"Cover her face"

[MyBelle]

Are LE responsible for protecting and preserving forensic evidence? Wouldn't the sun have changed the condition of her body, which would also delay being able to get time of death?

I'm sure anything the sun may have affected on the body would have been noted by the ME. I do believe he established a window of time of death.

 

[freespeech]

All LE have procedures and processes they must follow in investigations. They are audited on their following of these procedures. Doesn't matter who was their leader if all they did was follow procedure and I have no reason to believe they did not follow procedure.

I do not believe the AG will order an independant investigation if all they may have failed in doing was erecting a screen.

JMO

Not erecting a screen was only the tiny tip of an iceberg. The anomalies in this case are so numerous that there should be a thread devoted just to that.

 

[freespeech]

I'm sure anything the sun may have affected on the body would have been noted by the ME. I do believe he established a window of time of death.

You would think LE would have noted the damage done to the evidence because of the lengthy elemental exposure but no they never mentioned it.

However, you are absolutely correct that should have been mentioned especially in the autopsy report. It also should have been in an addendum to the purported lack of DNA evidence. Why was there no explanation for why Adam's DNA was not on Rebecca or the rope?

 

[MyBelle]

Since the person in control can't control the media like you mentioned he should have predicted the public's response and erected a tent to prevent the media storm.
The ability to administrate the correct course of action in these situations is why these people make big buck salaries. If they are not effective in their position of leadership then they need to be called out on it. Calling them out on their lack of competence is the job of the public. That's what is happening now. Gore is being called out for his lack of proper direction beginning with not reducing/preventing the media storm.

Furthermore, there is a question of conflict of interest here since Gore was know to socialize with Jonah Shacknai. The way this case was handled needs to be examined by peer professionals. Public outrage and criticism needs to be taken into account when deciding the future course of action in these matters.

BBM Where exactly did this "public response" take place? Did the news media make a big deal over the exposed remains at the news conference over a year ago? I'm sorry but I've not seen any public outcry over the way the San Diego investigators handled either of these cases, the only criticism I've seen in the media is from the families about the conclusions.

There isn't a question of conflict of interest if all the Sheriff did is socialize with Jonah Schacknai. The sheriff is a politician and he can socialize with whomever he likes.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

You would think LE would have noted the damage done to the evidence because of the lengthy elemental exposure but no they never mentioned it.

However, you are absolutely correct that should have been mentioned especially in the autopsy report. It also should have been in an addendum to the purported lack of DNA evidence. Why was there no explanation for why Adam's DNA was not on Rebecca or the rope?

Evidently there was no damage for the ME to note on the AR. The AR isn't going to mention something that doesn't exist or is irrelevant. LE can't collect DNA that isn't there to collect.

I wouldn't expect Adam's DNA to the on the rope itself. In order to cut her down, he would need to hold her body with one hand and had a knife in the other to cut the rope. There was also a scarf wrapped around her neck.

JMO

 

[freespeech]

I said the baseless bashing of LE is what bothers me. I'm not seeing anything healthy about the practice. I also do not believe any poster here is still traumatized over aerial, blurry photos taken over a year ago.

JMO

Criticism is not baseless bashing. Criticism is absolutely necessary for sustaining and maintaining high level functioning. Without appropriate criticism our society would devolve to a very rudimentary level of functioning. I don't really believe anyone would want that. It is better to keep up the critical skills even if some are offended by the analysis. JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Criticism is not baseless bashing. Criticism is absolutely necessary for sustaining and maintaining high level functioning. Without appropriate criticism our society would devolve to a very rudimentary level of functioning. I don't really believe anyone would want that. It is better to keep up the critical skills even if some are offended by the analysis. JMO.

I don't share your opinion. You have claimed the failure to erect a tent is "tip of the iceberg" as though the San Diego law enforcement agencies are corrupt.

JMO

 

[freespeech]

Evidently there was no damage for the ME to note on the AR. The AR isn't going to mention something that doesn't exist or is irrelevant. LE can't collect DNA that isn't there to collect.

I wouldn't expect Adam's DNA to the on the rope itself. In order to cut her down, he would need to hold her body with one hand and had a knife in the other to cut the rope. There was also a scarf wrapped around her neck.

