"Cover her face"

[K_Z]

My point was that I never saw the noose or the body so I'm not about to speculate about what I would have done. I will continue to hold the opinion that any CPR attempt is much better than no attempt at all. AS was not a medical professional.

JMO

At last we agree about some aspect of this case!

I will still hold that any REASONABLE person would be at least somewhat "concerned" about how tight the noose was on a cut down hanging victim, though I concede to your comments that you might not be as concerned as others might be.

"I will continue to hold the opinion that any CPR attempt is much better than no attempt at all" -- I agree there, too! <modsnip>
I'm so glad we can finally agree on something of substance in this case!

 

[screecher]

That is true that AS was not a medical professional. He was adept presumably as a boat captain at knot tying.

Also adept with cutting rope.

 

[freespeech]

The delay in arrival of the ME also prevented a number of additional measurements from being done that would have furthered narrowed the window of time of death. Such as body temperature measurements that would reflect algor mortis.

What I have a problem with is the apparent early assumption (beginning with Adam Shacknai, and continuing) that RZ committed suicide. I would very much like to know if that is the way it was "framed" when LE contacted the ME to come to the scene, as in "we have an apparent/ presumed suicidal hanging."

Someone a while back posted tht the SD ME has about 13 deaths a day to process. RZ was discovered at about 7 a.m.-- when a new shift of ME staff was coming on. I find it beyond belief that there were a dozen other deaths/ homicides that took priority for 13+ hours before ANYONE from the ME's office could make it out to the Coronado mansion. The only explanation that might EVEN make sense is that someone from LE communicated that it was most likely a suicide....kind of a "no big rush situation. Get some coffee, and when you're available to come on out, we'd appreciate that, but really-- there's no rush. It's a suicidal hanging."

Was every single member of the SD ME office in court? Processing a homicide? Conducting an autopsy?

What in heck was SO PRESSING that NOT ONE single tech from the ME's office was available until 8 pm that night? Surely SOMEONE could have come out, even for a "look see" to see what they had going on, and make some decisions. Deplorable that not one single ME or technician came out for 13+ hours. Inexcusable.

Heads should have rolled. People should have been fired for that, IMO.

If a new investigation is done here then I believe the AG should ask for ME work logs and death stats for 7/11/11. That should tell if there was a legit reason why no one showed up for 13+ hours.

 

[screecher]

If a new investigation is done here then I believe the AG should ask for ME work logs and death stats for 7/11/11. That should tell if there was a legit reason why no one showed up for 13+ hours.

Absolutely. I so agree. Where I live, if a ME is not available, another is called in from the next county over. It is unheard of what happened with Rebecca.

 

[iSleuth]

The autopsy report pretty clearly indicates the rope was tight enough to kill her. Tight enough to crush her larynx. That seems pretty tight to me. And I "do" airways for a living.

She was witnessed hanging from her neck. Completely suspended.

Yes, CPR requires loosening of the rope of a hanging victim. No question there. None at all. <modsnip>

Wondering. Could damage like that ( crushed larynx )present itself from trauma from CPR being done on someone who was not flat on the ground ie. had a noose around their neck and their hands bound behind their back when chest compression is taking place? Aren't you supposed to lay flat to open airway first? ( A, B, C)

 

[screecher]

All LE have procedures and processes they must follow in investigations. They are audited...

JMO

You said you are in LE. Perhaps you could share with us just exactly who conducts the audit? Is it done internally?

TIA

 

[freespeech]

Wondering. Could damage like that ( crushed larynx )present itself from trauma from CPR being done on someone who was not flat on the ground ie. had a noose around their neck and their hands bound behind their back when chest compression is taking place? Aren't you supposed to lay flat to open airway first? ( A, B, C)

Imo, her crushed throat, periorbital, oral and facial petechiae and facial congestion indicate she was strangled first. She also had a thinner ligature mark below the rope ligature mark.

Imo, the hanging was done to hide the strangulation evidence in an attempt to make the murder to look like Rebecca killed herself.

Rebecca did not have any injury to her cervical spine which would have been expected from the long drop hanging (9 feet 2 inches) that she allegedly experienced.

And no, the injuries definitely did not come from Adam performing CPR incorrectly. I doubt that Adam actually did chest compressions. There was no hard evidence to that effect or any indication that he even knew CPR. Doing chest compression would not damage the throat but could break the sternum or ribs.
Imo.


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B54...NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5/edit?hl=en&pli=1

 

[screecher]

Imo, her crushed throat, periorbital, oral and facial petechiae and facial congestion indicate she was strangled first. She also had a thinner ligature mark below the rope ligature mark.

Imo, the hanging was done to hide the strangulation evidence in an attempt to make the murder to look like Rebecca killed herself.

Rebecca did not have any injury to her cervical spine which would have been expected from the long drop hanging (9 feet 2 inches) that she allegedly experienced.

And no, the injuries definitely did not come from Adam performing CPR incorrectly. I doubt that Adam actually did chest compressions. There was no hard evidence to that effect or any indication that he even knew CPR. Doing chest compression would not damage the throat but could break the sternum or ribs.
Imo.


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B54...NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5/edit?hl=en&pli=1

Spot on

 

[FightTheOstrich]

When AS allegedly attempted to revive RZ you would think he would have attempted to remove the rope from around her neck... and at least loosen it.... where was his DNA?

