degree and have their teaching credentials. You can teach a young child to read, but try grade 12 math or science. That would be the math and science of 2008, not when the parent graduated high school 10-20 years ago.

Children have to compete in a knowledge based global environment against other children who have had a formal education and can compete and excel. Depending on the parent, that may occur or not.

 

[southcitymom]

.....
What is the least number of weights that can be used on a scale
pan to weight against any integral number of pounds from 1 to 40
inclusive, if the weights can be placed in either of the scale pans?.......

Actually, Cyber - noone would be able to help me learn how to answer this question or even to care what the answer is!:crazy:

The fact is that most homeschooling parents are able to find suitable teachers for their children when they reach a level of learning the parents aren't comfortable with. Homeschooling is NOT all about one or two parents teaching their children everything. Often - especially with older students - it is about finding the proper resources. There are lots of ways to do that.

Today's children will compete in a global world where a lot of knowledge and facts are at everyone's fingertips. What children need to be taught is how to communicate well and how to figure problems out and where to go to find what you need to know - you don't need a degree to teach these things, IMHO.

I couldn't tell you what a polyhedron is if you held a gun to my head. I couldn't tell you lots of things that I once knew - even though I regurgitated these facts on a test and was a great student.

In home school - as in formal school - a child's natural talents, interests and abilities emerge with very little coaxing. Homeschoolers follow those cues just like other educators do.

 

[BhamMama]

If I read one more story of a child that was victimized by their parent(s) and no one knew about it because the child was home schooled and kept away from prying eyes that would ask questions about abuse or neglect, as would be required in the school system with the Police and CPS involved
The following is a sample from a grade 7-8 math test. See if you understand the question and can teach it and provide the correct answer and why. You will be teaching your child this math.

BACHET 17th Century France



What is the least number of weights that can be used on a scale
pan to weight against any integral number of pounds from 1 to 40
inclusive, if the weights can be placed in either of the scale pans?

What about history and science............

Parents may think they are qualified, but in essence they are not. Unless of course they graduated University with a degree and have their teaching credentials. You can teach a young child to read, but try grade 12 math or science. That would be the math and science of 2008, not when the parent graduated high school 10-20 years ago.

Children have to compete in a knowledge based global environment against other children who have had a formal education and can compete and excel. Depending on the parent, that may occur or not.

If I hear one more time about a child who went to public school that was abused by a teacher, or dated their teacher, or went home after school and was abused, after dealing with a bully all day long etc Parents will abuse no matter where the child schools because they are abusive parents, not because they homeschool.

The answer to your math problem is 4 weights, 1, 3, 9 and 27. Should I show my work too?

If you don't have an idea of all the curricula that is offered then you can't really make a judgement. We are not using books that we got from the dollar store. I've paid thousands of dollars for the teaching material I own and that they use.

This isn't something we do for 3 hours a day then go play hopscotch. This is a lifestyle. We live learning. Our vacations are centered around it, our choice of movies, books, plays and people we visit is based on learning. Everything we do is a learning experience.

We have co-ops, we teach biology and get to cut up frogs just like the rest of the world, except we did a shark fetus too. We have school dances, get togethers, karate classes and music classes. We get to meet and greet people from all walks of life, of any age, all the time. We make homemade paper, visit shut ins, and read to the elderly. We get to visit the zoo when it's not crowded, sit in the park and eat our lunch then go catch bugs and identify them. We write, direct and star in our own plays. Plays that we made the costumes and backdrops for. It's called living in the world and we do it!

No, it's not for everyone, but neither is public school. Wow, a choice! Novel concept. You get to choose, I get to choose, easy as pie!

 

[Glow]

I think one thing we can lose sight of in today's world, is that this wonderful country was founded by men and women who were home schooled or educated in little one room school houses were the older students taught the younger ones.

That would include Presidents, Statesmen, Military Leaders, Supreme Court Justices, Scientists, Inventors, Artists, Composers, Writers, Educators and so on.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

If I hear one more time about a child who went to public school that was abused by a teacher, or dated their teacher, or went home after school and was abused, after dealing with a bully all day long etc Parents will abuse no matter where the child schools because they are abusive parents, not because they homeschool.

The answer to your math problem is 4 weights, 1, 3, 9 and 27. Should I show my work too?

If you don't have an idea of all the curricula that is offered then you can't really make a judgement. We are not using books that we got from the dollar store. I've paid thousands of dollars for the teaching material I own and that they use.

This isn't something we do for 3 hours a day then go play hopscotch. This is a lifestyle. We live learning. Our vacations are centered around it, our choice of movies, books, plays and people we visit is based on learning. Everything we do is a learning experience.

We have co-ops, we teach biology and get to cut up frogs just like the rest of the world, except we did a shark fetus too. We have school dances, get togethers, karate classes and music classes. We get to meet and greet people from all walks of life, of any age, all the time. We make homemade paper, visit shut ins, and read to the elderly. We get to visit the zoo when it's not crowded, sit in the park and eat our lunch then go catch bugs and identify them. We write, direct and star in our own plays. Plays that we made the costumes and backdrops for. It's called living in the world and we do it!

No, it's not for everyone, but neither is public school. Wow, a choice! Novel concept. You get to choose, I get to choose, easy as pie!

Wowsa! Every word that proceedeth out of your crimson lips was awesome. You rock! Oh yeah!

 

[Kim Ii]

Originally Posted by BhamMama View Post
If I hear one more time about a child who went to public school that was abused by a teacher, or dated their teacher, or went home after school and was abused, after dealing with a bully all day long etc Parents will abuse no matter where the child schools because they are abusive parents, not because they homeschool.

The answer to your math problem is 4 weights, 1, 3, 9 and 27. Should I show my work too?

If you don't have an idea of all the curricula that is offered then you can't really make a judgement. We are not using books that we got from the dollar store. I've paid thousands of dollars for the teaching material I own and that they use.

This isn't something we do for 3 hours a day then go play hopscotch. This is a lifestyle. We live learning. Our vacations are centered around it, our choice of movies, books, plays and people we visit is based on learning. Everything we do is a learning experience.

We have co-ops, we teach biology and get to cut up frogs just like the rest of the world, except we did a shark fetus too. We have school dances, get togethers, karate classes and music classes. We get to meet and greet people from all walks of life, of any age, all the time. We make homemade paper, visit shut ins, and read to the elderly. We get to visit the zoo when it's not crowded, sit in the park and eat our lunch then go catch bugs and identify them. We write, direct and star in our own plays. Plays that we made the costumes and backdrops for. It's called living in the world and we do it!

No, it's not for everyone, but neither is public school. Wow, a choice! Novel concept. You get to choose, I get to choose, easy as pie!



:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER MYSELF, BHAMMAMMA! Well done...