JMO

Damage to the evidence is not irrelevant. It is very relevant as is the lack of DNA where it would and should be if Adam did what he said he did. The lack of Adam's DNA where it should have been makes his version of the events less believable. He should have been asked to repeat the LDT as was suggested. Then if he passed his story may have been more believable. With the current inconsistencies and contradictions inherent in his version of events it is impossible to believe whatever he said, imo.

 

[screecher]

I think they're selective in their 'corruptiveness'.

BTW MyBelle, according to SDSO and the ME, it was a t-shirt wrapped around Recca's neck...three times. 3 times and then stuffed in mouth.

Not a "scarf".

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Evidently there was no damage for the ME to note on the AR. The AR isn't going to mention something that doesn't exist or is irrelevant. LE can't collect DNA that isn't there to collect.

I wouldn't expect Adam's DNA to the on the rope itself. In order to cut her down, he would need to hold her body with one hand and had a knife in the other to cut the rope. There was also a scarf wrapped around her neck.

JMO

I believe it was a t-shirt wrapped around RZ's neck not a scarf.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-zahau-autopsy-raises-questions/story?id=14451270

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Evidently there was no damage for the ME to note on the AR. The AR isn't going to mention something that doesn't exist or is irrelevant. LE can't collect DNA that isn't there to collect.

I wouldn't expect Adam's DNA to the on the rope itself. In order to cut her down, he would need to hold her body with one hand and had a knife in the other to cut the rope. There was also a scarf wrapped around her neck.

JMO

When AS allegedly attempted to revive RZ you would think he would have attempted to remove the rope from around her neck... and at least loosen it.... where was his DNA?

The first thing I would do was try to get that rope away from her throat along with the t-shirt... and I still can't figure out how he did that with a broken table leg... I would sure like to see a reconstruction of that scenario...

 

[K_Z]

BBM. I think it wasn't their job to cover the body. To me, that's a pretty good excuse. I never saw anyone in San Diego complaining about it. Cops investigate the circumstances of a death but they don't examine the dead body itself.

JMO

BBM

For those few posters who feel it was perfectly A-ok and justified for leaving Rebecca's nude, bound, dead body exposed to the elements, and on public display for 13 hours, to please stop for a minute and consider your own friends, neighbors, and loved ones.

Would it be A-ok for any of those people to be left in the same conditions?

How about child/ infant victims? A-ok for them to be left in those conditions?

Wealthy and/ or prominent members of the community-- A-ok for them to be left in those conditions?

Poor/ homeless victims-- A-ok for them to be left in those conditions?

Car accident victims? Shark attack victims?

How about a police officer killed in the line of duty-- A-ok for an officer to be left in those conditons?

A dog or a deer struck by a car is afforded more respect and dignity than Rebecca's body was, IMO.

I would be absolutely furious, and on a mission to get answers, and change leaders and policies, if I were a resident of Coronado.

I cannot imagine my own children or family members or friends or neighbors left to rot naked and dead in the sun in these civilian circumstances in a wealthy enclave for 13 hours. It is absolutely inexcusable. Many, many people should have lost their jobs over this, imo.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I think paparazzi are a fact of life in Cali. It's not LE's job to worry what neighborhood boys are looking at from their private residences. I find it strange to blame cops for the sick obsession of others.

JMO

IMO
If the paparazzi "are a fact of life in Cali" shouldn't LE in Cali be better equipped to deal with them since they have more experience?

No one is blaming the cops for the actions of others. What is being questioned is their response to the actions of others or lack of response.

In life there are times when you just have to "wing it". Maybe there's not a procedure in the "cop manual" in San Diego for this specific issue. But that is where sound judgement and the ability to analyze a situation and take appropriate action comes in. There was a definite need for a leader to take control of the situation.

 

[K_Z]

Are LE responsible for protecting and preserving forensic evidence? Wouldn't the sun have changed the condition of her body, which would also delay being able to get time of death?

The delay in arrival of the ME also prevented a number of additional measurements from being done that would have furthered narrowed the window of time of death. Such as body temperature measurements that would reflect algor mortis.

What I have a problem with is the apparent early assumption (beginning with Adam Shacknai, and continuing) that RZ committed suicide. I would very much like to know if that is the way it was "framed" when LE contacted the ME to come to the scene, as in "we have an apparent/ presumed suicidal hanging."