The first thing I would do was try to get that rope away from her throat along with the t-shirt... and I still can't figure out how he did that with a broken table leg... I would sure like to see a reconstruction of that scenario...

IMO, I'm surprised LE hasn't explained this away with some crackpot story about how AS used all the extra gloves lying around to cut RZ down because he was squeamish or something.

 

[screecher]

IMO, I'm surprised LE hasn't explained this away with some crackpot story about how AS used all the extra gloves lying around to cut RZ down because he was squeamish or something.

BBM

:floorlaugh:

OMGoodness. :floorlaugh: I haven't heard that phrase in years!

My mother would tell my brothers and their friends she didn't want to listen to their CRACKPOT stories!

Blast from the past.

 

[justice be served]

IMO, I'm surprised LE hasn't explained this away with some crackpot story about how AS used all the extra gloves lying around to cut RZ down because he was squeamish or something.

FTO - you bring up a good perspective view. Even if an individual knew nothing about either case, the press conference was less than compelling on SDSO's validity in "selling" their rulings. And because of that, once the evidence was released and so very many questions were apparent, SDSO's responses were lame at best and served only to reinforce the weak investigation. Not one of their better career moments for any of them. I would have to think those that may have been ramrodded with conclusions from above must have trouble sleeping at night.

 

[Tink56]

You said you are in LE. Perhaps you could share with us just exactly who conducts the audit? Is it done internally?

TIA

In LE???? Is this true MyBelle? Are you a registered expert? I had no idea.

TIA

 

[justice be served]

In LE???? Is this true MyBelle? Are you a registered expert? I had no idea.

TIA

MyBelle is not listed as a verified insider or professional law enforcement on the list of those who are.

 

[Bonepile]

Friday in Wyoming a man killed his father's girlfriend, his father and himself. The girlfriend's body lay outside for 11 hours as described ...

"Back at his home, girlfriend H A&#8217;s body lay in front of the house for 11 hours, neighbor H M told the Tribune. A, 42, was barefoot and her midriff was visible, M said. Authorities didn&#8217;t cover her body."

Must be the way law enforcement is doing it these days.

 

[Carioca]

Friday in Wyoming a man killed his father's girlfriend, his father and himself. The girlfriend's body lay outside for 11 hours as described ...

"Back at his home, girlfriend H A’s body lay in front of the house for 11 hours, neighbor H M told the Tribune. A, 42, was barefoot and her midriff was visible, M said. Authorities didn’t cover her body."

Must be the way law enforcement is doing it these days.

Thank you Bonepile for bringing this back into the forefront.
A question though: It sounds like the girlfriend's body was left out to the elements and in public view for 11 hours, but what about the father and the killer? Any idea how their bodies were handled before ME arrived?
TYA

 

[Bonepile]

Thank you Bonepile for bringing this back into the forefront.
A question though: It sounds like the girlfriend's body was left out to the elements and in public view for 11 hours, but what about the father and the killer? Any idea how their bodies were handled before ME arrived?
TYA

No unfortunately their bodies were in a classroom at the Community College, the students present were interviewed, but nothing else has been
said. All of this is very sad.

 

[bourne]

Friday in Wyoming a man killed his father's girlfriend, his father and himself. The girlfriend's body lay outside for 11 hours as described ...

"Back at his home, girlfriend H A’s body lay in front of the house for 11 hours, neighbor H M told the Tribune. A, 42, was barefoot and her midriff was visible, M said. Authorities didn’t cover her body."

Must be the way law enforcement is doing it these days.

I hope the Coronado LE did not set a precedent for other LE departments around the country to follow.

 

[Bonepile]

I hope the Coronado LE did not set a precedent for other LE departments around the country to follow.

I spoke with a friend who is retired from a police dept. (20 years back) and he said back then the first thing they did was cover the body. Guess times and procedures have changed.

 

[SwampMama]

As a certified first responder, the deceased is always covered or hidden from view of the curiosity of onlookers even if we have to stad in a circle holding tarps for an hour. The victim, regardless of how they died, are still a human being, to be treated with dignity and respect, and to have their privacy protected, as well as their families and loved ones.
Ah but what do I know anyway, we are not paid, we are fully certified and experienced volunteers with years of training and will do anything in the line of duty whether it is "our job" or not. Seems that sometimes those who are paid simply shrug and say "That's not my job, I don't get paid to do that".
It may not be our job to wash the blood away after a murder or suicide or to pick up the pieces of brain matter from someone's yard where a child was crushed/ killed by a drunk driver, but we do it anyway. I guess we just have a measure of compassion, empathy and standards that just cant be taught or bought.
Have you ever sucked blackened mucous out of a dying cats nose, trying to get it breath again so you can give it oxygen? That's not in the job description either but volunteers will do it.
Sorry I get so worked up about this but it was just unbelievable that they could even erect a small tent over Rebecca to protect her from prying eyes, news helicopters and flies and bugs looking to invade her body.
To this day, it just strikes me as so sad ind insensitive that she was allowed to just lay there that way.

 

[Inparadise]

I hope the Coronado LE did not set a precedent for other LE departments around the country to follow.

I think that it was SDSO's doing.........IMO.