Someone a while back posted tht the SD ME has about 13 deaths a day to process. RZ was discovered at about 7 a.m.-- when a new shift of ME staff was coming on. I find it beyond belief that there were a dozen other deaths/ homicides that took priority for 13+ hours before ANYONE from the ME's office could make it out to the Coronado mansion. The only explanation that might EVEN make sense is that someone from LE communicated that it was most likely a suicide....kind of a "no big rush situation. Get some coffee, and when you're available to come on out, we'd appreciate that, but really-- there's no rush. It's a suicidal hanging."

Was every single member of the SD ME office in court? Processing a homicide? Conducting an autopsy?

What in heck was SO PRESSING that NOT ONE single tech from the ME's office was available until 8 pm that night? Surely SOMEONE could have come out, even for a "look see" to see what they had going on, and make some decisions. Deplorable that not one single ME or technician came out for 13+ hours. Inexcusable.

Heads should have rolled. People should have been fired for that, IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

When AS allegedly attempted to revive RZ you would think he would have attempted to remove the rope from around her neck... and at least loosen it.... where was his DNA?

The first thing I would do was try to get that rope away from her throat along with the t-shirt... and I still can't figure out how he did that with a broken table leg... I would sure like to see a reconstruction of that scenario...

Have LE said CPR required loosening of the rope? It is impossible to speculate what any of us would do it differently if there is no evidence given to us about how "tight" the rope was around her throat.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

IMO
If the paparazzi "are a fact of life in Cali" shouldn't LE in Cali be better equipped to deal with them since they have more experience?

No one is blaming the cops for the actions of others. What is being questioned is their response to the actions of others or lack of response.

In life there are times when you just have to "wing it". Maybe there's not a procedure in the "cop manual" in San Diego for this specific issue. But that is where sound judgement and the ability to analyze a situation and take appropriate action comes in. There was a definite need for a leader to take control of the situation.

I don't believe any LE anywhere "deals with" paparazzi unless laws are broken. In RZ's case, none were, afaik.

JMO

 

[K_Z]

Have LE said CPR required loosening of the rope? It is impossible to speculate what any of us would do it differently if there is no evidence given to us about how "tight" the rope was around her throat.

JMO

The autopsy report pretty clearly indicates the rope was tight enough to kill her. Tight enough to crush her larynx. That seems pretty tight to me. And I "do" airways for a living.

She was witnessed hanging from her neck. Completely suspended.

Yes, CPR requires loosening of the rope of a hanging victim. No question there. None at all. <modsnip>

 

[K_Z]

I've not seen LE or the ME state that CPR on RZ required a loosening of the noose nor did they criticize AS' effort at CPR. That's a fact that I do accept.

JMO

I agree, MyBelle, that no one officially has criticized AS's CPR efforts. I don't criticize his efforts, either. She was clearly dead, with rigor mortis in her jaw (if not her extremities, which is unknown.) The "best" quality CPR would not have made a difference for Rebecca. She was gone by the time Adam cut her down and called 911. No matter how tight the noose was, or wasn't at that point.

However, my comment is that if genuine CPR attempts are tried in a hanging victim, then, yes, the noose must be loosened. To suggest otherwise is foolish. That is as foolish as thinking chest compressions on a decapitation victim would be effective.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I don't believe any LE anywhere "deals with" paparazzi unless laws are broken. In RZ's case, none were, afaik.

JMO

IMO
LE "deals with" the media all the time. LE has said they first looked at RZ's death as a homicide. They should have been able to control and protect their crime scene. LE agencies everywhere do this everyday. If the standard yellow tape can't keep the media out then perhaps other avenues should be explored.

 

[MyBelle]

I agree, MyBelle, that no one officially has criticized AS's CPR efforts. I don't criticize his efforts, either. She was clearly dead, with rigor mortis in her jaw (if not her extremities, which is unknown.) The "best" quality CPR would not have made a difference for Rebecca. She was gone by the time Adam cut her down and called 911. No matter how tight the noose was, or wasn't at that point.

However, my comment is that if genuine CPR attempts are tried in a hanging victim, then, yes, the noose must be loosened. To suggest otherwise is foolish. That is as foolish as thinking chest compressions on a decapitation victim would be effective.

My point was that I never saw the noose or the body so I'm not about to speculate about what I would have done. I will continue to hold the opinion that any CPR attempt is much better than no attempt at all. AS was not a medical professional.

JMO